1889 CC Morgan Dollar an exception for a cleaned coin? I was thinking so. Any opinions welcome. 0

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/24/2023 at 6:59 PM, RWB said:

Those are some of the most unnatural coin photos I've seen since I last looked at ebay....  Doesn't PCGS make photos before encapsulation?

Here's something a little more realistic..... However, after looking more closely, the coin might be better than my first impression. There's light wear and luster disturbance, yet it might be visually better in-hand.

RE: My coin collection. It's almost non-existent. I buy for research, then dispose of when the work is done. Can't afford to hold. A nice Saudi 1-sovereign gold disc has been posted here and on PCGS.

That's pretty cool that you buy for research. Are you in the process of making some kind of book or something?

Didn't know if you would go through all that just for enjoyment. Either way pretty awesome and impressive!

Those pictures are from GC and when you look up to verify. I appreciate all the info.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:55 PM, EagleRJO said:

Every once in a while a big stash of Morgans is discovered, like the more recent NY Bank and Great Southern hoards. And look at what happened with the 1903-O Morgans, that had a higher mintage but very low availability or estimated number of "survivors", which was formally the "king" until a stash of them was discovered.  Imagine if you dropped a boatload of cash on one before the discovery, and them BAM you just have a somewhat better than average value Morgan at a monumental loss.

The 1903-O's were more of a "new" hoard that nobody was aware of and really crushed the market.  Most of the others, like the NY Bank and Redfield Hoards, were previously purchased coins on a relatively smaller scale which really didn't change the market as I understand it. 

But large, unknown supplies can change the pricing structure.  That's what happened with the 1960's Treasury Morgan hoards.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:08 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Those pictures are from GC and when you look up to verify. I appreciate all the info.

GC and HA both have great pics, Ebay's are all over the place.

[RWB]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:08 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

That's pretty cool that you buy for research. Are you in the process of making some kind of book or something?

Didn't know if you would go through all that just for enjoyment. Either way pretty awesome and impressive!

Those pictures are from GC and when you look up to verify. I appreciate all the info.

If you do an internet search you'll find my books and articles listed.

Edited August 25, 2023 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/25/2023 at 8:08 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

That's pretty cool that you buy for research. Are you in the process of making some kind of book or something?

Roger is a voluminous publisher...multiple books, articles, etc.

We have THE definitive thread on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles thanks to his contributions here and also via his book (2018).  Even if you don't collect the coins, you might find the back-and-forth interesting (it's also one of our largest threads).

[Sandon]

    Also, take note of the following topic:

 

[Just Bob]

On 8/25/2023 at 2:22 AM, EagleRJO said:

I think they are interchangeable, and bolls is what the ANA grading standard refers to them as, but most everyone else including the TPG's and VAM World refer to them as blossoms so I usually go with that.

VAM World - Anatomy of the Morgan Dollar

 

That looks nothing like a cotton blossom. Truth be told, it doesn't look very much like a boll, either. I'm not sure what Mr. Morgan was looking at when he designed this.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Just Bob

[EagleRJO]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:32 PM, Just Bob said:

That looks nothing like a cotton blossom ... I'm not sure what Mr. Morgan was looking at when he designed this.

Yea, I don't really know either.  Maybe if you looked at smaller blossoms from the side like the attached.  I still don't know what the curved somewhat horizontal lines are suppose to be, but maybe that's intended to represent the division between the brown and white portions.

Edited August 26, 2023 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:23 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The 1903-O's were more of a "new" hoard that nobody was aware of and really crushed the market.  Most of the others, like the NY Bank and Redfield Hoards, were previously purchased coins on a relatively smaller scale which really didn't change the market as I understand it.

Doesn't matter if it's a new or old hoard, the value of those coins were crushed by a discovered hoard consisting of dozens of bank bags, where previous "survival estimates" had figured most were melted.  So much for those survival estimates.  And the more recent hoards I mentioned did change vales, as around 10,000 to 20,000 mid to upper uncirculated grades from each hoard flooded the market.

I think the massive Redfield hoard at around 400,000 coins was an anomaly, and all it takes is a handful of bank bags with coins in pretty good condition and BAM there goes your super rare uncirculated Morgan you dropped boatloads of cash on.  If you look at the limited number of higher grade 1889-CC coins you should be able to get a feel for what a handful of bank bags with better coins would do to values.  That's the reason I would never drop a bunch of cash on say an uncirculated 1889-CC Morgan.

Edited August 26, 2023 by EagleRJO

[RWB]

Cotton flower (center) immature boll (upper left), mature boll (bottom). The coin depicts open cotton bolls. (Weevils are extra.)

[powermad5000]

I like the expanded discussion on the term used to describe the cotton bolls/blossoms. Thanks everybody who commented.

I bought one of the slabbed Morgans from the Lincoln Highway Hoard. The story was that he was a potato farmer who's farm was right off of Lincoln Highway in Pennsylvania. The barn the Morgans were stashed in was roughly 50 yards from the road. The farmer had passed away and the family found approximately 47 full bags of Morgans stashed in the barn. 47 x 1000 per bag approximately. Maybe not a "gigantic" stash, but most of what was in the bags were all MS and most grading between MS 62 - MS 64. There were some that graded out in the MS 65 - MS 67 range and if I am not mistaken there were a couple to a handful of MS 68's. Depending on the dates, maybe not enough to swing the prices in the market much, but it bought into question whether there are other such hoards yet to be discovered, so it possibly moderately tempered prices a bit.

[EagleRJO]

On 8/26/2023 at 12:20 AM, powermad5000 said:

I like the expanded discussion on the term used to describe the cotton bolls/blossoms. Thanks everybody who commented.

Yea, good observation that got at least me digging into the Morgan references I have and doing some google searches as that is one of my favorite coins.

On 8/26/2023 at 12:20 AM, powermad5000 said:

Depending on the dates, maybe not enough to swing the prices in the market much, but it bought into question whether there are other such hoards yet to be discovered, so it possibly moderately tempered prices a bit.

Depends on the dates and if there were previously a good number already graded in those ranges, unlike the former 1903-O king where prices got hammered or the 1889-CC being discussed which would be hammed by a hoard discovery.  But I agree the Lincoln Highway hoard, which I think was more like 8k coins in a chest, at least likely pushed prices down a bit.

Edited August 26, 2023 by EagleRJO

[GoldFinger1969]

I never heard of the Lincoln Highway Hoard....gonna have to do some DD. 

The 1903-O got crushed by the early-1960's Treasury Hoard.  Price went down 95-97%....not sure it ever got back up there ever again.  That's not a price decline to absorb a large, 1-time increase in supply of a few hundred or few thousand coins....that's a radical re-valuation of the entire market.

[powermad5000]

[powermad5000]

@EagleRJO yea, I must have read some rumor hype surrounding this hoard. It was 8000+ in a chest. But what I have read that there were several key dates in the find and some very high end specimens.