Diagnose/ Describe these coins. Errors? Not errors? What are they? Do you know? 2 2

[Mike Meenderink]

Coins 1-3 below give your best assessment:

[Hoghead515]

I cant tell without them in hand but just by the pictures the first one looks heavily stained and/or corroded. The second either has a missing clad layer or has been buried and heavily corroded. Most the missing clad layers ive seen has just been one side. I really think it just may be a heavily corroded quarter thats been buried at one time. Id have to see the weight of it. The third looks like a grease filled die. I want people to know these are just guesses. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Hoghead515

[Henri Charriere]

Undoubtedly, a trick question of some type for which the broad catch-all term P.M.D., lacking specificity, is apparently woefully inadequate.  (I don't know which of the two is worse: losing my "Rising Star" status here or # 1 Set Registry ranking elsewhere.)  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Spiffication

[Greenstang]

I don’t see a true error on any of them.  Nothing that can’t be attributed to some sort of PMD.
Please describe what you see as an error that happened during the striking of the coin.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Greenstang
Added wording

[zadok]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:35 AM, Greenstang said:

I don’t see a true error on any of them.  Nothing that can’t be attributed to some sort of PMD.
Please describe what you see as an error that happened during the striking of the coin.

...agree just common junk coins worth face value, waste of time opening these threads...he was here before diff name, but same garbage....

[VKurtB]

This OP is 100% pure troll and should be blocked by everyone. He contributes nothing of value. Which, by the way, describes all his coins on most of this threads (a few exceptions): nothing of value.

Edited August 4, 2023 by VKurtB

[RWB]

Diagnoses: Ordinary circulation damage and discoloration. No numismatic value at all.

Cure: Spend them.

Preventive Therapy: Stop watching Goo-Tube coin videos.

[VKurtB]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:25 AM, RWB said:

Diagnoses: Ordinary circulation damage and discoloration. No numismatic value at all.

Cure: Spend them.

Preventive Therapy: Stop watching Goo-Tube coin videos.

He’s a Californian snowboarder. He’s probably MAKING Goo-Tube coin videos.

[Mike Meenderink]

None of you here except Hoghead and a select few know anything about coins. It's laughable. Coin1: Clad layer stressed partial missing obv rev Initial error NOT PMD (the corrosion you see is from being in circulation) Coin2: Improperly annealed planchet  (The molecules of copper effervesced and caused the clad layer to fail due to being exposed to oxygen/ circulated) Initial error NOT PMD Coin3: Struck through grease obv rev (obvious) NOT PMD Zadok, RWB, Coinbuf, VKurtB etc.. are all complete coin fakes they have NO skills at all. These 3 coins are EASILY identified. LMFAO  

Edited August 6, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:10 AM, VKurtB said:

This OP is 100% pure troll and should be blocked by everyone. He contributes nothing of value. Which, by the way, describes all his coins on most of this threads (a few exceptions): nothing of value.

As you troll my post and contribute nothing of value... You really are a buffoon. Go back to judging Chucky Cheese Tokens at the County fair.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

On 8/4/2023 at 7:44 AM, zadok said:

...agree just common junk coins worth face value, waste of time opening these threads...he was here before diff name, but same garbage....

This coming from the guy that answers most newbies questions with "I don't know but I'm sure someone here will be able to help you" or as we see here parrots the answers from above in the post ..LMFAO@ Zadok

[J P M]

On 8/6/2023 at 12:53 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

None of you here except Hoghead and a select few know anything about coins. It's laughable. Coin1: Clad layer stressed partial missing obv rev Initial error NOT PMD (the corrosion you see is from being in circulation) Coin2: Improperly annealed planchet  (The molecules of copper effervesced and caused the clad layer to fail due to being exposed to oxygen/ circulated) Initial error NOT PMD Coin3: Struck through grease obv rev (obvious) NOT PMD Zadok, RWB, Coinbuf, VKurtB etc.. are all complete coin fakes they have NO skills at all. These 3 coins are EASILY identified. LMFAO  

Gee Mike, I don't see a lot of what you are describing. The members who you have a singled out have, So many years experience in the numismatic field. There biggest concern is that we as collectors try to give freely our knowledge of coins without misrepresentation. Looking at coin photo's is not the best to judge with but it is all we have to go buy. Looking at the coins you posted  I see environmentally staining of some kind on coin 1...  Coin 2 looks like it was in the dirt for a long time or soaking in a pool of chlorinated water ...... Coin 3 looks like a bad clad layer with a weak strike that shows bubbling and lines. These are my opinions on the coins posted. I roll hunt all the time and coins like these are in many rolls. If you want to save coins of this sort that is your choice, but I hope you don't sell coins like these as errors to unsuspecting customers. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by J P M

[ldhair]

The members here are correct and I feel the OP knows it. He is just trying to push peoples buttons. His answers are too wild to be considered.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:30 AM, J P M said:

Gee Mike, I don't see a lot of what you are describing. The members who you have a singled out have, So many years experience in the numismatic field. There biggest concern is that we as collectors try to give freely our knowledge of coins without misrepresentation. Looking at coin photo's is not the best to judge with but it is all we have to go buy. Looking at the coins you posted  I see environmentally staining of some kind on coin 1...  Coin 2 looks like it was in the dirt for a long time or soaking in a pool of chlorinated water ...... Coin 3 looks like a bad clad layer with a weak strike that shows bubbling and lines. These are my opinions on the coins posted. I roll hunt all the time and coins like these are in many rolls. If you want to save coins of this sort that is your choice, but I hope you don't sell coins like these as errors to unsuspecting customers. 

When an OP describes an improperly annealed planchet as being caused by copper molecules effervescing causing the clad layer to fail due to oxygen exposure while circulating it's time to walk away. The reason the OP is so destructive to the hobby is that there are accuracies wrapped in his 💩 sandwich. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 8/6/2023 at 6:26 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

When an OP describes an improperly annealed planchet as being caused by copper molecules effervescing causing the clad layer to fail due to oxygen exposure while circulating it's time to walk away. The reason the OP is so destructive to the hobby is that there are accuracies wrapped in his 💩 sandwich. 

You obviously know Jack about metallurgy. Bahahahaa

[Mike Meenderink]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:51 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

You obviously know Jack about metallurgy. Bahahahaa

I never said it was caused by it I said thats the process by which the coin deteriorates its caused by an improper annealment. Bahaha

[Mike Meenderink]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:30 AM, J P M said:

Gee Mike, I don't see a lot of what you are describing. The members who you have a singled out have, So many years experience in the numismatic field. There biggest concern is that we as collectors try to give freely our knowledge of coins without misrepresentation. Looking at coin photo's is not the best to judge with but it is all we have to go buy. Looking at the coins you posted  I see environmentally staining of some kind on coin 1...  Coin 2 looks like it was in the dirt for a long time or soaking in a pool of chlorinated water ...... Coin 3 looks like a bad clad layer with a weak strike that shows bubbling and lines. These are my opinions on the coins posted. I roll hunt all the time and coins like these are in many rolls. If you want to save coins of this sort that is your choice, but I hope you don't sell coins like these as errors to unsuspecting customers. 

None of those guys know about coins. They may know about their coins and been in this chat for years .. but they have no overall knowledge of coins in any deep realistic fashion. VKurtB is a complete self important blustering idiotic person, Coinbuf is a smart mouth brain impaired parrot, RWB thinks he's God and Frentucky Mike is dumber than a brick. If you guys read anything about coins except your own babbling comments to each other you would know these are all exactly what I said they are. They are mint errors with circulation wear and corrosion post minting.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[ldhair]

You should edit your post. The mods are not going to like your words. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:24 PM, ldhair said:

You should edit your post. The mods are not going to like your words. 

Nah I'll just let them read the thread. They will moderate as they have before in the opposite direction away from me. I am the OP and these guys that troll my posts with derogatory personal attacks get it right back x10. 

[Sandon]

  I joined this chat board a little over a year ago and to my knowledge have never even met any of the other participants in person. I have, however, collected and studied U.S. coins for over 52 years, have read extensively in this area, have been a member of the A.N.A. for 42 years, and have learned from a number of experienced collectors and dealers at coin shows, A.N.A. conventions, and coin club meetings. I have found that most of the participants referred to by the OP as not knowing anything about coins are in fact knowledgeable. I have learned some things from some of them and, hopefully, some of them have learned something from me. None of us purports to know everything about coins, especially mint errors, or never to be mistaken. 

   None of the coins posted by the OP, which are uncertified and claimed to be errors in his opinion alone, appears to me to exhibit a mint error either. In addition to expressing my own opinion, however, I will refer to the appropriate pages of error-ref.com regarding the types of errors that the OP professes the coins to be.

  1. This coin exhibits the type of reddish-brown discoloration that is all too familiar to anyone who has gone through accumulations of circulated copper-nickel and copper-nickel clad coins. It appears to be corrosion resulting from exposure to the earth or other environmental factors. The OP describes the coin as having "[c]lad layer stressed partial missing obv rev [sic] Initial error NOT PMD (the corrosion you see is from being in circulation)". The OP doesn't point out what parts of the obverse and/or reverse he claims are missing the clad layer rather than just being corroded or how one can distinguish between the areas affected by the error and those impacted by subsequent corrosion. A search on error-ref.com using the words "missing clad layer" returned the following results: Search Results for “missing clad layer” (error-ref.com). The only example shown that bears any resemblance whatsoever to the posted circulated 1999-D Georgia quarter is an uncirculated 1999-P Georgia quarter described as "struck on a planchet that was missing part of clad layer on the obverse":

Note how you can see the difference in thickness and distortion at the boundaries of the area missing the clad layer, especially where it intersects with the rim of the coin. The area missing the clad layer appears to be at a lower level than the area with the layer, as would be expected. Moreover, this type of error is described as "part of the obverse or reverse clad layer is missing from the planchet" and does not mention cases where portions of the clad layer has been missing from both sides of the coin. On the OP's coin some of the dark areas appear to be at a higher level than the lighter ones, indicating raised corrosion, not a missing clad layer.

   2.  This 1999-P Delaware quarter looks like it was spray painted, first with brown (primer?) and then with silver paint, some of which then rubbed off the highest points, but I'm speculating. Whatever happened to it, it doesn't look like anything that could have happened during the minting process. The OP describes it as "improperly annealed planchet  (The molecules of copper effervesced and caused the clad layer to fail due to being exposed to oxygen/ circulated) Initial error NOT PMD." Error-ref.com identifies certain "copper-nickel and Cu-Ni clad coins struck on planchets with a layer of copper on the surface" as having been struck on improperly annealed planchets.  Search Results for “improper annealing” (error-ref.com). However, none of the three nickels shown as examples of this phenomenon bears any resemblance to the OP's quarter. 

   3.  The uniformly grainy surfaces and weak details of this 2000-P Maryland quarter suggest to me that the coin was etched by acid. The OP contends that it is "obvious" that the coin was struck through grease. However, the coin doesn't resemble any of the photos or descriptions on error-ref.com of coins struck through "grease' or other compacted die fill material. Search Results for “struck through grease” (error-ref.com). These coins generally exhibit weak or missing details in the areas affected by the grease, not grainy surfaces.

   If the OP is so sure that he is correct and that all of us are wrong, I suggest that he submit these coins to a reputable grading service for error attribution or at least obtain written opinions about them from a recognized expert on mint errors His unsupported contentions as to these coins and the competence of the participants on this forum have proven nothing.

   

Edited August 6, 2023 by Sandon
for unknown reasons, some portions came out in italics

[Henri Charriere]

Mike, you have maligned some of the more prominent "seasoned veterans" who frequent this Forum. I do not believe any will dignify your remarks with a reply, so I will try to answer with a thought of my own. No hobby, much less profession, will volunteer information on the strength of the pixelated photography presented. In every pursuit in life whether it be coin collecting, forgeries, counterfeits, fires, autopsies, psychiatric examinations and even habeas corpus writs, ordering detaining authorities to produce the body (of the defendant) physically in court,  The "examiner," or cross-examiner, cannot render an opinion, decision or report, etc., absent an opportunity to examine the evidence personally, up close -- and in hand. We do the best we can with what is made avaiailable to us. Some of the responses you get may be direct and conclusive, but noted numismatists proceed with caution and would not wish to be quoted for attribution in the absence of substantive proof.  This is why you may get guarded, non-commital replies and referrals. The thrust of the hobby today is to encourage education and an exchange of information in the hope of minimizing risk. 

I should like to note for the record that beyond the OP's abrasive and direct manner of speaking, after an inordinate amount of time researching the issue, I can safely conclude that the words effervesced -- or for that matter, effervesce and the more colorful effervescent, are the very first times these terms have appeared on any Forum here since its inception. Man I love this place!  🤣

[Hoghead515]

On 8/6/2023 at 12:53 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

None of you here except Hoghead and a select few know anything about coins. 

Im not even on the same level as the other guys you named. Im still pretty much a newbie. Ive learned a whole lot the past couple years and learning more everyday but I couldnt hold the light for those few members you named.  They got decades more experience than I do. I look up to them as teachers. Most the things Ive  learned has been from them and a few others by staying active on this forum. 

[Henri Charriere]

I agree with you on Hoghead.  He has a lot of humble qualities that endear him to the membership. For years, I have been saying one member (you mentioned) has "unconditional immunity" to speak out as he wishes. The truth is he brings something to the table so he's an asset to the community with a storied past that most assuredly would pass a cursory background check.  Me? I am only as good as my last post and both me and the moderators know it. I have neither substance nor status or stature. I am simply tolerated and retained strictly for entertainment purposes. Now, you Mike shouldn't puff your chest out just yet. By incredibly fortuitous timing, you caught the Board moderators off guard. The thing that vexes me is how come you have not spoken up sooner?  I can only hope none of the combatants you've referred to by name take things personally. Here on out, I would advise C-A-U-T-I-O-N. Man I love this place!  Without it, I am nothing.

[ldhair]

Well said @Sandon

[zadok]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:23 PM, Sandon said:

  I joined this chat board a little over a year ago and to my knowledge have never even met any of the other participants in person. I have, however, collected and studied U.S. coins for over 52 years, have read extensively in this area, have been a member of the A.N.A. for 42 years, and have learned from a number of experienced collectors and dealers at coin shows, A.N.A. conventions, and coin club meetings. I have found that most of the participants referred to by the OP as not knowing anything about coins are in fact knowledgeable. I have learned some things from some of them and, hopefully, some of them have learned something from me. None of us purports to know everything about coins, especially mint errors, or never to be mistaken. 

   None of the coins posted by the OP, which are uncertified and claimed to be errors in his opinion alone, appears to me to exhibit a mint error either. In addition to expressing my own opinion, however, I will refer to the appropriate pages of error-ref.com regarding the types of errors that the OP professes the coins to be.

  1. This coin exhibits the type of reddish-brown discoloration that is all too familiar to anyone who has gone through accumulations of circulated copper-nickel and copper-nickel clad coins. It appears to be corrosion resulting from exposure to the earth or other environmental factors. The OP describes the coin as having "[c]lad layer stressed partial missing obv rev [sic] Initial error NOT PMD (the corrosion you see is from being in circulation)". The OP doesn't point out what parts of the obverse and/or reverse he claims are missing the clad layer rather than just being corroded or how one can distinguish between the areas affected by the error and those impacted by subsequent corrosion. A search on error-ref.com using the words "missing clad layer" returned the following results: Search Results for “missing clad layer” (error-ref.com). The only example shown that bears any resemblance whatsoever to the posted circulated 1999-D Georgia quarter is an uncirculated 1999-P Georgia quarter described as "struck on a planchet that was missing part of clad layer on the obverse":

Note how you can see the difference in thickness and distortion at the boundaries of the area missing the clad layer, especially where it intersects with the rim of the coin. The area missing the clad layer appears to be at a lower level than the area with the layer, as would be expected. Moreover, this type of error is described as "part of the obverse or reverse clad layer is missing from the planchet" and does not mention cases where portions of the clad layer has been missing from both sides of the coin. On the OP's coin some of the dark areas appear to be at a higher level than the lighter ones, indicating raised corrosion, not a missing clad layer.

   2.  This 1999-P Delaware quarter looks like it was spray painted, first with brown (primer?) and then with silver paint, some of which then rubbed off the highest points, but I'm speculating. Whatever happened to it, it doesn't look like anything that could have happened during the minting process. The OP describes it as "improperly annealed planchet  (The molecules of copper effervesced and caused the clad layer to fail due to being exposed to oxygen/ circulated) Initial error NOT PMD." Error-ref.com identifies certain "copper-nickel and Cu-Ni clad coins struck on planchets with a layer of copper on the surface" as having been struck on improperly annealed planchets.  Search Results for “improper annealing” (error-ref.com). However, none of the three nickels shown as examples of this phenomenon bears any resemblance to the OP's quarter. 

   3.  The uniformly grainy surfaces and weak details of this 2000-P Maryland quarter suggest to me that the coin was etched by acid. The OP contends that it is "obvious" that the coin was struck through grease. However, the coin doesn't resemble any of the photos or descriptions on error-ref.com of coins struck through "grease' or other compacted die fill material. Search Results for “struck through grease” (error-ref.com). These coins generally exhibit weak or missing details in the areas affected by the grease, not grainy surfaces.

   If the OP is so sure that he is correct and that all of us are wrong, I suggest that he submit these coins to a reputable grading service for error attribution or at least obtain written opinions about them from a recognized expert on mint errors His unsupported contentions as to these coins and the competence of the participants on this forum have proven nothing.

   

...i admire ur efforts to try n speak informatively to the OP but from his continued schizo rantings n ravings completely unrelated to numismatics i feel its a waste of ur considerable efforts but some other members will perhaps benefit...my previous experience with this same individual is that ignoring ignorance works best....

[Sandon]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:35 AM, zadok said:

some other members will perhaps benefit.

   That's primarily why I wrote it. I wouldn't want any new collectors to think that the corroded and altered coins posted by the OP are mint errors.

[Henri Charriere]

AFTER-ACTION REPORT

An outstanding thread, all things considered. Sometimes this Forum can use a little pizzazz. The alternative, as one learned member put it, is reverting to "Sleepy Hollow" (which predates my brief tenure) and who would want that? To the Forum's enduring credit it is the presence of the very members critiqued, by name, that has contributed to its greatness. My heartfelt thanks to the OP for choreographing this most memorable of debacles and, in so doing, bringing out the very best every member has to offer.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Correct spelling.