Administrator Ali E. Posted June 26, 2023 Administrator Share Posted June 26, 2023 Jan 2024: There have been no changes since July. Please read below for the latest information. Thank you. July 24, 2023 Update Since early June, the NGC Registry program has been unable to use CAC’s tool to verify whether a coin has received a CAC sticker. Therefore, there has been a score imbalance for CAC coins in the NGC Registry. Effective July 25, 2023, CAC-stickered coins will receive the same point score in the NGC Registry as coins certified by NGC and PCGS. This includes CAC coins that were already in the NGC Registry receiving a score "bonus;" those "extra" points for the CAC sticker will be removed. This change will help to ensure a more level playing field for all participants in the NGC Registry. NGC has been informed by CAC that the connectivity to their verification site will be resolved in the future. At that point, collectors should be able to verify their CAC-stickered coins again in the NGC Registry. (Then the CAC icon will appear again in the NGC Registry.) There will be no point "bonus" going forward for CAC stickers. NGC has not yet made any decision about whether to accept CAC-graded coins in the NGC Registry because the service is still not widely available. If and when there is a decision to accept CAC-graded/slabbed coins, we will post an announcement at that time. July 12, 2023 Update **The NGC Registry software connection to the CAC verification site is still severed. We will post any information as it becomes available. Thank you for your patience. It has recently come to our attention that the NGC Registry program is no longer able to access the CAC verification site. Therefore, we are unable to verify any newly added CAC coins nor award them any (additional) NGC Registry score points. We will post more information as it becomes available to us. Thank you for your patience. Walkerfan and AdamWL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddick Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Is this perhaps a temporary policy? Is it possible NGC will negate additional points already registered on CAC NGC/PCGS coins in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mayor Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Hopefully NGC can restore the link to the CAC database or, failing that, remove the CAC bonus for existing coins. Having a two-tiered system where "legacy" coins are given special treatment is not healthy and diminishes the legitimacy of the competitive aspect of the registry, similar to the failed NGC-only experiment of a few years ago when legacy PCGS coins were allowed to remain in competitive sets. AdamWL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Walkerfan Posted June 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 29, 2023 Maybe this is only temporary, as CAC is updating their website and going live with grading very soon. If it is permanent; it will affect PCGS, as well. NGC will always be the best registry set program out there, IMHO. Keep up the good work NGC!! Ali E., Henri Charriere and AdamWL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboelke Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 It may be due to the changes at CAC, in fact that is likely. It does become problematic if they never make the data available again. I'm sure they'll have their own variety of a registry - I wonder how that's going to play out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboelke Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 I just confirmed PCGS is experiencing the same thing. The opinion on their board is strongly leaning to CAC pulling the plug as they are now a direct competitor to PCGS and NGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 10:47 AM, braddick said: Is it possible NGC will negate additional points already registered on CAC NGC/PCGS coins in the future? In my opinion, they should. In fact, I don't think they should have ever awarded additional points for CAC coins in the first place. That was tantamount to admitting that their grading was not "up to par." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkerfan Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/30/2023 at 5:05 PM, Just Bob said: In my opinion, they should. In fact, I don't think they should have ever awarded additional points for CAC coins in the first place. That was tantamount to admitting that their grading was not "up to par." Well, then PCGS is guilty of the same thing. Everybody knows that CAC Coins sell for a higher premium…whether it be in NGC plastic OR in PCGS plastic. Mad King Eric 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Nice racket, if you can get it. Up until now, if I am reading this correctly -- and willing to incur member MF's wrath -- a gentleman (singular) sitting at a table accompanied by his grand-daughter, gives a coin a once-over, and with a simple nod passes it to his biggest fan who squeals with delight. And why shouldn't she? The entire concept is a lucrative construct. Ninety-nine point forty-four percent of the [grunt] work, grading, is already done! Who gets penalized for withholding a sticker? Nobody! Review? By whom? The gentleman who presides over the ritual would rightly recuse himself on the grounds his participation would constitute a conflict of interest. (The child would still get an extra helping of vanilla ice cream just for being a good sport.) If I were inclined to change anything, it would be the shapes and colors of the stickers. Mine would be stars and, in lieu of green, I would choose silver. The other two would be gold and platinum. I regard stickers as one would a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval or Better Business Bureau rating. The beautiful thing about this hobby is there is something in it for everyone. Enjoy! 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) On 6/30/2023 at 5:47 PM, Walkerfan said: Well, then PCGS is guilty of the same thing. Everybody knows that CAC Coins sell for a higher premium…whether it be in NGC plastic OR in PCGS plastic. You're right. PCGS is guilty of the same thing. I'm not arguing against CAC coins being worth a premium in the marketplace. I just don't think that should have translated to additional registry points, and I don't think that either grading service should have gone down that particular rabbit hole. It was a lose/lose situation from the beginning, in my opinion. I don't have a registry set with either service, so I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am just offering an outsider's opinion. Edited July 1, 2023 by Just Bob better wording Walkerfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 (edited) On 6/26/2023 at 3:26 PM, Ali E. said: It has recently come to our attention that the NGC Registry program is no longer able to access the CAC verification site. Therefore, we are unable to verify any newly added CAC coins nor award them any (additional) NGC Registry score points. We will post more information as it becomes available to us. Thank you for your patience. July 12, 2023 Update **The NGC Registry software connection to the CAC verification site is still severed. We are in communication with CAC now. Our senior team will decide a plan soon to ensure that any/all coins are treated equitably in the NGC Registry either with or without a score bonus for all. We will post any information as it becomes available. Thank you for your patience. This update doesn't sound very hopeful. Edited July 12, 2023 by Coinbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 7:51 AM, The Mayor said: Hopefully NGC can restore the link to the CAC database or, failing that, remove the CAC bonus for existing coins. Having a two-tiered system where "legacy" coins are given special treatment is not healthy and diminishes the legitimacy of the competitive aspect of the registry, similar to the failed NGC-only experiment of a few years ago when legacy PCGS coins were allowed to remain in competitive sets. My personal opinion is that the NGC registry should be for NGC-certified coins only; if it happens that NGC and CAC go their separate ways and those with CAC-stickered coins lose the associated bonus, then PCGS-certified coins should be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braddick Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/14/2023 at 1:29 AM, Legionary1 said: My personal opinion is that the NGC registry should be for NGC-certified coins only; if it happens that NGC and CAC go their separate ways and those with CAC-stickered coins lose the associated bonus, then PCGS-certified coins should be removed. Ouch. You're harshing my mellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/14/2023 at 1:29 AM, Legionary1 said: My personal opinion is that the NGC registry should be for NGC-certified coins only; if it happens that NGC and CAC go their separate ways and those with CAC-stickered coins lose the associated bonus, then PCGS-certified coins should be removed. I fail to see the correlation between these two issues, CAC is not PCGS and PCGS is not CAC. And given the problems and backlash that NGC received the last time they paused the use of PCGS graded coins in the registry I would really doubt NGC would repeat that mistake again. Plus at the winter FUN NGC announced that CAC graded coins would be allowed to be used in the NGC registry, if NGC were to once again disallow PCGS graded coins then by default they would also need to backtrack that recent statement and disallow CAC graded coins too. Honestly none of that would be a good look for NGC. Sandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sandon Posted July 15, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2023 The only reason that registry sets are feasible for me is that NGC allows both NGC and PCGS graded U.S. coins on its registry. I participate in the registry primarily for educational reasons and include photos of my coins, so I can show other collectors some of my better coins without having the security risks inherent in transporting them. I own a somewhat greater number of PCGS graded than NGC graded coins, but it wouldn't be worthwhile to have them on separate registries. I've submitted some pieces to NGC primarily to include them in the registry and would be unlikely to submit any more if I no longer participated in the registry. I wish that the major grading services (NGC, PCGS, CAC, and perhaps ANACS, which doesn't have a registry), could cooperate to create a single coin registry. This would reduce the overhead associated with operating the registry for each service and be more convenient for collectors. (The services could still issue separate prizes for the "best" or otherwise notable collections of coins in their respective holders.) I'm a realist, however, and doubt that this will ever happen. D.G.C, rons, Coinbuf and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/15/2023 at 12:35 PM, Sandon said: I wish that the major grading services (NGC, PCGS, CAC, and perhaps ANACS, which doesn't have a registry), could cooperate to create a single coin registry. This would reduce the overhead associated with operating the registry for each service and be more convenient for collectors. (The services could still issue separate prizes for the "best" or otherwise notable collections of coins in their respective holders.) I'm a realist, however, and doubt that this will ever happen. An excellent idea; I'd definitely be in favor of that.... Sandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/15/2023 at 11:01 AM, Coinbuf said: I fail to see the correlation between these two issues, CAC is not PCGS and PCGS is not CAC. And given the problems and backlash that NGC received the last time they paused the use of PCGS graded coins in the registry I would really doubt NGC would repeat that mistake again. Plus at the winter FUN NGC announced that CAC graded coins would be allowed to be used in the NGC registry, if NGC were to once again disallow PCGS graded coins then by default they would also need to backtrack that recent statement and disallow CAC graded coins too. Honestly none of that would be a good look for NGC. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 On 7/15/2023 at 12:35 PM, Sandon said: I wish that the major grading services (NGC, PCGS, CAC, and perhaps ANACS, which doesn't have a registry), could cooperate to create a single coin registry. That was the goal of the ANA registry that NGC was working on providing. Sadly, I suspect that when NGC was bought by wall street that was scrapped as too expensive with no positive impact on the bottom line. It is too bad as I would have loved to see how that would have looked and worked. Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numisport Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Wait a second, I can access it. Why can't NGC ? Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 On 7/18/2023 at 9:54 AM, numisport said: Wait a second, I can access it. Why can't NGC ? That is the question, unfortunately there has been no clarification from either NGC, PCGS, or CAC as to what or where the issue is. There are threads on all three forums on this problem with nary a peep about what or where the problem is. You are correct that any individual can do a cert lookup on the CAC website, so why not the TPG's. There has been speculation that the problem lies with the recent website name change at CAC, however, that domain name change would be a very simple programmer fix, something any entry level programmer could do in a very short amount of time. So is it as simple as allocating the few minutes to change a line or two of code at the TPG end; or is there something else going on. The continued silence by all parties is rather frustrating and only leads to more speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 7:51 AM, The Mayor said: Hopefully NGC can restore the link to the CAC database or, failing that, remove the CAC bonus for existing coins. Having a two-tiered system where "legacy" coins are given special treatment is not healthy and diminishes the legitimacy of the competitive aspect of the registry, similar to the failed NGC-only experiment of a few years ago when legacy PCGS coins were allowed to remain in competitive sets. If the CAC bonus is to be removed, it should be for all coins with the sticker. None should be allowed to have their bonus at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Well, it seems as if NGC had decided the issue with regards to the CAC bonus; in checking the point values for 1940 coins, the line showing the point value of coins with CAC stickers is no longer there, and that sets with coins that have the CAC sticker have had their point values reduced. What sayeth the hive mind on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bboelke Posted July 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2023 Got this email last evening... NGC Updates CAC Sticker Scores in the NGC Registry The NGC Registry is a free online resource from NGC where collectors can display their coins and compete with other collectors from around the world for prizes and recognition. Nearly 33,000 collectors display a total of more than 1.7 million coins in the NGC Registry. The NGC Registry currently accepts coins certified by NGC and most US coins certified by PCGS. In addition, recognition is provided for US coins that have received a sticker from CAC. Effective July 25, CAC-stickered coins now receive the same point score in the NGC Registry as coins certified by NGC and PCGS. This change helps to ensure a more level playing field for all participants in the NGC Registry. NGC plans to continue to recognize whether a US coin has received a CAC sticker. However, since early June, NGC has been unable to use CAC’s tool to verify whether a coin has received a CAC sticker. NGC has been informed by CAC that this issue will be resolved soon, at which point the NGC Registry will resume recognition of coins that have received a CAC sticker. Henri Charriere, AdamWL and Mad King Eric 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamWL Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 It's not even recognizing the green bean on my latest cac'd addition. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 @AdamWL-- On 7/29/2023 at 3:10 PM, bboelke said: since early June, NGC has been unable to use CAC’s tool to verify whether a coin has received a CAC sticker. NGC has been informed by CAC that this issue will be resolved soon, at which point the NGC Registry will resume recognition of coins that have received a CAC sticker. This is why the CAC sticker isn't being recognized, which started this topic in the first place. Ali E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 On 7/28/2023 at 7:06 PM, Legionary1 said: Well, it seems as if NGC had decided the issue with regards to the CAC bonus; in checking the point values for 1940 coins, the line showing the point value of coins with CAC stickers is no longer there, and that sets with coins that have the CAC sticker have had their point values reduced. What sayeth the hive mind on this? This appears to be a political move rather than one designed to enhance the registry or collectors. As some may be aware most of the long-term high-level leadership at NGC have passed away or are no longer with the company. With the leadership changes has come a different mindset in regard to the registry and collectors in general and a clear shift in how NGC now perceives CAC and CAC grading as a threat to their business. CAC approved coins sell for more in the marketplace in a very high percentage of sales, the NGC registry awards points that generally equate to current market (and guide) pricing. So awarding extra points for CAC approved coins was perfectly logical, imo. While I expect it should be clear that I'm not a fan of this change, it is not the end of the world. But it makes me wonder what is coming next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 1:11 PM, Coinbuf said: This appears to be a political move rather than one designed to enhance the registry or collectors. A wise man once said that politics is the last refuge of fools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legionary1 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/29/2023 at 1:11 PM, Coinbuf said: But it makes me wonder what is coming next. Removing PCGS-certified coins from the registry, mayhap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 On 7/30/2023 at 4:49 PM, Legionary1 said: Removing PCGS-certified coins from the registry, mayhap? Anything is possible, remember that with the passing of Mr. Lange and the retirement of Mr. Salzberg there is new leadership at NGC. It is not clear what that new leadership wants or has plans (if any) for the NGC registry. I just hope that they don't make changes just for the sake of making changes, although that is sort of how this recent change feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/30/2023 at 7:48 PM, Legionary1 said: A wise man once said that politics is the last refuge of fools... [Actually, "patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels," as attributed to Samuel Johnson in 1775.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
