I'm Taking the NGC-Taught Course at ANA Summer Seminar 0

[VKurtB]

One of the welcome screens talks about a course being taught by Ben Wenger and Rick Montgomery at the ANA Summer Seminar this June. Its title is Advanced Study of World Coinage. I signed up and paid for it today. 4 straight hardcore days of attribution, authentication, and numismatic forensics. By the way, a DIFFERENT course, #28, includes a shlep up into the mountains to visit David Carr at the Moonlight Mint. That ought to shiver the timbers of some folks on here. @RWB, call your office.

Edited April 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[Fenntucky Mike]

Sounds interesting. I'm going to take a look at this.... 

 

[Henri Charriere]

To the Hon. V. Kurt B:

When an opportune moment presents itself, may I prevail upon you to kindly let it be known to your friends, associates and casual acquaintances that there is a gentleman in New York who is prepared to make them a generous offer for a PCGS-certified MS-67  1910 - 1913 or 1914 French 20-franc gold Rooster a/k/a or Coq Marianne.  [Universal references:  KM: 857 GADOURY: 1064a. F-535.]  I would be very much obliged.

Sincerely,

HENRI CHARRIERE

 

[VKurtB]

On 4/20/2023 at 8:17 PM, Henri Charriere said:

To the Hon. V. Kurt B:

When an opportune moment presents itself, may I prevail upon you to kindly let it be known to your friends, associates and casual acquaintances that there is a gentleman in New York who is prepared to make them a generous offer for a PCGS-certified MS-67  1910 - 1913 or 1914 French 20-franc gold Rooster a/k/a or Coq Marianne.  [Universal references:  KM: 857 GADOURY: 1064a. F-535.]  I would be very much obliged.

Sincerely,

HENRI CHARRIERE

 

Just so I understand, you need PCGS, MS-67 (or better), and the years 1910 through 1914 consecutive? Do I have that right? I keep a written notebook for pieces friends and associates are looking for. Are you looking for just one, or multiple dates? I am also going "across the pond" in September. Part of my trip is Coinex 2023 in the Mayfair district of London, September 29 & 30. Then I'm going to Berlin in January or February 2024.

Edited April 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:01 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Sounds interesting. I'm going to take a look at this.... 

 

The one I'm doing is course #14.

[Jason Abshier]

@VKurtB I look forward to you come back on here with a wealth of knowledge you’ll gain after this course …

Please ask what determines “SP” remark along with a grade on medals ? I’d like know how they come up with that assigned remark when grading and authenticating world medals (exonumia) if you’ll be looking at medals during this course 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Jason Abshier

[Fenntucky Mike]

https://www.money.org/summer-seminar 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike

[VKurtB]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:15 AM, Jason Abshier said:

@VKurtB I look forward to you come back on here with a wealth of knowledge you’ll gain after this course …

Please ask what determines “SP” remark along with a grade on medals ? I’d like know how they come up with that assigned remark when grading and authenticating world medals (exonumia) if you’ll be looking at medals during this course 

@Jason Abshier, as you know, I'm NOT shy about speaking up. However, the focus of the course will be on legal tender (and previous legal tender) coins. I can only HOPE medals will be included. I promise you that with the instructors involved, and the "spare time bull sessions" that are built into the schedule, I WILL BE bringing up the entire subject of SP (and SMS) designations. I believe the coins and/or medals that one strikes as a voluntary part of the British Royal Mint tour MUST BE designated as SP. They are struck FOUR TIMES on a medal press, but not with polished dies. I will warn you that I am 100% NGC-focused. I really don't give a rip what they do in Southern California (ATS).

Edited April 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:57 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

https://www.money.org/summer-seminar 

THAT'S THE ONE!! I'm in that class. While I was employed by the Pennsylvania General Assembly, going to Summer Seminar was a non-starter. The end of June was budget deadline and we had to be available literally around the clock to call emergency committee meetings to "buy" members' votes by passing their pet bills out of committee. I once had to call a committee meeting at 2AM on a Sunday morning. That was by far the craziest one. Now that I'm retired and no longer just scraping by, I can work on my bucket list.

Edited April 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:43 PM, VKurtB said:

THAT'S THE ONE!! I'm in that class. While I was employed by the Pennsylvania General Assembly, going to Summer Seminar was a non-starter. The end of June was budget deadline and we had to be available literally around the clock to call emergency committee meetings to "buy" members' votes by passing their pet bills out of committee. I once had to call a committee meeting at 2AM on a Sunday morning. That was by far the craziest one. Now that I'm retired and no longer just scraping by, I can work on my bucket list.

...the secret is to have those member's votes in ur pocket before they get elected...good luck on ur bucket list, im still working on my bidet list....

[VKurtB]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:17 PM, zadok said:

...the secret is to have those member's votes in ur pocket before they get elected...good luck on ur bucket list, im still working on my bidet list....

At age 68 (the average age of demise for males in Marshall County, Alabama), it's time to work on the list. I think know why the life expectancy is so low here. 1) These people are horrendous road menaces (New Jersey drivers on meth), and 2) The typical health insurance coverage here really stinks. I've had three doctors tell me they've never even HEARD OF coverage like mine.

[Zebo]

Looking for anything special at Coinex? The summer course sounds great. 

[VKurtB]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:20 PM, Zebo said:

Looking for anything special at Coinex? The summer course sounds great. 

Yes, I'm looking for what I found in England in 2019: stuff I can't find here. And while I don't even like to do business over the Internet domestically, I sure as heck would never do it internationally.

Edited April 21, 2023 by VKurtB

[RWB]

Aha! The "Beginner's Course on Counterfeiting."

As if they'll teach "gradeflation" and the other dark arts.

[Jason Abshier]

On 4/21/2023 at 12:32 PM, VKurtB said:

@Jason Abshier, as you know, I'm NOT shy about speaking up. However, the focus of the course will be on legal tender (and previous legal tender) coins. I can only HOPE medals will be included. I promise you that with the instructors involved, and the "spare time bull sessions" that are built into the schedule, I WILL BE bringing up the entire subject of SP (and SMS) designations. I believe the coins and/or medals that one strikes as a voluntary part of the British Royal Mint tour MUST BE designated as SP. They are struck FOUR TIMES on a medal press, but not with polished dies. I will warn you that I am 100% NGC-focused. I really don't give a rip what they do in Southern California (ATS).

@VKurtB is there going to be a graduation party after you graduate from the course ? Inviting all of us ? 😂

[Henri Charriere]

INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS...

VKurtB:  "I warn you that I am 100% NGC-focused.  I really don't give a rip what they do in Southern California (ATS)."

🐓:  Too bad the late great member Oldhoopster wasn't around long enough to be provided a possible clew as to Q.A.'s oft-repeated, off-hand quip made in support of his assertion that the OP enjoyed unconditional immunity on this Forum.

H.C.:  The gentleman was a notably erudite contender with an admirable library to match.  He never dignified a baseless post without challenging it, and stated unequivocally he had never ignored anyone and, in addressing Q.A directly, stated: "And I am not about to start now." He kept his word. Bowing out gracefully was more his dignified style. Records indicate he rode the circuit, at will, for twenty years.  He will be sorely missed.

P.S.  I still maintain, incorrectly perhaps, that it is physically impossible to hold two standard-sized basketballs outstretched at arms' length parallel to the ground, with two hands.

[Note to Moderation:  You may remove this post as is your prerogative.]

[VKurtB]

On 4/22/2023 at 10:29 AM, Jason Abshier said:

@VKurtB is there going to be a graduation party after you graduate from the course ? Inviting all of us ? 😂

I hear there is, and a banquet as well.

[VKurtB]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:13 PM, Henri Charriere said:

INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS...

VKurtB:  "I warn you that I am 100% NGC-focused.  I really don't give a rip what they do in Southern California (ATS)."

🐓:  Too bad the late great member Oldhoopster wasn't around long enough to be provided a possible clew as to Q.A.'s oft-repeated, off-hand quip made in support of his assertion that the OP enjoyed unconditional immunity on this Forum.

H.C.:  The gentleman was a notably erudite contender with an admirable library to match.  He never dignified a baseless post without challenging it, and stated unequivocally he had never ignored anyone and, in addressing Q.A directly, stated: "And I am not about to start now." He kept his word. Bowing out gracefully was more his dignified style. Records indicate he rode the circuit, at will, for twenty years.  He will be sorely missed.

P.S.  I still maintain, incorrectly perhaps, that it is physically impossible to hold two standard-sized basketballs outstretched at arms' length parallel to the ground, with two hands.

[Note to Moderation:  You may remove this post as is your prerogative.]

Oh Quintus, err, Henri, you should not be surprised at my preferences. There are two competing cultures in this country. One has New York, Massachusetts, Northern Virginia, the Pacific Northwest, and California in it. They send their coins to Newport Beach. The other one, mine, contains Texas, most of "fly over country", Appalachia, the Deep South, and particularly, FLORIDA. We send our coins to Sarasota. I genuinely try to live as much of my life as possible in "my lane". If I want to sample the "other side", I go to Europe, to get the genuine article, not the artifice of Wackadoodle America.

[Jason Abshier]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:35 PM, VKurtB said:

I hear there is, and a banquet as well.

@VKurtB I’ll bring some good old PA Scrapple only a Pennsylvanian would know what this is … lol! 

[VKurtB]

On 4/22/2023 at 7:12 PM, Jason Abshier said:

@VKurtB I’ll bring some good old PA Scrapple only a Pennsylvanian would know what this is … lol! 

For those who do not know what scrapple looks lke, imagine the stuff in the gutters in the Garment District in Manhattan, congealed into a block, sliced about a quarter inch thick, then deep fried.

[Jason Abshier]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:11 PM, VKurtB said:

For those who do not know what scrapple looks lke, imagine the stuff in the gutters in the Garment District in Manhattan, congealed into a block, sliced about a quarter inch thick, then deep fried.

My grandmother made it all time . I actually hated it ! It was food that would sit there at a party nobody wanted it only one of my uncles would eat it he actually liked it . Just about every party someone’s aunt or mother always made pierogi with sauerkraut and sauté onions , Islay’s BBQ chipped ham sandwiches were popular too , Philly cheese sandwiches are trademarks of Pennsylvania 

[Henri Charriere]

Always a pleasure to hear from you, VKurtB! To be honest, I was unaware of the dichotomy of TPGS. I am a full-fledged dues-paying lurker here at NGC, now with a proviso custom-made for me:  I am subject to expulsion at any time without notice, points, or warnings.

The fact is while there are over five times as many collectors of my series here, those who choose to pursue them, quickly find out half the series is abroad and most of the emporiums are left coast affiliated. As a practical matter, relying solely on registrants of Set Registries, there are [IMHO] only two active collectors, one a dealer, me, and three active collectors either here or there, if that.

Every coin I acquired was done so from the discomfort of a hardback chair, wife's cell in hand. It's me, my wife and vingt quatre frappes or keystrokes, in French.

I don't know about any counties in particular but life expectancies in the U.S. have risen and the orthopedist I saw today said I'm in tip-top shape. Too bad, I don't care for A.I., Alexa, etc.

Again, great hearing from you!

[EagleRJO]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:13 PM, Henri Charriere said:

 

🐓:  Too bad the late great member Oldhoopster wasn't around long enough to be provided a possible clew as to Q.A.'s oft-repeated, off-hand quip made in support of his assertion that the OP enjoyed unconditional immunity on this Forum.

oh boy, the Rooster is back!  

Btw, this is the hat Kurt wears to all of these events.  

[VKurtB]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:39 AM, EagleRJO said:

oh boy, the Rooster is back!  

Btw, this is the hat Kurt wears to all of these events.  

That's Joe Boling in that hat. He's the ANA's Chief Judge for exhibiting and current Veep, and quite the expert in paper money, particularly Asian. He's also the guy who nominated me for the Glenn Smedley Award.

Edited April 25, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

I have sent in to the ANA a Summer Seminar "Bull Session" proposal with the following description:

"Neither Fish nor Fowl": What PRECISELY is an SP Coin?

Most of us have MS coins and PF coins, and now many have SP coins. But how are SP coins defined? Are they defined at all? Shouldn’t they be? The impetus for this talk is the presenter’s belief that the hobby NEEDS just such a definition and presents examples of coins that are labelled SP that perhaps should not be, and others that are not so labelled, but undeniably ought to be. There has been an often-heated debate on the online discussion board of the NGC website on this topic. Example coins will be shown and discussed.

Edited April 29, 2023 by VKurtB

[J P M]

On 4/29/2023 at 1:41 PM, VKurtB said:

I have sent in to the ANA a Summer Seminar "Bull Session" proposal with the following description:

"Neither Fish nor Fowl": What PRECISELY is an SP Coin?

Most of us have MS coins and PF coins, and now many have SP coins. But how are SP coins defined? Are they defined at all? Shouldn’t they be? The impetus for this talk is the presenter’s belief that the hobby NEEDS just such a definition and presents examples of coins that are labelled SP that perhaps should not be, and others that are not so labelled, but undeniably ought to be. There has been an often-heated debate on the online discussion board of the NGC website on this topic. Example coins will be shown and discussed.

That sounds like a good topic to clean up Kurt. I am sure you have plenty but I would be happy to send you any pictures of my SP coins if you like.  

[VKurtB]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:34 PM, J P M said:

That sounds like a good topic to clean up Kurt. I am sure you have plenty but I would be happy to send you any pictures of my SP coins if you like.  

I am bringing the following, so far:

1997 Matte Finish Jefferson 5-cent piece

2014 Clad High-Relief Kennedy Half, P&D

2014-S Silver Enhanced Finish Kennedy Half

2014-D Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

2015-W Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

2016-S Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

2017-S Roosevelt Dime & Kennedy Half from the Enhanced Uncirculated set

2019-P Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

All the above are NGC-designated as SP coins.

 

I am also bringing the following:

Regular strike Great Britain 2019 Snowman 50p piece

Tour striking [four hits] of the above (the comparison on detail is "night and day")

 

I am still searching my file boxes for others. I'd be interested to hear of any you have, JPM. Keep in mind - upper braintrust of NGC is expected to be on hand. I will be lavishly crediting @RWB for the idea to get this discussed and defined. If the "Dudes from Newport Beach" want to adopt any definition we come up with, that's for them to decide.

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by VKurtB

[J P M]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:49 PM, VKurtB said:

I am bringing the following, so far:

1997 Matte Finish Jefferson 5-cent piece

2014 Clad High-Relief Kennedy Half, P&D

2014-S Silver Enhanced Finish Kennedy Half

2014-D Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

2015-W Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

2016-S Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

2017-S Roosevelt Dime & Kennedy Half from the Enhanced Uncirculated set

2019-P Enhanced Finish Sacagawea Dollar

All the above are NGC-designated as SP coins.

 

I am also bringing the following:

Regular strike Great Britain 2019 Snowman 50p piece

Tour Striking of the above (the comparison on detail is "night and day")

 

I am still searching my file boxes for others. I'd be interested to hear of any you have, JPM. Keep in mind - upper braintrust of NGC is expected to be on hand. I will be lavishly crediting @RWB for the idea to get this discussed and defined. If the "Dudes from Newport Beach" want to adopt any definition we come up with, that's for them to decide.

 

I think I am getting old, I am confusing SP coins with SMS coins. You see there is another topic. LoL  I only have the one SP 1994  

Edited April 29, 2023 by J P M

[VKurtB]

On 4/29/2023 at 4:04 PM, J P M said:

I think I am getting old, I am confusing SP coins with SMS coins. You see there is another topic. LoL  I only have the one SP 1994  

I like it with the #44 label. Nice!

[J P M]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:01 PM, VKurtB said:

I like it with the #44 label. Nice!

Yes it is one of those coins where the label says something. You are welcome to copy this image if you like.