Curious what you guys think this silver dollar would grade.? 0

[Pocket Changer]

This coin was originally my grandparents. They were not coin collectors in the slightest, but they traveled all over the world, and picked up anything they liked, which clearly included this nice 1880 s silver dollar in not such bad shape. My grandmother died in her 70's about 11 years ago, but I inherited all of their coins after my grandfather died earlier this year (October). This is not meant as a sob post, just giving some background on how this coin came about. Curious to hear your thoughts on how this this would grade, which would obviously determine it's price! Thank you all so much!

 

As usual, the pictures don't quite do it justice, but it's only in slighter better shape than the pictures show, it's certainly not ms 67 or anything.

[Coinbuf]

The sentimental value far outweighs the value of this coin.   The 1880-S Morgan is one of the most common dates for the entire Morgan series, even mint state examples sell for less than $100.   Your coin is very worn and only grades in the AG or lower range, it really has no numismatic value, the value of this coin is just for the silver value which is somewhere around $25-$30 today.

[Pocket Changer]

Thanks for the information Coinbuf, I appreciate it! Here is a slightly better picture of the reverse that I just took. Just curious what you think the grade would be, if anything? I'm not planning on sending it in, just curious. 

[Coinbuf]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:14 PM, Pocket Changer said:

Thanks for the information Coinbuf, I appreciate it! Here is a slightly better picture of the reverse that I just took. Just curious what you think the grade would be, if anything? I'm not planning on sending it in, just curious. 

 

As I said above it grades in the about good range (AG), might squeak into a good-04 grade on a good day, however, those scratches on the obv on the face of Liberty might also cause a TPG to give it a details grade.   Again the only real value here is the sentimental value that you have to the coin, if you sold this to a coin dealer he would toss it into his cull pile to be sent off and be melted down or sold as scrap silver.   Here is a photo from Photograde of both an AG3 and a G04 example, the lack of any rim or denticle detail is what puts your coin into the AG level.

 

[Sandon]

   I agree that the coin would grade About Good and also has scratches and surface damage. It's actually much easier to find an 1880-S Morgan dollar in most uncirculated grades than a well-worn one like this, as many of these were retained in the Treasury as backing for silver certificates and only released in the early 1960s.  NGC alone has numerically graded over 170,000 1880-S dollars, of which nearly 158,000 were graded between MS 63 and MS 66.  You might want to obtain an uncirculated example for comparison.

[Pocket Changer]

Thanks all for your replies! The NGC website is sure misleading when it states "According to the NGC Price Guide, as of April 2023, a Morgan Dollar from 1880 in circulated condition is worth between $34.50 and $63. However, on the open market 1880 S Silver Dollars in pristine, uncirculated condition sell for as much as $29000." That sounds like a lot of money compared to what you said, I only asked because it looks like the lowest it could be worth graded was 34.50, and I didn't think my coin was in the lowest grading tier, but now I know it is!

[Pocket Changer]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:39 PM, Sandon said:

   I agree that the coin would grade About Good and also has scratches and surface damage. It's actually much easier to find an 1880-S Morgan dollar in most uncirculated grades than a well-worn one like this, as many of these were retained in the Treasury as backing for silver certificates and only released in the early 1960s.  NGC alone has numerically graded over 170,000 1880-S dollars, of which nearly 158,000 were graded between MS 63 and MS 66.  You might want to obtain an uncirculated example for comparison.

Then according to your logic, shouldn't circulated ones with intact details be worth more, as they're rarer? Does it go by rarity, or by how nice the coin looks, which one?

[EagleRJO]

On 4/3/2023 at 9:58 PM, Pocket Changer said:

Thanks all for your replies! The NGC website is sure misleading when it states "According to the NGC Price Guide as of April 2023 ...."

The values NGC is quoting are from the Price Guide found here ...

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explorer/united-states/dollars/morgan-dollars-1878-1921/17118/1880-s-1-ms/?des=ms

Note that they list the $34.50 value for the lowest circulated grade of PrAg and the $63 is for the highest circulated grade of AU58+, with there being only mint state or uncirculated values above that.  The $29,000 is shown for the highest listed grade so far at a unicorn MS69, with only 5 MS69 coins graded by NGC and no MS70 grades listed.  An MS69 for that coin would be extremely rare, and thus the very high price that then starts dropping like a rock below that.

The $34,50 for a PrAg may have been melt value at the time the chart was done, which is a little old, and spot prices for silver have dropped a lot recently.  So it is understandable that just slapping a current date on what may be old prices can be confusing.

Current melt for that coin would be around $20 (26.7g / 31.1 g per toz x $24.1 $ per toz spot today).  Also note that some collectors actually seek the lowest possible grade for some coins when doing a "lowball set" which awards more points as the grade goes down.  As a result, sometimes you will see higher prices for the lowest grades compared to mid grade circulated coins.

As others have noted your coin is likely worth melt value, unless there just happens to be several people working on the same lowball set competing for the coin, which is not very common but I have seen it happen watching bidding of Morgans at Great Collections.

Edited April 8, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Sandon]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:02 PM, Pocket Changer said:

Then according to your logic, shouldn't circulated ones with intact details be worth more, as they're rarer? Does it go by rarity, or by how nice the coin looks, which one?

   The vast, vast majority of collectors seek coins in the best (most aesthetically pleasing) condition that they can afford and would far prefer a Choice or Gem Uncirculated common date coin like an 1880-S Morgan dollar over one like yours. It would be very hard to sell your coin for more than its silver value.

   There is a recent fad of "low ball collecting" among a small group of collectors who seek very low-grade coins (Poor to Fair condition) that are still identifiable as to date and mint and are unimpaired by any form of damage, cleaning, or corrosion. Most, like me, think that this is just silly. Your coin wouldn't qualify because it isn't worn enough and is damaged.

   Morgan dollars are hyped by mass marketers because they are so common, with many thousands of pieces existing even of "rare" dates. This has driven their prices up to what I view as unreasonable levels.  There are many far rarer U.S. coins that sell for less. Mass marketers can't get ahold of enough of them to hype them!

   

[Coinbuf]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:02 PM, Pocket Changer said:

Then according to your logic, shouldn't circulated ones with intact details be worth more, as they're rarer? Does it go by rarity, or by how nice the coin looks, which one?

Coin pricing (value) is a function of demand, condition, and rarity; condition and rarity alone mean nothing if there is no demand.   Conversely there are lots of very rare coins with low mintages (especially world coins) in excellent condition, yet in many cases those coins sell for peanuts because there is not enough strong demand from collectors.   At the same time coins in high demand by collectors (like Morgan dollars) only achieve very high values if they are in excellent condition at the very top most level of the grading scale.   All three factors work together to determine the value of a coin.

Value and pricing is much more complex than just this, but what I've written is a very simplistic overview of how coins are valued and priced.

[powermad5000]

It would return from a TPG with a tag of AG Details - Rim Damage. It would be worth spot price for an ounce of silver.

[EagleRJO]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:02 PM, Pocket Changer said:

Does it go by rarity, or by how nice the coin looks, which one?

Both, plus demand as Coinbuf explained very well.  And how nice a coin looks factors into grade.  So value is a function of rarity, grade, and demand.

[Henri Charriere]

The coin's primary saving grace is its smooth undramatic surface unencumbered by pedestrian post-mint damage.  Great thread!