Meaning of "Good Details" on NGC slab 0

[1m salty]

Wondering if a slab marked "Good Details" is the same as a G-4.

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, the answer is yes and no.  What it means is that the details of the coin are at the good level, could be either G04 or G06, but the coin has issues like porosity or damage that prevents it from receiving a straight grade.   It is really up to the buyer to determine if the details support the G04 or G06 level.

[EagleRJO]

To answer your question more directly they are not the same.  A coin graded G-4 is more valuable than one graded "Good Details" as the latter is a problem coin that is less desirable to collectors.

Also, info on this webpage may be helpful ... https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/details-grading/

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Sandon]

Welcome to the NGC chat board.

No, it is not the same. A coin that is "details" graded at any grade lever has some problem other than wear that in the opinion of the graders precludes it from being numerically graded, such as scratches or other damage, corrosion, or improper "cleaning". The label will state the nature of the problem. See NGC Details Grading | NGC (ngccoin.com) for NGC's explanation.

 

 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

As the others have said, a details grade is for a problem coin. Anything from scratches, cleaning, environmental damage, mechanical damage, whizzing, tooling, wheel marks, rim damage, a bent coin, polished, repairing, holes, physical damage, counterstamps, chopmarks, and just about anything in between that affected the original surface of the coin will get a coin with a details grade. NGC does not assign a numeric grade to a details coin, but rather the general level of the remaining devices. I would not worry about trying to assess yourself a numerical grade to a details coin (unless it is UNC Details or extremely low mintage number coins or rare varieties) as most collectors will pass on details graded coins, and you should expect those that would purchase a details coin to pay at least one to up to three grade levels lower than listed in the price guides. A coin with XF details may only sell at a price in the VG grade level depending on how it is damaged. The more severe the damage, the more visible the damage is to the naked eye, the less someone is going to pay for the coin. A details coin at the G level of the grading spectrum (once again unless it is extremely low mintage) is basically going to end up selling for a price at or below the Poor level in value. 

[1m salty]

Thanks to you all!

This helps, but now I'm wondering what happens if the variety is rare. Is there a place one can get a true valuation even on a "Details" coin?  It seems the more I learn the more I don't have a clue about.

[Coinbuf]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:34 PM, 1m salty said:

Thanks to you all!

This helps, but now I'm wondering what happens if the variety is rare. Is there a place one can get a true valuation even on a "Details" coin?  It seems the more I learn the more I don't have a clue about.

Valuing details graded coins is all over the map, it really depends on the nature of the damage, the severity, and the desirability of the coin.   The best way to value these coins is to look at recent auction data, Heritage, Ebay, Great Collections, all of these can be of help.   You just have to put in the time to search the archives for the same coin and hopefully find one with similar issues, not an exact science but really the only way to do it.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Coinbuf

[J P M]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:46 PM, Coinbuf said:

Valuing details graded coins is all over the map, it really depends on the nature of the damage, the severity, and the desirability of the coin.   The best way to value these coins is to look at recent auction data, Heritage, Ebay, Great Collections, all of these can be of help.   You just have to put in the time to search the archives for the same coin and hopefully find one with similar issues, not an exact science but really the only way to do it.

And after you do all that work it is still a details coin. Yes if it is a rare coin it will be worth a bit more but I just don't like the thought of that word on the holder.

[Sandon]

   I agree with what @Coinbuf said. I would add the following:

 1. If you can well afford to buy an unimpaired example of the same issue in the same or better grade, and it wouldn't be very difficult to find one, don't buy an impaired or "problem" coin just because it is cheaper.

 2.  Assuming that you have knowledge of what an unimpaired example should look like, ask yourself whether you find the coin pleasing to your eyes notwithstanding the impairment. If not, you shouldn't buy it.

 3. If the answer to the previous question is yes, ask yourself what discount from the retail price for an unimpaired you would consider appropriate to pay considering the impairment, which can make the coin difficult to sell when the time comes. Pay no more than that discounted price.

  Some details graded coins that have been deemed "cleaned" but don't have significant hairlines or an unnatural or ugly appearance, are, in my opinion, worth buying for a discount of at least about a third off retail. So are coins that have relatively minor scratches, rim bumps, or other relatively minor damage, though my discount for those is closer to half off retail. It's a matter of personal judgment, informed by experience. 

[VKurtB]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:34 PM, 1m salty said:

Thanks to you all!

This helps, but now I'm wondering what happens if the variety is rare. Is there a place one can get a true valuation even on a "Details" coin?  It seems the more I learn the more I don't have a clue about.

What variety is it?

[EagleRJO]

On 2/28/2023 at 10:52 AM, 1m salty said:

Wondering if a slab marked "Good Details" is the same as a G-4.

On 2/28/2023 at 8:34 PM, 1m salty said:

This helps, but now I'm wondering what happens if the variety is rare.

It sounds like you are considering purchasing a "Details" coin.  Even if it is a rare variety consider that there are likely many more unimpaired coins available of that variety.  Also, I would think very carefully before going down that road, as it's a coin you need to be happy with and I assume will be keeping for a while.

As an example, I am working on a complete circulation set of Morgans, and I am pretty much down to plugging holes like the 1893-S Morgan.  The coin is very expensive for me, even in a very low Good to Very Good grade which have been selling in the $2,000 to $3,000 range unimpaired and about $5,000 to $6,000 for a F to VF grade.

So I was seriously considering a "Details" coin, like one that was Good Details - Cleaned with clearly visible scratches for about $1.200 to $1,400.  However, after thinking long and hard about it, as well as posting a few topics about it, I decided that I didn't want a Details coin just to check some box, satisfy an urge for instant gratification, or fill some hole in a collection that is all unimpaired XF to BU grades, with a few VF grades sprinkled in.

I just couldn't imagine periodically going through my collection and coming to the 1893-S being the only "Details" problem coin in the collection, that also wouldn't look very good in the set being a lower grade.  So, I decided instant gratification wasn't my goal, and I am putting aside a little at a time into a special slush fund for that coin, which maybe I will get unimpaired at a decent grade one day down the road.  Your mileage may vary.

On 2/28/2023 at 8:34 PM, 1m salty said:

Is there a place one can get a true valuation even on a "Details" coin?  

No.  But people use various rules of thumb I have heard, also discussed above, like drop 1 grade or use 1/3 off for a coin that is still in decent condition, or drop 2 grades or use 1/2 off for a coin with clearly visible problems.  Again, your mileage may vary.

Also, since you seem to be a newer collector, I would highly recommend you become more familiar with coins and coin collecting in general, and any coin series you may be interested in, before purchasing any coins.  See the following topic by @Sandonwhich has recommendations for newer collector resources.

Link:  Resources For Newer Collectors

Edited March 3, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

If your coin is a rare variety, or very low mintage number, a Details grade might net you the value at the set grade level (Example : 1811 Half Cent Uncirculated Details - Cleaned may/might/could possibly get the base value of an Uncirculated MS60 if the cleaning was not harsh and the coin still has decent eye appeal. This coin has a low mintage value). The problem we are trying to express is that when it comes to a Details coin, the value is only what a buyer is willing to pay for a problem coin and if it is G details, don't expect to get (or pay) G04 or G06 value. The actual 04 or 06 of the remaining details is minutia. XF Details would also not get XF40 or XF45 price that a non problem coin would as once again the actual 40 or 45 is minutia. IF you had a rare variety or low mintage such as the 1893 S Morgan talked about above, XF details MIGHT/MAYBE get you XF pricing but it is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it, and every buyer will have a different level set in their mind about the most they are willing to pay for Details graded coins, or why they would want a Details coin in the first place. I would go out on a limb and say hardcore collectors, ones collecting top pop coins or putting together registry sets would not even allow their eyeball to get past the word Details on the label.

OP, maybe you could tell us what the coin in question is and/or provide us with good clear photos of it so we can try to figure out why the exactness of a numeric grade on a details coin is so important in your case.

[1m salty]

The coin in question is a 1802/0 Reverse of 1800 half-cent. NGC has graded it as "C-1 Good Details Bent", although I don't see a bend in the coin.  Different sites say there are only 25 known. WHEW!

I inherited a huge quantity of coins a few years ago and have been IDing and learning about them ever since. (I know...what a nice problem to have  ). It has been a bit daunting. Most of the coins are moderate value coins, so this one has me spinning a bit...which you guys probably picked up on. 

Again, thank you for all you expertise!!!

[powermad5000]

Thanks for the image and info. Many of us on here would also like to have your "problem" with IDing a bunch of coins.

I feel your pain. I have an 1876 CC DDO Top 100 dime with details because it is "bent".

Being NGC has only graded 4 of these with the best being a VF, and NGC states they believe there to only be about two dozen in existence, you definitely have a rare piece. Remember though, that despite that, it is still a details coin so I think the minor difference between G 04 and G 06 is not going to be an actual factor in its worth as a details coin. HOWEVER, considering the extremely small number of surviving specimens, in this case, you could probably dictate the price of this coin if you were to sell it. It is not like a collector can just say, "I'll pass and just go to this other booth, or go on eBay and get one". That is not possible in the case of your coin. If there are that few survivors, I would highly doubt that two would ever be for sale at the same time. Also, a coin like yours can "disappear" into a collection for 50+ years or more before resurfacing for anyone to even get a chance to purchase it.

Details regardless, on the rarity of the coin you have, it has substantial value with so limited surviving specimens. If it were mine, I would dictate its selling price.

You have an awesome piece there. I'm kind of jealous (LOL!)

[EagleRJO]

Well I whiffed on that one cause I thought you were buying a Details coin.  If its bent but you really can't see that I would say it would go for anywhere between dropping one grade and 25% off, maybe less of a discount due to the rarity of the piece.  There are no GC or HA auction results for that grade coin or one lower in any condition, but Coin World has values which seem consistent with NGC and PCGS values.  Nice coin to have in your collection even with a Details grade.

[Sandon]

   If this 1802 over 0 half cent is designated "Reverse of 1800", it truly is a very rare coin, although one that appeals largely to specialists who collect half cents by die variety. The fact that it is listed in the "Redbook" and most coin price lists helps with its popularity.

   Coins of this rarity are usually sold at auction by the major numismatic auction houses, such as (in alphabetical order) Goldberg Coins & Collectibles (goldbergcoins.com), Great Collections (greatcollections.com), Heritage (ha.com), and Stacks Bowers Galleries (stacksbowers.com). The most-up-to-date list of auction records for this issue that I can find is at Draped Bust Half Cent, 1802/0 Reverse of 1800 MS - PCGS Auction Prices . The most pertinent recent sales appear to be one certified by NGC with Fine details but tooled. which sold for $10,200 at a Heritage auction on April 23, 2021 and a PCGS certified AG details, damaged (attempted punctures) piece sold by Goldberg for $8,225 in February 2018. Unimpaired pieces sell for substantially more. 

  Based on the obverse, which shows little or no impairment and looks like a G 4, I expect that this coin would realize over $10,000. Could you show us a photo of the reverse?

 

[1m salty]

Looking at the pic of the reverse, to me it looks like NGC got it wrong. Am I crazy?

[Sandon]

   You're not crazy! NGC got it wrong. Your coin clearly has the Reverse of 1802, which has significantly larger letters than the very rare Reverse of 1800. The Reverse of 1800 also has a double top leaf at the upper right of the wreath, while the Reverse of 1802 has a single top leaf at the upper right of the wreath.  The Reverse of 1802, while scarce, is much less rare and valuable than the Reverse of 1800.

   NGC would likely classify this as a "mechanical error" and should correct it without charge.  I would contact NGC to arrange this. Hopefully, they'll also pay your postage. I've seen these sorts of obvious errors happen all too often. 

   For the benefit of other forum members, I note that I checked this certification number on NGC Certificate Verification. The NGC photos match the topic author's photos. The coin was just certified on February 23rd, presumably having been submitted by the author.

[1m salty]

Thanks. Guess I don't need to stress anymore. 

[powermad5000]

I checked some reverse images and Sandon is correct on this. Good catch Sandon!

Unfortunately for the OP, this brings its value down substantially. One of the Heritage Auctions in 2019 had an 02 reverse NGC graded Good Details sell for $360. It is still not a "common" coin with NGC having graded only 59 total with the highest getting VF but is more common than an 00 reverse. Being there is more of a population, with the bent designation, it would probably sell in the $300-400 range.

Thanks to both pics, I think we all have narrowed down the OP's original issue finally.

[1m salty]

Many thanks to all who shared their expertise with me yesterday and today. I've learned a lot from your inputs. When I submitted the coin, I knew enough to ask for the NGC to identify the variety. I had no idea the grade/variety could be wrong and never thought to double check it on my own. I also didn't realize I could share the pics with you all so your eyes could verify it,...I am a bit of a Technosaurus I'm told. I will get with NGC tomorrow about redoing the grading/variety designation on my coin. Again, thank you all!   KES

 

[Sandon]

   NGC personnel should be able to determine that a mistake has been made by examining their own photos of this coin. They should also appreciate your honesty in seeking this correction.

   You shouldn't have had to pay the $18 variety attribution fee to attribute this coin in the first place. NGC VarietyPlus designates the Reverse of '00 (C-1) and Reverse of '02 (C-2) as "no fee" varieties. See Draped Bust Half Cents (1800-1808) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com) .

   

Edited March 2, 2023 by Sandon
add omitted word

[J P M]

I am glad to see we have been talking about a worthy coin. One of the rare ones. Nice coin even with the dent.... LoL