Counterfeits,,how do u know 1 1

[Kyle Mesneak]

So what if u have a coin such as this and more than 15 dealers,coin collectors,coins shops have looked it over for not 1 of any whom have looked it over deem it counterfeit,if anything I get told they want no part of the coin or being responsible for it,or tell me to get a bodyguard until I get it locked in safety deposit box or authenticated,,if speak to anybody on the phone regarding the coin they treat me as if im full of mess and even upon sending pic all ive been told is if we thought to be real we be on next plane,,, who do u trust with it in order to be authenticated and graded so that I may sell it?? Or how do u get people to take serious without being treated as if we're an insufficiently_thoughtful_person,,,once it's in the.hands of any dealer or collector u then finally get their attention but yet they want nuthing to do with it or for u to leave it with them tgat is if they don't offer u a couple thousand for it whole acting as if the coin is nuthing?? This coin has been a struggle for 3 years ,,Im to the point i just want it gone

[Greenstang]

Can you supply the weight to two decimal points. That would be a good starting point.

Doing further research in my files, I am fairly (but not 100%) sure bit is counterfeit.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Greenstang

[Sandon]

 

  If this coin sticks to a magnet, it is simply a normal 1943 zinc coated steel cent that has been copper plated. There are tens of thousands of such pieces that were so plated as novelties or to deceive. There are also many, many counterfeits.  Only 17 genuine 1943 cents struck on bronze planchets are known to exist, so reports of any new findings are greeted with much skepticism.

  If the coin doesn't stick to a magnet, I would try to weigh it on a properly calibrated digital scale, as suggested by @Greenstang.  The official weight for a bronze cent is 3.11 grams, while a zinc coated steel cent is supposed to weigh 2.70 grams.  If the coin weighs over 3 grams, there's a chance it's genuine, though it would still be unlikely.  You could submit the coin to either NGC (www.ngccoin.com) or PCGS (www.pcgs.com) for authentication.  (The coin if genuine would be unlikely to receive a numerical grade because of the deep scratch on the reverse and the hairlining on the obverse but would still be valuable.)  For NGC submission, review "How to Submit", "Services & Fees" and the other topics under the "Submit" tab.  As this coin if genuine would likely be worth more than $25,000, the authentication and grading fee would be substantial--$350 plus 1% of the fair market value--you might want to discuss its submission with NGC customer service (1-800-NGC-COIN or service@NGCCoin.com) to determine if it could be submitted at a lower tier and a high fee charged only if the coin is determined to be genuine.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by Sandon

[Kyle Mesneak]

The coin weighs correct and doesn't stick to a magnet

[Kyle Mesneak]

On 1/28/2023 at 10:15 AM, Sandon said:

 

  If this coin sticks to a magnet, itis simply a normal 1943 zinc coated steel cent that has been copper plated. There are tens of thousands of such pieces that were so plated as novelties or to deceive. There are also many, many counterfeits.  Only 17 genuine 1943 cents struck on bronze planchets are known to exist, so reports of any new findings are greeted with much skepticism.

  If the coin doesn't stick to a magnet, I would try to weigh it on a properly calibrated digital scale, as suggested by @Greenstang.  The official weight for a bronze cent is 3.11 grams, while a zinc coated steel cent is supposed to weigh 2.70 grams.  If the coin weighs over 3 grams, there's a chance it's genuine, though it would still be unlikely.  You could submit the coin to either NGC (www.ngccoin.com) or PCGS (www.pcgs.com) for authentication.  (The coin if genuine would be unlikely to receive a numerical grade because of the deep scratch on the reverse and the hairlining on the obverse but would still be valuable.)  For NGC submission, review "How to Submit", "Services & Fees" and the other topics under the "Submit" tab.  As this coin if genuine would likely be worth more than $25,000, the authentication and grading fee would be substantial--$350 plus 1% of the fair market value--you might want to discuss its submission with NGC customer service (1-800-NGC-COIN or service@NGCCoin.com) to determine if it could be submitted at a lower tier and a high fee charged only if the coin is determined to be genuine.  

Doesn't stick to a magnet and it weighs correctly

[Kyle Mesneak]

[Kyle Mesneak]

Earth magnets,,,and weight 

[Kyle Mesneak]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:57 AM, Greenstang said:

Can you supply the weight to two decimal points. That would be a good starting point.

Doing further research in my files, I am fairly (but not 100%) sure bit is counterfeit.

[Kyle Mesneak]

On 1/28/2023 at 1:52 PM, Kyle Mesneak said:

Next to earth magnets

[l.cutler]

Unfortunately, it is not as easy as it used to be to spot fake 1943 bronze cents. The Chinese mints are pumping out fakes that are the right composition and weight by the tons. Where did you get it?

[Greenstang]

Kyle, weight to one decimal point is not accurate enough, it has to be to at least two. That could be 2.87 and still read 2.9. A copper coin should be about 3.11g.

I have put together a couple of pictures to illustrate why I think it is counterfeit. The first thing I usually look at is the nape of the neck, compare yours to the genuine coin. Also the 3 in the date is slightly lower. There are also slight differences in the eyes and mouth although hard to see.  If you still believe yours is genuine, the only alternative is to send it to a TPG for verfication.

[Kyle Mesneak]

On 1/28/2023 at 2:16 PM, l.cutler said:

Unfortunately, it is not as easy as it used to be to spot fake 1943 bronze cents. The Chinese mints are pumping out fakes that are the right composition and weight by the tons. Where did you get it?

Came out of bunch of counseling ny grandmother had

 

On 1/28/2023 at 4:28 PM, Greenstang said:

Kyle, weight to one decimal point is not accurate enough, it has to be to at least two. That could be 2.87 and still read 2.9. A copper coin should be about 3.11g.

I have put together a couple of pictures to illustrate why I think it is counterfeit. The first thing I usually look at is the nape of the neck, compare yours to the genuine coin. Also the 3 in the date is slightly lower. There are also slight differences in the eyes and mouth although hard to see.  If you still believe yours is genuine, the only alternative is to send it to a TPG for verfication.

Are u comparing it against another copper or what exactly,,? Yours copper? Copper cure different? My camera is like my scales (which is my cell phone) and that could make big difference to naked eye when compared to or if taken with better camera,, Or why would somebody go the distance making everything else correct in which that of other counterfeits aren't able to d

fake  or detection is so much more obvious?? Please don't take as me being an ,, not meaning to be,,guess im just tired of questioning it and I should just get it authenticated to eliminate my questioning which would also do favors to the very few ,,such as yourself that has been more honest and up front than most anybody else and taking time,,I appreciate u for that.

[Kyle Mesneak]

On 1/29/2023 at 12:57 AM, Kyle Mesneak said:

Came out of bunch of counseling ny grandmother had

 

Are u comparing it against another copper or what exactly,,? Yours copper? Copper cure different? My camera is like my scales (which is my cell phone) and that could make big difference to naked eye when compared to or if taken with better camera,, Or why would somebody go the distance making everything else correct in which that of other counterfeits aren't able to d

fake  or detection is so much more obvious?? Please don't take as me being an ,, not meaning to be,,guess im just tired of questioning it and I should just get it authenticated to eliminate my questioning which would also do favors to the very few ,,such as yourself that has been more honest and up front than most anybody else and taking time,,I appreciate u for that.

That or just get rid of it because I swear it's like a curse in which I can't afford to turn into a possible blessing,,(or just have invested for what Maynot,,,or maybe,,, give this blessed curse to another that can afford to take chances so maybe the rich get richer,,,,lol,,,

[Kyle Mesneak]

On 1/28/2023 at 2:16 PM, l.cutler said:

Unfortunately, it is not as easy as it used to be to spot fake 1943 bronze cents. The Chinese mints are pumping out fakes that are the right composition and weight by the tons. Where did you get it?

 

On 1/28/2023 at 4:28 PM, Greenstang said:

Kyle, weight to one decimal point is not accurate enough, it has to be to at least two. That could be 2.87 and still read 2.9. A copper coin should be about 3.11g.

I have put together a couple of pictures to illustrate why I think it is counterfeit. The first thing I usually look at is the nape of the neck, compare yours to the genuine coin. Also the 3 in the date is slightly lower. There are also slight differences in the eyes and mouth although hard to see.  If you still believe yours is genuine, the only alternative is to send it to a TPG for verfication.

Thank you for your time and what u have pointed out others have not,,I appreciate you very much?? Thanks gor your 2 cents,,,,,maybe worth 1 mire cents than that of any of my said 2 cents

[l.cutler]

I couldn't agree more with Greenstang. Another point, steel cents took a lot more pressure to strike than bronze, so true bronze 1943 cents are sharply struck. Notice how fuzzy and mushy this one is.  There is also the weird anomalies on the edge.  I have a hard time seeing this as a genuine coin.  If you do decide to have it authenticated, I would research the least expensive route to have it done.

[powermad5000]

If I may interject, the scale you are using is a cheap pocket scale. I owned three of those scales and all went to the recycler because the weights they were displaying were not accurate. You can check to see first if your scale is properly calibrated but you may benefit more by taking your coin to a coin shop or jeweler with a quality, accurate scale and getting a real reading to two decimal points. I think you will have your question answered at that point.

[Sandon]

  In my original post on this topic, I said that the coin might be worth submitting for authentication if it weighs over 3 grams. Assuming that @Kyle Mesneak's scale is accurate within 0.1 gram, a weight of 2.9-3.0 grams isn't likely more than 3 grams!  Two of the examples certified by NGC in low mint state grades have weights stated on the holder labels of 3.09 and 3.07 grams respectively.  These bear certificate nos. 2067200-001 (61 BN) and 2067200-002 (62 BN).  The coin shown is lightly worn but is unlikely to be much lighter than these.

   I agree that the coin should be weighed to the nearest 0.01 gram on a professional quality scale before a decision is made on submission and with the other comments regarding peculiarities in the coin's appearance, including the mushy look of its details and the apparent "wire rim" or "fin" on the lower reverse, which isn't commonly seen on U.S. coins of this era.  However, unlike the case with many of the items posted in these forums, I can't state definitively that it is a fake. (The example with certificate no. 2067200-001 has a large obverse "cud" rim break that looks too good to be true!)

   This coin is quite valuable if it is genuine but absolutely worthless if it is a fake!  It can't be sold for any price unless professionally authenticated without one of the parties being cheated!  A coin can't be authenticated from photos and must be submitted to a respectable third-party grading service.  If you can't make affordable arrangements with NGC or PCGS, you might try ANACS (www.anacs.com).  As the authentication of a previously unknown example of a 1943 bronze cent would generate favorable publicity for the service that handles it, I think that you should be able to make suitable arrangements.

   

[Kyle Mesneak]

Just want to say thanks to all that have given their opinion and also facts on this coin in which some I didn't know and knew little about the other facts of this coin or for any coin at all for that matter,,, I became a member of ngc roughly 8 month ago but wasn't sure how to get real feedback will real facts supporting until just 2 days ago I decided to join a forum and chat it up,,,,with that said ive never be more impressed with how my post or questioning has been taken as serious as all of you that replied seems to be nor have been given the respect on this matter in which has been so hard to capture from others unless live in person in that you all have given to me ive learned so much from,,,,you all are a rare breed in my opinion,,you all are first class,,,I hope that in my days to come I to am seen to possess the same characteristics to a complete stranger to aid in their questioni g or concern just as you have done unto me,,,, thank u so very much,,,  hats off to you with upmost gratitude,,,                                kyle from Texas 

[lcourtney123]

On the scale weight why does it weigh "always" 1g difference when a coin is flipped? I have the same scale as this. Good luck with your coin. 

[Sandon]

@lcourtney123--By the laws of physics, a coin must have the same weight from either side!  (On all the photos it's weighed with the obverse up anyway.)  Most of the inexpensive scales aren't sufficiently accurate to weigh coins, which is one of the reasons I don't have one.

[lcourtney123]

What do you use? Should this penny be weighed differently?

[Sandon]

 @lcourtney123--A purported 1943 bronze cent is in a special category due to its extreme rarity and the large number of fakes.  It should be weighed on a professional quality, perfectly calibrated scale operated by experienced personnel.  

   The vast majority of coins don't require weighing! One generally makes a preliminary determination about the authenticity of a coin or whether it is a significant error or variety by looking at it carefully and understanding what it's supposed to look like.  One obtains this understanding by personally examining many coins, by reading good numismatic references, and by speaking with experienced collectors and dealers.   Most of this can't be done on a chat board!  You need to acquire and/or refer to the print and/or online resources to which I've already directed you.  A good magnifier (5x-10x) is the only tool that is essential. You should also go to coin shows and consider joining a coin club if you really want to learn about this fascinating field!

[Kyle Mesneak]

I've had the coin weighed by the top coin collectors in amarillo Texas, as well put up on a big screen and viewed underneath a magnification apparatus that looked like a microscope and just as most the gentleman's said opinion was that he believed all to be authentic but 1 thing gave him pause or was a question to him which was the dots or markings on obverse side between words in God we trust he said looked alittle faint  but other than that everything about his assessment he believed it to be authentic,,,,,ive been trying to get all input and opinions I could gather since I've had the coin and with that said ive spent hundreds if not a couple thousand taking to those that want to look at it and have spent more time fooling with the dern thing than I ever dreamed any coin to be worth which maybe more beneficial to give up and save myself what I've put towards the coin ill never get back or that I'll save myself in future if I do,,,  thank u all much appreciated as ive mentioned already this chat has been more help in 2 days compared to all ive spent doing the past year,,,thank u all

[lcourtney123]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:12 PM, Sandon said:

 @lcourtney123--A purported 1943 bronze cent is in a special category due to its extreme rarity and the large number of fakes.  It should be weighed on a professional quality, perfectly calibrated scale operated by experienced personnel.  

   The vast majority of coins don't require weighing! One generally makes a preliminary determination about the authenticity of a coin or whether it is a significant error or variety by looking at it carefully and understanding what it's supposed to look like.  One obtains this understanding by personally examining many coins, by reading good numismatic references, and by speaking with experienced collectors and dealers.   Most of this can't be done on a chat board!  You need to acquire and/or refer to the print and/or online resources to which I've already directed you.  A good magnifier (5x-10x) is the only tool that is essential. You should also go to coin shows and consider joining a coin club if you really want to learn about this fascinating field!

Thanks again, yes, I have a scope as well however have learned not to use it unless something is distracting to the naked eye or takes your focus immediately to it as Kyle spoke about above the about the dots. Don't give up Kyle Mesneak NGC is reputable service. Insurance is readily available for you as well. 

[Kyle Mesneak]

My grandmother is where the coin came from and I would ask her but she passed several years ago,   born in 1904 makes me wonder how she would have come across or why should would've kept a fake as she always had coins and even rolls  around she kept to give all her kids amd grandchildren after she was gone,,, all coins set idle for quite a long time and slowly her grandchildren made off with most of them,,,,,although a few remained and were never looked and my start to saving wheat penny for my children as well as silver certificates I one day came upon a can with a fee handfuls of  coins in it that later found out were from my grandmother,,,naturally I went straight to the wheat penny's for my children's small collection in which I had started,,in the total of 7 or so wheat penny's was the 43 in which ive posted but knew nuthing about at the time of aquiring,,,months upon months later I discovered the rarity of a 43 and so I went to locate amongst the penny's I save for my children,,and infact thought I had lost it,,but on the back of a piece of notebook paper where I was sorting the penny's and righting down their dates upon I had taped 4 penny's I guess I didn't finish categorizing and low and  behold where 3 steel and the 1 from grandmother I had been looking for so after that which was about a year ago or maybe longer I started to inquire ,question and present to coin shops and collectors and upon them actually holding in their hand and seeing their reaction got me even more intrigued,,,, now I'm only intrigued as to how much I've been able to invest in one penny to still be where I started but to have much more knowledge about,,,ive recieved a small education about this particular coin that honestly when I think about it has only been a curse or a type of hecks to me and my Financials,chatting about it with you all was decided to be my last resort before putting thus hecks on somebody else,, guess ill hold onto it until the person comes along and decides to break this curse because it has exhausted me to point of no return mentally and financially therfore I guess it'll remain in the bottom of this crown royal bag collection set back for my children,,,although placing the cursed coin on them doesn't seem right I hope to get rid of it before they to come to deal with it,, 

[Hoghead515]

These 1943 coppers have been counterfeited for years and years. The counterfeiters are very good at getting the weight accurate. If you look at certain things on the coin you can tell its a counterfeit. If you look at the picture of the steel cent Greenstang posted and compare it with yours you can tell it wasnt struck with the same die. The back of the neck is a dead giveaway. Even though they are two different metals if they were struck with the same die they would have the same features. There are just a very very small amount of legit copper 43 cents and millions upon millions of counterfeits. Youd have a better chance at hitting the powerball than finding a legit 43 copper. Thats why they are so valuable. 

[powermad5000]

Kyle, if you say you spent a lot of money on having the coin looked at by many people and still have this agony over it, I have an idea for you that might work to end your restlessness. I tried to look where the email went, but I couldn't find NGC's email about a listing of NGC submitters across the country, so maybe someone else has this and could help. The point I am trying to make here is maybe you could find an authorized NGC submitter and work out a deal to submit just one coin lumped in with others submissions so maybe you wouldn't even have to pay the shipping to get it there and back, just the submission fees. Another way you could do it is to take it to one of the bigger coin shows where NGC takes submissions in person and you could at least save the shipping to them.

Just throwing some ideas out there as I am sure we would all like to know the real deal and how the story ends.

[powermad5000]

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-dealer-locator

Found it on a search. There is a button to click on the page to find dealers that assist with submissions and locate them in your area. Maybe you could work out a deal with one of them.