ANA WFoM Sites Chosen 0

[VKurtB]

This post is in error. See below.
 

Previously, the 2024 World’s Fair of Money had been scheduled for Rosemont, Illinois in August. That has now been changed. For the time being, the next opportunity for the ANA’s signature show to return to Chicagoland will be in 2026. 
 

The current rundown of years and sites is:

2023 - Pittsburgh

2024 - Oklahoma City

2025 - Pittsburgh

The move for 2024 is believed to be related to security concerns at the venue, but that is unconfirmed. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/25/2023 at 1:50 PM, VKurtB said:

Previously, the 2024 World’s Fair of Money had been scheduled for Rosemont, Illinois in August. That has now been changed. For the time being, the next opportunity for the ANA’s signature show to return to Chicagoland will be in 2026.  The current rundown of years and sites is: 2023 - Pittsburgh 2024 - Oklahoma City 2025 - Pittsburgh

The move for 2024 is believed to be related to security concerns at the venue, but that is unconfirmed. 

If it was IN Chicago, security would be a no-brainer.  Isn't Rosemont like Chicago suburbs ?

[VKurtB]

On 1/25/2023 at 1:10 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If it was IN Chicago, security would be a no-brainer.  Isn't Rosemont like Chicago suburbs ?

It’s a company town whose one industry is conventions. Arab, Alabama has about twice the population of Rosemont, Illinois. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

I am led to believe that Rosemont has not been able to decide how to “fix” the circumstances of the theft of last August, and has been unwilling to set a fixed price to do so. Caution: this is third hand, not for attribution. I have ALWAYS considered the Rosemont expo hall management “a little shady”. It feels like dealing with the mafia. Just a feeling. And I worked for a Sicilian committee chairman for 13 years. I know the feeling. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

On 1/25/2023 at 3:57 PM, VKurtB said:

I am led to believe that Rosemont has not been able to decide how to “fix” the circumstances of the theft of last August, and has been unwilling to set a fixed price to do so. Caution: this is third hand, not for attribution. I have ALWAYS considered the Rosemont expo hall management “a little shady”. It feels like dealing with the mafia. Just a feeling. And I worked for a Sicilian committee chairman for 13 years. I know the feeling. 

That’s why it has always been known as Crook County, Illinois.

are you saying security concerns in 2024 in Pittsburgh or Chicago that the show needed to be moved? 

I remember one of the board members saying 2023in Pittsburgh and then all will be back at Rosemont. Funny how crime and the complaints that follow can force decisions.

[VKurtB]

On 1/25/2023 at 5:17 PM, Zebo said:

That’s why it has always been known as Crook County, Illinois.

are you saying security concerns in 2024 in Pittsburgh or Chicago that the show needed to be moved? 

I remember one of the board members saying 2023in Pittsburgh and then all will be back at Rosemont. Funny how crime and the complaints that follow can force decisions.

I’m saying that Rosemont had been officially named for 2024 and LIKELY for 2025. Now it hosts neither year. The hobby loves Rosemont. They underbid every other city and dealers love flying into O’Hare. But the negotiations to “fix” the proximate cause of the August 2022 theft will not be cheap nor easy. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by VKurtB

[gmarguli]

Maybe the ANA could pick a city where you're not likely to get murdered? 

[RWB]

ANA is too small to interest the normal convention centers. National Harbor just outside Washington DC would be an excellent venue, if ANA had the **** to do something a little different and up-scale.

It doesn't matter which parking garage in Rosemont ANA uses....they're all the same cookie cutter clutter.

[VKurtB]

On 1/25/2023 at 8:02 PM, RWB said:

ANA is too small to interest the normal convention centers. National Harbor just outside Washington DC would be an excellent venue, if ANA had the **** to do something a little different and up-scale.

It doesn't matter which parking garage in Rosemont ANA uses....they're all the same cookie cutter clutter.

The ANA will never again use any major eastern city for their conventions due to union work rules. No New York, no Philly, no Washington, no Baltimore because of Whitman’s investment there. No State or territory that taxes coins or bullion. There are only about 20 states on the “green list” list. Pittsburgh’s unions have been “neutered”. The Philly show in 2018 is still BY FAR the top revenue making show in the ANA’s history but it lost piles of money due to the labor unions. A union videographer and lighting man had to be sitting next to the guys the ANA hired to record Money Talks, and they got paid double time for the weekend even though they literally did not a single thing. I personally violated the union rules by gathering up the chairs at the lot viewing room at Philly. It was decided it was okay because I was purely a volunteer, not being paid even a stipend. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by VKurtB

[RWB]

National Harbor is not in a city. It is immediately adjacent to Washington DC. ('Dillon Rule' states are a problem. Local jurisdictions have little control over business incentives. Virginia is an exception because of the broad authority given Fairfax County and its contiguous neighbors. But that only works in Northern VA, and there are no suitable venues for ANA there.)

[VKurtB]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:44 AM, RWB said:

National Harbor is not in a city. It is immediately adjacent to Washington DC. ('Dillon Rule' states are a problem. Local jurisdictions have little control over business incentives. Virginia is an exception because of the broad authority given Fairfax County and its contiguous neighbors. But that only works in Northern VA, and there are no suitable venues for ANA there.)

Suitable venues. ANA will never do downtown Chicago, for a variety of reasons. Most of Pennsylvania is Dillon Rule, with some exceptions. Philly is the worst. They CLAIM to be able to act as if they were their own state, not subject to state law at all. Of course it’s complete 🐂💩, but they’ve proven they will litigate against the state and the judges (large number from Philly) are corrupt, so in effect, they can. 

[Zebo]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:44 AM, RWB said:

National Harbor is not in a city. It is immediately adjacent to Washington DC. ('Dillon Rule' states are a problem. Local jurisdictions have little control over business incentives. Virginia is an exception because of the broad authority given Fairfax County and its contiguous neighbors. But that only works in Northern VA, and there are no suitable venues for ANA there.)

Too bad the Chantilly Expo center doesn’t have hotels attached and a bit better layout for a large show. Two buildings that aren’t conveniently connected. Close to Dulles airport.

or possibly move the show to North Carolina - Charlotte would be nice. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Zebo

[RWB]

Chantilly Expo is mostly large open space in 2 buildings - strictly a drive-to venue - surrounded by fast food, as you describe. Now that Metro Rail is open to Dulles airport and beyond the Reston vicinity has potential, but at present there is no building with a large open area plus smaller meeting rooms. It also more drive-to if you want wide hotel selection.

ANA simply doe not have much "creative culture." Management plods along, members plod along (I'm a plodding member, too), and the whole thing just squishes mud.

[zadok]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:13 AM, RWB said:

Chantilly Expo is mostly large open space in 2 buildings - strictly a drive-to venue - surrounded by fast food, as you describe. Now that Metro Rail is open to Dulles airport and beyond the Reston vicinity has potential, but at present there is no building with a large open area plus smaller meeting rooms. It also more drive-to if you want wide hotel selection.

ANA simply doe not have much "creative culture." Management plods along, members plod along (I'm a plodding member, too), and the whole thing just squishes mud.

...yeah but they r smart enuf to stay away from new york, new jersey, philly, dc n the entire eastern corridor....

[CaptHenway]

I have spoken with the ANA. They are aware of this FALSE RUMOR that the 2024 convention is being moved to Oklahoma City and they categorically deny it.
They are working on a press release which will discuss upcoming convention sites, which does include Rosemont in 2024.
TD

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:13 AM, RWB said:

Chantilly Expo is mostly large open space in 2 buildings - strictly a drive-to venue - surrounded by fast food, as you describe. Now that Metro Rail is open to Dulles airport and beyond the Reston vicinity has potential, but at present there is no building with a large open area plus smaller meeting rooms. It also more drive-to if you want wide hotel selection.

ANA simply doe not have much "creative culture." Management plods along, members plod along (I'm a plodding member, too), and the whole thing just squishes mud.

They have used “suboptimal” locations for the winter/spring National Money Show on many occasions. This Dulles thing sounds like another. This coming one in Phoenix looks TO ME to be a ridiculously expensive town in which to hold a NMS. The hotel rates make last year’s at the Broadmoor look dirt cheap by comparison. $300 a night is CHEAP for Phoenix. 

[VKurtB]

see below

Edited January 27, 2023 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:40 PM, VKurtB said:

The Board voted to move 2024 to Oklahoma City and this was understood to be true at Orlando by ALL dealers. This was relayed to me by SEVERAL Board members, to my ears personally. Even Andy at Angel Dee’s confirmed it after Orlando to a good Pennsylvania friend of both of us. IF this has changed yet again, it is a “walk back”, and nothing more. The decision to go to OKC in 2024 WAS MADE! Let ANA management’s baldfaced lying begin. 
 

Don’t want to believe me? Ask the ANA’s de facto Parliamentarian, the past one who is now a Governor. The “official” Parliamentarian has no idea how to do that job. When a tough call comes up, they do NOT consult their Parliamentarian; they consult the past one.   

Oklahoma City would be great. I’m all in favor of it, but have no vote unfortunately. 

[VKurtB]

Okay everybody, it seems there are deviating opinions on the ANA Board of Governors about what they have voted for. Unfortunately, the draft minutes for the meeting in question are NOT finished, and are FAAAR from being approved. I have now spoken, BY OLD SCHOOL VOICE PHONE CALL, with ANA Executive Director Kim Kiick and a DIFFERENT Governor whose opinion of what was voted on differs from both Andy from Angel Dee’s AND my first Governor source. FRANKLY, the Kim and second Governor version makes more sense logically. 
 

Somebody got this wrong, including me, for reporting it with ONLY TWO independent sources telling me the same thing. My first source revealed it to me precisely BECAUSE it was so astonishing to him. Somehow, the same version of events got to Andy too. 
 

That source, it now seems, may be incorrect while being completely sincere about what he feels he voted on. 
 

Here is what is the MOST LIKELY OUTCOME after the past meeting minutes are considered:

2023 - Pittsburgh

2024 - Rosemont/Chicago

2025 - Oklahoma City

2026 - Pittsburgh

2027 is not known at all, however there is some desire to co-site the convention with the stamp collectors as happened by accident at Rosemont a few years back. Neither organization has firmed up a 2027 venue and dates yet. 
 

Now, my initial source probably STILL believes what he told me. He is a Governor. He ALSO is probably mistaken, after I have spoken personally by voice with E.D, Kim Kiick. The above schedule, in THIS POST, is the one prudent people can assume. Chalk this one up to not checking ENOUGH sources, especially when memories differ. 
 

This last bit is “all me”. In my opinion, Rosemont STILL has inherent security problems, that are very difficult to solve. If the arena and the ANA do solve them, they deserve congratulations. I don’t want to write a playbook for thieves, but the convention center is surrounded on three sides by less than optimal sight lines, and too many exit doors. And the “in the know shortcut” from the main show hotel to the show floor is a security nightmare nearly impossible to fix. The Stephens Center is easy to make more secure, but it removes fire exits. It can be made fire safe, but then it becomes a theft problem. Again, my opinions. 
 

So here’s my “Christopher Columbus promise” to the ANA: if they don’t get the security issues dealt with, I’m going to make the sun disappear in midday in early April of 2024. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:13 AM, RWB said:

ANA simply doe not have much "creative culture." Management plods along, members plod along (I'm a plodding member, too), and the whole thing just squishes mud.

Or, just maybe, hear me out, management is well-meaning but under-resourced, with many former professional staff roles now filled by volunteers; members who are too infrequently asked to do specific things that are in their wheelhouses (your writings are yours, Roger), an all too frequent human failing of not wanting to change what’s comfortable, and a reluctance to turn to new people for anything. I am the exception. I was on the 2012 Host Committee for Philly that year, impressed the staff with my willingness to work like a dog, and was recruited by then-convention Director Rhonda Scurek to be a National Volunteer. 
 

Note to Gen Z and Millennials: even retired and chronically ill Pennsylvania Deutsch “boomers” regularly work circles around you even if you do have “safe spaces” and mental health breaks. Nope, we can’t do the bars until 2AM. That’s what sleep is for. Cripes, I wouldn’t even be able to keep up with Charmy during “off hours”. I work, I sleep, I eat lightly. I don’t party. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by VKurtB

[CaptHenway]

Correct. Oklahoma City was just approved for 2025. 2024 is still ROsemont.

TD

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:45 PM, CaptHenway said:

Correct. Oklahoma City was just approved for 2025. 2024 is still ROsemont.

TD

Pittsburgh is also a go for 2026. And Rosemont is “likely, but not confirmed” for 2027. Negotiations are under way. 

[VKurtB]

Here’s why Rosemont presents security problems. It has 840,000 sq. ft. convention floor under roof. The ANA uses maybe 225,000 sq. ft. of it. USUALLY, the remaining 615,000 sq. ft. is full goose bozo EMPTY, but there are “ways” to get into them, IF you know how. In addition, there are scads and scads of meeting rooms, of which the ANA uses a third or so, part time. All this empty but “accessible to those who know” spaces are a stinking nightmare for theft security. They all have fire exits that open into a narrow strip and then wilderness. I don’t like Rosemont. I’m no security expert but I can mentally compare one place with another. Rosemont seems like a security non-starter. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by VKurtB

[RWB]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:45 PM, CaptHenway said:

Correct. Oklahoma City was just approved for 2025. 2024 is still Rosemont.

TD

But which parking garage? Will there be flush plumbing this time? Will there be a special "Thieves' Holiday" or maybe a razor wire enclosure for members who make and sell counterfeits"? Merely wondering.....

Edited January 28, 2023 by RWB

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:02 PM, RWB said:

But which parking garage? Will there be flush plumbing this time? Will there be a special "Thieves' Holiday" or maybe a razor wire enclosure for members who make and sell counterfeits"? Merely wondering.....

You jest, but there is a glimmer of truth in there. And this IS my particular area of expertise at ANA shows. The ANA dealer only “pre-show” day, which happens on the Monday of the August show week, is a COMPLETE MESS. I am 100% convinced the “pre-show” kerfuffle contributed to the Great Theft of 2022. So it MIGHT be fair to refer to it as a Thieves’ Holiday. NOBODY AMONG THE ATTENDEES KNOWS WHAT THE RULES FOR THE PRE-SHOW ARE!! 

Calling it a dealer only day only confuses things because NOT ALL DEALERS ARE AUTHORIZED TO BE ON THE FLOOR. But they insist they should be. They don’t wanna take “no” as the answer. So unauthorized people (dealers who did NOT buy the pre-show) are CONSTANTLY trying to get on the floor. It creates a security nightmare. 

[RWB]

Excellent perception!