Question about Auctions 0

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

I noticed the same coin sold in July 2022 being back up for auction again this month with a 1/2 grade higher but it has same certification number. My question is : "Is this unusual that a coin sold, graded  with 1/2 higher grade is back on the market in 5 months and does upgrades retain certification number ? PS: Coin was regraded by the same TPG and retained its "CAC" sticker. Thanx for any input  

[J P M]

Not sure about the certification number it would make sense to keep the number as not to mess up there statistics of graded coins.

[EagleRJO]

Someone may have cherrypicked the coin as undegraded, and I think when a coin is re-submitted the original certification number is retained.

[“”]

On 1/4/2023 at 6:09 PM, EagleRJO said:

Someone may have cherrypicked the coin as undegraded, and I think when a coin is re-submitted the original certification number is retained.

This is not the case. If a coin is submitted for regrade it gets a new certification number. The first digits of the certification before the - dash are the invoice number from whomever submitted the coin. Only time the certification number is retained is when a coin is submitted for reholdering.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/4/2023 at 5:43 PM, LDH Coins & Memorabilia said:

... with a 1/2 grade higher but it has same certification number .. 

On 1/4/2023 at 8:57 PM, Simple Collector said:

Only time the certification number is retained is when a coin is submitted for reholdering.

That must be what I was thinking of, but it is strange that a higher grade coin would have the same cert number.  The plot thickens. 

[Coinbuf]

NGC and PCGS operate slightly differently when it comes to reconsideration and/or regrade.   I have never used these services at either TPG, but under one of the options the cert number will remain the same at PCGS, just do not recall which that is or if that is the same result with NGC.   The op did not specify which TPG holder when he asked the question so some additional details would help clarify.

CAC will for a nominal fee reapply the CAC bean for a coin that only receives a + upgrade, this is true even if the cert number changes so long as it can be proven the coin is the same.

So it is not uncommon to see a coin go through an auction, receive a grade upgrade, and then be reauctioned at a later time.

[“”]

I would like to see pictures of this coin auctioned in July 2022 and again this month showing a different grade for the same coin with the same certification number.

[EagleRJO]

From doing a little digging the NGC certification number on their slabs is a 6/7 digit number followed by a dash and a 3 digit coin number. The 6/7 digit number is actually an invoice number. Any regrade submittal would have a different invoice number, and therefore should have a different certification number.  PCG$ apparently will also issue a new certification number with a re-grade submittal.  So I'm not sure what LDH is referring to.

Edited January 9, 2023 by EagleRJO

[“”]

On 1/5/2023 at 4:36 AM, EagleRJO said:

From doing a little digging the NGC certification number on their slabs is a 6/7 digit number followed by a dash and a 3 digit coin number. The 6/7 digit number is actually an invoice number. Any regrade submittal would have a different invoice number, and therefore a different certification number.  PCG$ apparently will also issue a new certification number with a re-grade submittal.  So I'm not sure what LDH is referring to.

You are correct on the NGC but I would like to add that old NGC holders have 5 digits in the certification number prior to the dash.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:17 AM, Simple Collector said:

I would like to add that old NGC holders have 5 digits in the certification number prior to the dash

You are dating either yourself or your coin collection ... not sure which. 

[“”]

On 1/5/2023 at 10:22 AM, EagleRJO said:

You are dating either yourself or your coin collection ... not sure which. 

Both! I still recall when I won an auction on Teletrade for a group of 5 coins maybe in the 90's. I do have quite a few of the older generation holders including generation 8 holders which were supposedly only used for a very short time. (I've some speculation saying weeks.) 

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Thank you all for the great input  Hopefully the pictures are viewable  

[J P M]

It is from a private collection labeled coin. So I would think it would be important to keep it the same with a regrade. It also looks like it has been restored and that is why it got the +

Edited January 6, 2023 by J P M

[Lem E]

On 1/5/2023 at 6:57 PM, J P M said:

It is from a private collection labeled coin. So I would think it would be important to keep it the same with a regrade. It also looks like it has been restored and that is why it got the +

I would hope that nobody would have any of the coins from the Bingham collection restored. His monster toner commem sets were off the charts. I didn’t realize his collection was sold on GC recently. Quite a shame to break that collection up. 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiN3_7E8LH8AhWjkYkEHdbyDtEQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatcollections.com%2Fkb%2FSpectacular-Commemorative-Collection-of-NFL-Veteran-Gregg-Bingham-to-be-Auctioned-by-GC-t471-4.html&usg=AOvVaw295mS459cJhHQIJn4ochRq

Edited January 6, 2023 by Lem E
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[Coinbuf]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:57 PM, J P M said:

It is from a private collection labeled coin. So I would think it would be important to keep it the same with a regrade. It also looks like it has been restored and that is why it got the +

Do you have the source of your information about this coin having been restored?   I am willing to bet that the difference between the two photos is just lighting as opposed to the coin being worked.

[J P M]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:50 PM, Coinbuf said:

Do you have the source of your information about this coin having been restored?   I am willing to bet that the difference between the two photos is just lighting as opposed to the coin being worked.

I do not have proof it was just a opinion. I have heard of coins picking up a higher grade after conservation and it looks like some of the tarnish has been removed on the lower left and the rim looks cleaner. But it could just be as you suggest with the lighting. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by J P M

[World Colonial]

To answer one of the OP questions, agree with others that it's not unusual for the same coin to reappear at auction in close proximity.

As to why it happened on this coin, it must be the toning and maybe the sticker, if the prior buyer bought it "cheap", as I don't know where it sold or the price. 

Heritage shows the last sale closest to this coin (a toned MS-66+ CAC) selling for $1980 in 7/19 whereas all more recent sales (without one or more of these three attributes) sell for about 15% to 25%.  There is also a sale of an untoned MS-66+ in 3/19 for $3600 when the counts were noticeably lower.  (The MS-67 count is 3 and 1.  So maybe a potential upgrade?)

As an MS-66, PCGS now shows 99 grading events while NGC records 43.  As an MS-66+, PCGS shows 16 and NGC 6.

Edited January 7, 2023 by World Colonial

[RWB]

Long ago auction companies graded the coins they offered and verified varieties; they sometimes mentioned cleaning and other defects. Now, all of that - regardless of circumstances - is copied from TPG labels. Auction companies almost never ask questions - they merely move merchandise.

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Well that upgrade paid off for the seller. The coin referenced sold for 1700 (125% increase) more than it did 6 months with the 1/2 grade upgrade  

[RWB]

How did the coin change?

[J P M]

On 1/9/2023 at 3:57 PM, RWB said:

How did the coin change?

The coin is the same only the grade has been changed { to protect the innocent }.

Edited January 9, 2023 by J P M

[RWB]

So...do you mean someone paid more for nothing more?

[Coinbuf]

On 1/5/2023 at 7:05 PM, J P M said:

I do not have proof it was just a opinion. I have heard of coins picking up a higher grade after conservation and it looks like some of the tarnish has been removed on the lower left and the rim looks cleaner. But it could just be as you suggest with the lighting. 

Aww and here I thought you had some insider information.  

 

On 1/9/2023 at 5:14 PM, RWB said:

So...do you mean someone paid more for nothing more?

Nope they paid more for a new label with a + on it, they did get something for the extra money.   Now was it worth the extra money, only the buyer can say.

[Hoghead515]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:47 PM, Lem E said:

I would hope that nobody would have any of the coins from the Bingham collection restored. His monster toner commem sets were off the charts. I didn’t realize his collection was sold on GC recently. Quite a shame to break that collection up. 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiN3_7E8LH8AhWjkYkEHdbyDtEQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatcollections.com%2Fkb%2FSpectacular-Commemorative-Collection-of-NFL-Veteran-Gregg-Bingham-to-be-Auctioned-by-GC-t471-4.html&usg=AOvVaw295mS459cJhHQIJn4ochRq

I looked through at some of the sold prices his coins brought. Looks like he may have a little spending money in his pocket right now. Looks like they brought some very high prices. Thats an impressive collection. He had some very impressive coins in there. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:38 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I looked through at some of the sold prices his coins brought. Looks like he may have a little spending money in his pocket right now. Looks like they brought some very high prices. Thats an impressive collection. He had some very impressive coins in there. 

Very impressive collection and his name is on the labels.  Nice ! 

If he started collecting right after he retired from the Houston Oilers (1985), then he bought right into the Coin Bubble of 1989-90 and the Commemorative Bubble of the 1980's.  Hopefully he deployed cash in the 1990's and 2000's when coins were cheaper. 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/5/2023 at 1:35 PM, LDH Coins & Memorabilia said:

Thank you all for the great input  Hopefully the pictures are viewable  

Thanks LDH, it makes sense now seeing the label as to how there was a grade change with the same cert number.