Full Step Franklin Half 1 1

[Hoghead515]

Anyone interested in a very nice Franklin half with 4 full steps? Even got one those fancy MAC stickers!!!!!! These are extremely rare in 5 full steps!!!! Hard to pass up a deal like this. I figured the title of this thread would catch everyones attention.

I came across this on Ebay. Figured Id share it. I laughed till I bout cried even though its not really funny. Hope no one falls for this. To any new collectors out there there is no such thing as full steps on a Franklin half dollar. They do have Full Bell Lines (FBL)  labeled on the slab by the TPG. Beware of sellers like this. Its obvious the seller dont know what they are talking about and want several thousand more dollars than what its worth.  Also this coin is not rare. The S mint marks are harder to find in FBL but I wouldnt consider them rare. And this coin is not a FBL coin. That 90FBL sticker is a joke. 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hoghead515

[Lem E]

Maybe the bell has 90% of its steps showing. 

[GoldFinger1969]

I know nothing about the Franklin series.... but with no floor for metallic value that supports a $10,000 coin (let's assume that's the real FMV)....this is the type of coin that can get decimated by gradeflation of the series or new legit MS-66 CACs even if it was FBL (what is 90 FBL, 90% ?  I never heard of that before).

You could see a coin like this go from $10,000 to $3,500 in a few years if the supply increased by a decent amount I'll bet.

[GoldFinger1969]

This is the kind of coin that is still probably in tens of thousands of collections and mostly raw....what if a few dozen were pristine and could grade high-MS ?

This is what we are going to find out as the kids who collected in the 1940's, 1950's, and 1960's get up there in age and either sell their coins....or die and their heirs or estates do it for them.

When the TPGs just got started.....those collectors were in their late-30's to mid-50's.  It's now 35 years later.....do the math. 

[Hoghead515]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:31 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I know nothing about the Franklin series.... but with no floor for metallic value that supports a $10,000 coin (let's assume that's the real FMV)....this is the type of coin that can get decimated by gradeflation of the series or new legit MS-66 CACs even if it was FBL (what is 90 FBL, 90% ?  I never heard of that before).

You could see a coin like this go from $10,000 to $3,500 in a few years if the supply increased by a decent amount I'll bet.

This coin is only worth around a $100 or so. Just guessing. Ive seen others same grade around that price. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:35 PM, Hoghead515 said:

This coin is only worth around a $100 or so. Just guessing. Ive seen others same grade around that price. 

Missed it by THAAAAAT much, as Maxwell Smart used to say. 

Like I said, I have no idea what the coin is worth.  And I proved it !!!   

Edited December 17, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Full Bell Crack!

[Hoghead515]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:31 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I know nothing about the Franklin series.... but with no floor for metallic value that supports a $10,000 coin (let's assume that's the real FMV)....this is the type of coin that can get decimated by gradeflation of the series or new legit MS-66 CACs even if it was FBL (what is 90 FBL, 90% ?  I never heard of that before).

You could see a coin like this go from $10,000 to $3,500 in a few years if the supply increased by a decent amount I'll bet.

That 90% FBL is something that MAC stickers come out with. They got all kinds crazy ones such as, "Almost full bands," for dimes. "Mac rainbow tone." "Macs finest," and more. Nothing that really means anything to make a coin more valuable that what it is.

 

 

[Hoghead515]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:37 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Missed it by THAAAAAT much, as Maxwell Smart used to say. 

Like I said, I have no idea what the coin is worth.  And I proved it !!!   

If it really was labeled FBL by the TPG then it could fetch a few hundred more. Ive noticed all the San Francisco minted Franklins with FBL bring quite a bit more of a premium than the other mints. But theres no such thing as 90% FBL. Its either FBL or its not. I think MAC stickers are a joke. If I ever buy a coin that has one on it then it will be peeled off as soon as I get it. And it wont be the reason I buy the coin neither. Now CAC stickers are a little different. I will gladly own coins with those on them. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:50 PM, Hoghead515 said:

If it really was labeled FBL by the TPG then it could fetch a few hundred more. Ive noticed all the San Francisco minted Franklins with FBL bring quite a bit more of a premium than the other mints. But theres no such thing as 90% FBL. Its either FBL or its not. I think MAC stickers are a joke. If I ever buy a coin that has one on it then it will be peeled off as soon as I get it. And it wont be the reason I buy the coin neither. Now CAC stickers are a little different. I will gladly own coins with those on them. 

So....the seller needs to wait about 400 years for the market to come up to his ask price, huh ? 

[Hoghead515]

I just learned another one of Macs Finest. FSBK means," full split beak" on the eagle of a quarter. Ive been collecting quarters for a while now and thats a new one on me. 

[Henri Charriere]

If I never said a word, nobody'd know better, but I gotta say ya got me good on that one!  There was a member here who casually mentioned FS do not apply to Proofs (and I have used FBL to denote Fat Bruised Lip to the Moderators' annoyance) but this had me frozen in my tracks: 

🐓:  How come you never heard o' these, Q?  You're nothin' but a legend in your own mind!

Yeah, Hog, ya got me good!      

[zadok]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:42 PM, Hoghead515 said:

That 90% FBL is something that MAC stickers come out with. They got all kinds crazy ones such as, "Almost full bands," for dimes. "Mac rainbow tone." "Macs finest," and more. Nothing that really means anything to make a coin more valuable that what it is.

 

 

...MAC is the crypto of coin collecting...pure sucker bait, even kentucky carp wont bite....

[rrantique]

On 12/16/2022 at 7:14 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Anyone interested in a very nice Franklin half with 4 full steps? Even got one those fancy MAC stickers!!!!!! These are extremely rare in 5 full steps!!!! Hard to pass up a deal like this. I figured the title of this thread would catch everyones attention.

I came across this on Ebay. Figured Id share it. I laughed till I bout cried even though its not really funny. Hope no one falls for this. To any new collectors out there there is no such thing as full steps on a Franklin half dollar. They do have Full Bell Lines (FBL)  labeled on the slab by the TPG. Beware of sellers like this. Its obvious the seller dont know what they are talking about and want several thousand more dollars than what its worth.  Also this coin is not rare. The S mint marks are harder to find in FBL but I wouldnt consider them rare. And this coin is not a FBL coin. That 90FBL sticker is a joke. 

 

[robec1347]

The auction prices for a 1953-S MS66 Franklin on eBay sold from November and December of  2022 goes from a low of $145 to a high of $310. There was a $376 Franklin sold from a David Lawrence October auction. 

[GoldFinger1969]

So, Hog, let me get this straight....this coin is worth maybe $300 and the Ebay seller wants 40x that amount ?? 

[Hoghead515]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:21 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

So, Hog, let me get this straight....this coin is worth maybe $300 and the Ebay seller wants 40x that amount ?? 

Yep.  The price caught my attention. I was curious so I clicked on it and noticed they were talking about full steps instead of full bell lines. They said that one in the listing had 4 full steps and one with 5 full steps was worth $60,000. The problem with that is theres no such thing. They are tryin to sucker someone. They couldnt be confusing it with FBL. FBL is just FBL. Theres no number of FBLs. If its got one line missing it wont qualify for FBL. With a little shopping and patience you can buy the same grade coin as the one in the OP for a little over $100. Now if it qualified for FBL you may have to pay quite a bit more in that high of a grade. Definately not no $12,000 or $60,000 for a non FBL. Thats some the craziest prices Ive ever seen. So if any new collectors are reading this beware of sellers like that. Do your homework first. Just because people have them priced very high dosent mean thats what they are worth. Also beware of those MAC stickers. Ive noticed sellers trying to charge a higher premium with MAC stickers on their coins. Those mean NOTHING. Like my friend @zadokmentioned, "Its just sucker bait." If you read some of the descriptions they will hype them up by mentioning those stickers on them. Theres no such thing as 90% FBL. If the coin qualifies for FBL the TPG will mention it on the label such as the example below.   Note: Came back to edit. Was wrong about my price for one that does qualify for FBL in this particular year.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hoghead515

[RWB]

Had to have that bargain --- rare fool step Franklin half dollar....and it's 90% silver too ! Really! I looked it up.

Sent them a check right away.....

[GoldFinger1969]

Eagle, if you are here, this is the link to the infamous Franklin Gradeflation thread over ATS.  I know we talked about it in another thread but for now I can't find it.  So since this is a Franklin-related Thread, I figured I'd post it here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/937859/rampant-gradeflation-in-franklins-is-why-i-stopped-collecting-the-series

Skimming through.....it does NOT appear that the upgrades after-the-fact were a result of coins being more valuable because of toning.  The coins were already toned and apparently not a contributing factor in the upgrades.  Plus, toning was already a positive when the original owners submitted and re-submitted.

The 1st page has pics of the coins submitted and they look unchanged.

[RWB]

Excellent link. Also discusses degradation of "AU" into real EF and hints at the price inflation that causes.

[“”]

A 1953-s ms65+ fbl in NGC holder sold for $42,750. With fees in March 2019. A 1953-s in ms66 PCGS just brought $1,359. This month. Both auctioned on GC.

I must be missing something.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Simple Collector

[“”]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:00 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Eagle, if you are here, this is the link to the infamous Franklin Gradeflation thread over ATS.  I know we talked about it in another thread but for now I can't find it.  So since this is a Franklin-related Thread, I figured I'd post it here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/937859/rampant-gradeflation-in-franklins-is-why-i-stopped-collecting-the-series

Skimming through.....it does NOT appear that the upgrades after-the-fact were a result of coins being more valuable because of toning.  The coins were already toned and apparently not a contributing factor in the upgrades.  Plus, toning was already a positive when the original owners submitted and re-submitted.

The 1st page has pics of the coins submitted and they look unchanged.

So. Which grades are correct? I see a couple also had cac stickers prior to regrade.

[Hoghead515]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:42 AM, Simple Collector said:

A 1953-s ms65+ fbl in NGC holder sold for $42,750. With fees in March 2019. A 1953-s in ms66 PCGS just brought $1,359. This month. Both auctioned on GC.

 

Thats amazing how much those Full Bell Lines add to the value. Id say the ones that brought that much had some amazing toning and eye appeal. You can buy them in ms66 for around $150 or so without fbl.  Ive tried to bid on coins in auction that were amazingly toned and went for some crazy money. My main concern is this particular seller trying to sell them for almost fbl for fbl money. Also labeling them as full steps when theres no such thing. I missed the value a little on 53s with fbl. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hoghead515

[World Colonial]

I've seen this seller offer large numbers of hugely inflated South African coins on eBay.  They have succeeded in building an on-line museum.

The reason this won't work is because it's a one-way market.  Any buyer at anywhere near these levels almost certainly isn't going to recover more than a fraction of their cost and the merits of the coin as a collectible aren't remotely compelling enough either

[numisport]

One offered right now at David Lawrence for bidding starting at 28K. Do you think it merits MS 65 ? Do you think it merits FBL ?

Given that the coin hasn't sold yet is it fair to comment ?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:42 AM, Simple Collector said:

A 1953-s ms65+ fbl in NGC holder sold for $42,750. With fees in March 2019. A 1953-s in ms66 PCGS just brought $1,359. This month. Both auctioned on GC. I must be missing something.

The PCGS MS-66 was not FBL ?  That's a key component of the $$$ value as I understood from the CU thread.

[robec1347]

On 12/17/2022 at 7:42 AM, Simple Collector said:

A 1953-s ms65+ fbl in NGC holder sold for $42,750. With fees in March 2019. A 1953-s in ms66 PCGS just brought $1,359. This month. Both auctioned on GC.

I must be missing something.

There was also an NGC 66+FBL that sold in May 2020 for $52,800 with the fees. Even in MS63 a 1953-S with FBL sells for over $17,000. 
The PCGS MS66 53-S sold this month for $1359 wasn’t FBL.
 

One oddity concerns the price difference between the MS66 and MS66+ non FBL. There are 6 of each listed in the GC archive. With the exception of one 66+, which sold for $853, all six 66’s sold for more than every other 66+. Even the lowest priced 66 sold for more than the 2nd highest 66+. 

[Hoghead515]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:42 AM, Simple Collector said:

A 1953-s ms65+ fbl in NGC holder sold for $42,750. With fees in March 2019. A 1953-s in ms66 PCGS just brought $1,359. This month. Both auctioned on GC.

I must be missing something.

The main point I was trying to make when I first started this thread in my OP was the seller is trying to sell a coin for FBL money with a 90% FBL MAC sticker that dosent have full bell lines. And they are using full step designation. They said the coin had 4 full steps and is worth $60k in 5 full steps. Thats a new one on me. Ive been doing alot of researching on these and Ive never heard of fulll steps. Ive heard of it on nickels but not halves. Everything Ive seen says they are either FBL or they are not. I may have missed something myself and was quick to post on it last night. If I did I apoligize and would like to learn the truth.  

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hoghead515

[robec1347]

On 12/17/2022 at 9:00 AM, Hoghead515 said:

The main point I was trying to make when I first started this thread in my OP was the seller is trying to sell a coin for FBL money with a 90% FBL MAC sticker that dosent have full bell lines. And they are using full step designation. They said the coin had 4 full steps and is worth $60k in 5 full steps. Thats a new one on me. Ive been doing alot of researching on these and Ive never heard of fulll steps. Ive heard of it on nickels but not halves. Everything Ive seen says they are either FBL or they are not. I may have missed something myself and was quick to post on it last night. If I did I apoligize and would like to learn the truth.  

Anyone who collects or has collected Franklins know steps are not a thing. Hopefully anyone who clunks down $50,000 on a coin will do some sort of investigation. With instant knowledge only a fingertip away in the computer age there is little reason for someone to get taken by something as well known and well documented as the Franklin series, especially full bell lines and no such thing as steps. Even if there is a percentage of bell lines present, if that number isn’t 100, it isn’t full and never will be. 

[Hoghead515]

I think this one pictured below is more attractive than the one in my OP. Its not got the FBL designation but the one in my OP dosent either. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Im not saying everyone has the same opinion as me. The coins that sold over $1000 are probably very attractive and had some amazing toning that people wanted to pay to get a very nice example. Ive learned since I started not all ms66 coins are created equal. Lots of factors can make them go for more. But you can get a 1953 s in ms66 without FBL for less than $300 if you really want one. With a little patience you can find one you really like in auction and get a great deal on it.