How Would 3rd Party Grading 2 2

[Errorists]

grade this coin? As a Die Crack or a Die Gouge? So this is the ole 1999 Connecticut "Spitting Horse" Die Crack but I think it's a Die Gouge. Just noticed it today. What ya'll think?

Edited December 6, 2022 by Errorists

[Henri Charriere]

I do not know, but I would be happy to replace this coin, with the Glaring Defect of some kind, with a problem-free coin, free of charge.  

Edited December 6, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing

[Errorists]

On 12/6/2022 at 10:42 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I do not know, but I would be happy to replace this coin, with the Glaring Defect of some kind, with a problem-free coin, free of charge.  

Nah! Problem free MS70 and PF70 coins are a dime a dozen now. 

[Sandon]

   Your 1999 Delaware state quarter has a die crack. A die crack is not part of the grade of a coin. The coin if circulated and unimpaired would receive an adjectival and numerical grade based upon how much wear it has and if uncirculated would receive a MS grade of 60 or higher based upon its surface preservation, strike, luster, "eye appeal" and whatever other factors grading services use to evaluate uncirculated coins.  The die crack could be described as a "die variety" or "die state" and would be so attributed by NGC for an additional $18 fee if NGC recognized this variety as one that is sufficiently important or popular to warrant such attribution.  The only varieties that NGC so recognizes per "VarietyPlus" for State and Territorial Quarters are the 2004-D Wisconsin high and low "extra leaf" varieties and a 2009-D Duke Ellington doubled die reverse variety. Most die cracks are just too common and considered too insignificant for attribution.

   You should familiarize yourself with the "VarietyPlus" feature, which is found under the "Resources" tab on the NGC home page. It will tell you if you have a coin that NGC will attribute. As stated under the topic "What is a Variety?" on that page, "NGC does not attribute as varieties coins that display Strike Doubling, Abrasion Doubling, Die Deterioration Doubling, Master Die Doubling (doubling that is found on all coins made produced from that master die), insignificant die chips, breaks, cracks or any variety coin that falls under mint tolerances for doubling or normal die wear." (Emphasis added.)

   I understand that other grading services have similar rules and do not attribute what they consider minor errors and varieties either.  I recommend that you familiarize yourself with these rules.  

   You are welcome to collect coins with die cracks if that is what you enjoy. I have some myself. If you find them in circulation, you can't beat the price!

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Sandon

[Errorists]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:50 AM, Sandon said:

   Your 1999 Delaware state quarter has a die crack. A die crack is not part of the grade of a coin. The coin if circulated and unimpaired would receive an adjectival and numerical grade based upon how much wear it has and if uncirculated would receive a MS grade of 60 or higher based upon its surface preservation, strike, luster, "eye appeal" and whatever other factors grading services use to evaluate uncirculated coins.  The die crack could be described as a "die variety" or "die state" and would be so attributed by NGC for an additional $18 fee if NGC recognized this variety as one that is sufficiently important or popular to warrant such attribution.  The only varieties that NGC so recognizes per "VarietyPlus" for State and Territorial Quarters are the 2004-D Wisconsin high and low "extra leaf" varieties and a 2009-D Duke Ellington doubled die reverse variety. Most die cracks are just too common and considered too insignificant for attribution.

   You should familiarize yourself with the "VarietyPlus" feature, which is found under the "Resources" tab on the NGC home page. It will tell you if you have a coin that NGC will attribute. As stated under the topic "What is a Variety?" on that page, "NGC does not attribute as varieties coins that display Strike Doubling, Abrasion Doubling, Die Deterioration Doubling, Master Die Doubling (doubling that is found on all coins made produced from that master die), insignificant die chips, breaks, cracks or any variety coin that falls under mint tolerances for doubling or normal die wear." (Emphasis added.)

   I understand that other grading services have similar rules and do not attribute what they consider minor errors and varieties either.  I recommend that you familiarize yourself with these rules.  

   You are welcome to collect coins with die cracks if that is what you enjoy. I have some myself. If you find them in circulation, you can't beat the price!

 

Nah! The error is in the field not the legend and or relief.

[NewGuy1]

On 12/6/2022 at 1:03 PM, Errorists said:

Nah! The error is in the field not the legend and or relief.

Quit the clown act troll.

@sandon spent some time writing A great answer and you answered with this    i know youv been told in your other BS posts that die cracks r not part of grading.  R you so dense that you can't understand somebody explaining this to you many times?  or is this another troll act?  I think all members know what your doing and I don't know y they waste there time on you

You really need to work on your trolling game if its so easy for even me to call you out. Try going over to the other coin board and sed how long your terrible weak trolling lasts 

 

 

[Errorists]

On 12/6/2022 at 12:24 PM, NewGuy1 said:

Quit the clown act troll.

@sandon spent some time writing A great answer and you answered with this    i know youv been told in your other BS posts that die cracks r not part of grading.  R you so dense that you can't understand somebody explaining this to you many times?  or is this another troll act?  I think all members know what your doing and I don't know y they waste there time on you

You really need to work on your trolling game if its so easy for even me to call you out. Try going over to the other coin board and sed how long your terrible weak trolling lasts 

 

 

 

 

So the peanut gallery chimes in now.. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/6/2022 at 1:34 PM, Errorists said:

So the peanut gallery chimes in now.. 

You have to admit, @Sandon had gone through a lot of time and effort to provide you with a well-reasoned, balanced response.

I am prepared to make you an attractive offer... Since it appears the cards are stacked against you insofar as your coin displaying a distinguishing feature which would merit a premium over and above its face value, how would a bicentennial Ike dollar (1776-1976) masquerading as an AU sound?  I have a few and would be happy to pick out the best of the lot and send it to you, free of charge. This way, you can keep the equine given to inexplicable expectorations should the tide of numismatic history change and your discovery be deemed a heretofore unrecognized variety, and you can take your rightful, overdue place among the Partricks and Hansens. Think of it as an early Christmas gift from your fellow members at NGC.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing: correct spellcheck.

[Errorists]

Nah. Just curious what a 3rd party grading service would slab it as?

[Six Mile Rick]

Plumbers Crack. 

[VKurtB]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:12 PM, Errorists said:

Nah. Just curious what a 3rd party grading service would slab it as?

They’d slab it as whatever grade it is. It is more likely than not that they’d completely IGNORE the die feature that so enthralls you. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/6/2022 at 4:41 PM, VKurtB said:

They’d slab it as whatever grade it is. It is more likely than not that they’d completely IGNORE the die feature that so enthralls you. 

I've waited long enough to re-use this line:  "At first the gentleman was enthralled, then he submitted the coin, and was appalled!  

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/6/2022 at 3:12 PM, Errorists said:

Nah. Just curious what a 3rd party grading service would slab it as?

Whatever the grade assigned, I believe (not knowing the first thing about these coins) that the cost of authentication and certification, and attendant costs----something that has been explored in depth by members on this Forum, would greatly exceed the value of the coin as to make the effort economically unfeasible. There are some who would urge you to do so; I am not one of them. I take no especial pleasure in reveling in the adversities needlessly experienced by others.

[VKurtB]

@Errorists continues to insist this hobby remake itself to suit him. He has no sense whatsoever what this hobby is and is not. I can’t even IMAGINE where he got and continues to get his ideas. Wherever it is, PLEASE don’t send them to me. 

[Simple Collector]

Unicorn quarter. 

[Errorists]

On 12/6/2022 at 5:04 PM, Simple Collector said:

Unicorn quarter. 

Spitting Horse.

[World Colonial]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:03 PM, VKurtB said:

@Errorists continues to insist this hobby remake itself to suit him. He has no sense whatsoever what this hobby is and is not. I can’t even IMAGINE where he got and continues to get his ideas. Wherever it is, PLEASE don’t send them to me. 

There is only one motive I can identify.  If it isn't the only one, it certainly appears to be the most believable one.

It's to get this pocket change into an NGC holder with the right label so that it can be sold as "rare" for a windfall.

Why else would anyone care about such trivial minutia?

[VKurtB]

On 12/6/2022 at 5:20 PM, World Colonial said:

There is only one motive I can identify.  If it isn't the only one, it certainly appears to be the most believable one.

It's to get this pocket change into an NGC holder with the right label so that it can be sold as "rare" for a windfall.

Why else would anyone care about such trivial minutia?

This truth makes me very sad. This hobby already has far too many scammers. 

[NewGuy1]

On 12/6/2022 at 1:34 PM, Errorists said:

So the peanut gallery chimes in now.. 

No, that was the 1st post 

Geez, ur just so witty in your answers. You know its so easy for EVERYONE on this site to see that your nothing more than a troll and a poor excuse for one

[NewGuy1]

On 12/6/2022 at 6:03 PM, VKurtB said:

@Errorists continues to insist this hobby remake itself to suit him. He has no sense whatsoever what this hobby is and is not. I can’t even IMAGINE where he got and continues to get his ideas. Wherever it is, PLEASE don’t send them to me. 

He comes up with his ideas because he gets his fun messing with all the good members here.  U guys explained this to him many times.  Heck, even a 5th grader could have learned this by now.  I don't think its possible for him to be that dumb. Please quit wasting ur time on the clown troll. 

[Henri Charriere]

Looks like I am going to have to be Seattle Slew here, leave the pack behind, and play a little devil's advocate.  I believe I have our error guy pegged to a T.  He doesn't mean to be abrasive or an annoyance and anyone who takes umbrage with him misses the point.  This is a gentlemen endowed with a circumscribed set of social skills with which to deal with everyone on an equal basis from the loitering lurker to the steady scholar.  He enjoys the interaction.  He means no harm.  He is most assuredly not trying to scam anyone.  He just, is, that's all.  One is free to take him at face value; he can only learn by jousting.  True, he is very dogged and persistent but with feedback he becomes more adept.  He is able to better find his way around. No offense meant; none taken.  He is his own unique personality. No one is obligated to engage him.  I do because I do not detect any maliciousness on his part.  He's paid his dues.  He's at home here.  I, for one, am going to continue to treat him with kid gloves.  Who knows... one day someone'll jump on the Board and say, "Hey, remember the error guy?  You're not gonna believe what he came up with!"  I am ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and can only hope others do as well. After all, he is one of us.  

[VKurtB]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:13 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Looks like I am going to have to be Seattle Slew here, leave the pack behind, and play a little devil's advocate.  I believe I have our error guy pegged to a T.  He doesn't mean to be abrasive or an annoyance and anyone who takes umbrage with him misses the point.  This is a gentlemen endowed with a circumscribed set of social skills with which to deal with everyone on an equal basis from the loitering lurker to the steady scholar.  He enjoys the interaction.  He means no harm.  He is most assuredly not trying to scam anyone.  He just, is, that's all.  One is free to take him at face value; he can only learn by jousting.  True, he is very dogged and persistent but with feedback he becomes more adept.  He is able to better find his way around. No offense meant; none taken.  He is his own unique personality. No one is obligated to engage him.  I do because I do not detect any maliciousness on his part.  He's paid his dues.  He's at home here.  I, for one, am going to continue to treat him with kid gloves.  Who knows... one day someone'll jump on the Board and say, "Hey, remember the error guy?  You're not gonna believe what he came up with!"  I am ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and can only hope others do as well. After all, he is one of us.  

Okay, you do that. I refuse to tolerate it. 

[Errorists]

On 12/6/2022 at 11:13 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Looks like I am going to have to be Seattle Slew here, leave the pack behind, and play a little devil's advocate.  I believe I have our error guy pegged to a T.  He doesn't mean to be abrasive or an annoyance and anyone who takes umbrage with him misses the point.  This is a gentlemen endowed with a circumscribed set of social skills with which to deal with everyone on an equal basis from the loitering lurker to the steady scholar.  He enjoys the interaction.  He means no harm.  He is most assuredly not trying to scam anyone.  He just, is, that's all.  One is free to take him at face value; he can only learn by jousting.  True, he is very dogged and persistent but with feedback he becomes more adept.  He is able to better find his way around. No offense meant; none taken.  He is his own unique personality. No one is obligated to engage him.  I do because I do not detect any maliciousness on his part.  He's paid his dues.  He's at home here.  I, for one, am going to continue to treat him with kid gloves.  Who knows... one day someone'll jump on the Board and say, "Hey, remember the error guy?  You're not gonna believe what he came up with!"  I am ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and can only hope others do as well. After all, he is one of us.  

That's honorable.