Any thing you found in change purchased or otherwise obtained. 2 2

[Sandon]

   I'm not sure whether you mean by a "film" that the 1889 Morgan dollar has a foreign substance stuck to its reverse--which would be bad--or simply has a difference in color that would constitute "toning" (formerly known as tarnish), which some collectors like nowadays. The coin appears to grade About Uncirculated, perhaps lightly "cleaned", but not a bad coin for a casual or budget collector.

 Regrettably, I suspect that the 1909-S V.D.B. you bought for your former girlfriend has an added mintmark. NGC (and others) have identified the 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent as the most counterfeited or altered of all U.S. coins!  It's unwise to buy one of these uncertified by a major grading service unless you're an expert!  See 1. 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent | NGC (ngccoin.com) for the characteristics of genuine specimens. (Right click the link for menu to open).

[VKurtB]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:12 AM, Sandon said:

   Frankly, I recommend avoiding purchasing coins from the internet other than sites of well-known, reputable dealers and auction houses

Ditto. 

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's a new coin roll find I plan to give to a fellow veteran friend of mine if he ever sends me his address but he's the private type lives in kentucky any way this is a 1983 double die reverse found in 2020. Tell me what you think is it to dirty to grade is it worth anything my guess is 15 dollars but I would never sell it I hope to start my friend out coin collecting. Any comments are welcome Happy coin roll hunting. 

[Sandon]

   Your 1983 cent appears to be the doubled die reverse listed in the "Redbook", which lists $150 AU and $200 MS 63 RB in the current issue of Coin World!  This is a nice find and shows that it still (though seldom) pays to check one's change.  It's debatable whether it's worth the expense to submit it for authentication and grading--it might receive a "details" grade--though the certified holder would protect it and make it more salable. Review the topics under the "Submit" tab on the NGC home page.  In any event, you should soak it in acetone or an acetone-based fingernail polish remover, then rinse it in clean water and pat it dry with a clean tissue to hopefully remove any surface dirt and halt any ongoing corrosion.  

[pigeonman333rd]

On 11/17/2022 at 3:04 PM, VKurtB said:

Ditto. 

Thank you guys I will let her know. That is a bummer I never guessed that coin was altered it came from a coin shop in LA purchased on line but they are a real coin shop none the less. I should let them know because they say they have an expert  from ANA on staff to check all coins before the sale of anything.

[VKurtB]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:06 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

they have an expert  from ANA on staff to check all coins before the sale of anything

I literally have no idea what that even means. It’s umm, err, malarkey. 

[pigeonman333rd]

On 11/15/2022 at 7:42 AM, Sandon said:

   I'm not sure whether you mean by a "film" that the 1889 Morgan dollar has a foreign substance stuck to its reverse--which would be bad--or simply has a difference in color that would constitute "toning" (formerly known as tarnish), which some collectors like nowadays. The coin appears to grade About Uncirculated, perhaps lightly "cleaned", but not a bad coin for a casual or budget collector.

 Regrettably, I suspect that the 1909-S V.D.B. you bought for your former girlfriend has an added mintmark. NGC (and others) have identified the 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent as the most counterfeited or altered of all U.S. coins!  It's unwise to buy one of these uncertified by a major grading service unless you're an expert!  See 1. 1909-S VDB Lincoln Cent | NGC (ngccoin.com) for the characteristics of genuine specimens. (Right click the link for menu to open).

Thank you Sandon I will let her know and the coin shop. The coin shop says they have an ANA expert on staff to check all coins for authenticity before the sale or purchase of any coin. I bought that 1853 large cent thanks for your help I really Appreciate you.

[pigeonman333rd]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:08 PM, VKurtB said:

I literally have no idea what that even means. It’s umm, err, malarkey. 

That's because only half the message posted. I just said I would let my ex-girl friend know her coin was an altered coin and the coin shop who said to me in a message that all of their coins are checked by an ANA expert on staff before the sale of a coin. She probably has no clue she sold me an altered coin but I have a record and I could get the coin back from my ex and give her store credit for it but not a refund.

[pigeonman333rd]

I hope that double die is a real coin before I give it too my friend because he doesn't want a fake. I used to think finding a coin in change guarantees a genuine specimen but I now know that's not always true.  

[VKurtB]

I remember the site Baidu being mentioned in this thread, but now I can’t find it. Trust me, ANYTHING that has touched Baidu is virtually certain to be a fake. It’s just who they are. 

[pigeonman333rd]

I have never purchased anything on baidu it was a pop up on this site. I opened the pop up it had a virus and I quarantined it.

[pigeonman333rd]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:17 PM, Sandon said:

   Your 1983 cent appears to be the doubled die reverse listed in the "Redbook", which lists $150 AU and $200 MS 63 RB in the current issue of Coin World!  This is a nice find and shows that it still (though seldom) pays to check one's change.  It's debatable whether it's worth the expense to submit it for authentication and grading--it might receive a "details" grade--though the certified holder would protect it and make it more salable. Review the topics under the "Submit" tab on the NGC home page.  In any event, you should soak it in acetone or an acetone-based fingernail polish remover, then rinse it in clean water and pat it dry with a clean tissue to hopefully remove any surface dirt and halt any ongoing corrosion.  

I will do that before I send it. My buddy needs all the Luck he can get he got hurt in a convoy in 2007 and he only got diagnosed this year. The Navy retired him but he's in pain but craves something he can do with his hands without heavy lifting and I thought coin roll hunting would be good for him. He loves finding old things his wife can handle getting him the boxes of coins he just needs a starter coin for good luck. I was once given a 1909 wheat cent for good luck and I keep it and I find alot of stuff. I have found two of these 1983 double die reverses the first was in 2016 in Vermont and I could never part with it it was my first of what I hope to be many some day. Ive had good luck finding wheat cents some 1930's some teens not yet a 1909 but maybe some day. I roll the g4s and have cased many an extra fine forty.Thank you as Always Sandon.  

[Sandon]

   I can't tell for sure from the low-resolution photo you posted whether the 1909-S V.D.B. cent has an altered mint mark or is otherwise fake.  I said that I suspect it has an added mintmark, (as the mint mark looks like the style used on a coin from 1917 or later).  Did you review the article in the link I gave you and check the diagnostics it contains (position and shape of "S" mint mark and the little blob in the upper loop of the "S"; there is also usually a small slit in the upper serif of the "S")?  My point is this: If you are unwilling to learn the characteristics and diagnostics of genuine coins and how to distinguish them from likely altered or counterfeit pieces, as well as how to grade them, you should not buy expensive coins without certification by a reputable service such as ANACS, NGC, or PCGS.  This is especially true for coins that are frequently faked like the 1909-S V.D.B. cent.

   The coin shop may have a person who is an experienced numismatist on staff and who may have attended the ANA's seminar on counterfeit detection, which is what I assume was meant by "ANA expert".  This may be untrue, however, and/or the shop could refuse to give you your money back due to the passage of time or go out of business. The major grading services provide a guarantee of authenticity, with some qualifications.

  (Edit:) Somehow my message posted while I was just inserting the photo, which is of my 1909-S V.D.B. cent. I bought it in 1991 from an elderly part-time dealer who was known to my family. I matched it to the diagnostics of genuine pieces, then from a counterfeit detection guide published by the ANA and had his agreement that I could return it if INS (a respected authenticator of that time that issued photo certificates) didn't declare it genuine. INS (and recently NGC) both certified it genuine.  Note the shape and position of the "S" and the little blob in its upper loop. The "woodgrain" appearance is also frequently found on 1909-S V.D.B. and 1909-S cents. These are the types of things you need to know!

   

Edited November 20, 2022 by Sandon

[pigeonman333rd]

I did check the link and I used the snipping tool to get a close up of the coin. I don't own the coin but I will check it when I see her again. Their appears to be no blob inside the top of the s like yours has but I will use that link when I pay her a visit as we are the best of friends. I made her more happy when I gave here a pcgs certified genuine 1857 flying eagle that was cleaned unc detail I got two for 200 dollars and I still have one of them that I paid 100 dollars for. I have a few more I would like to post if you have the time?

 

[Sandon]

   I have to sign off for the day now but will get back when I have the chance.  You may wish to spend less time on the forum and more time learning about coins!

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's an 1857 cent that others say they think is cleaned but pictures still don't show the luster in person this coin is blinding with luster do you think it's cleaned Sandon?

[pigeonman333rd]

Ok can do I see the books you recommended I will try to buy them so I can study Thanks.

[VKurtB]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:50 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Here's an 1857 cent that others say they think is cleaned but pictures still don't show the luster in person this coin is blinding with luster do you think it's cleaned Sandon?

Yes, absolutely 100% harshly cleaned. No doubt whatsoever. 

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's one I found in change from the Williston Vermont Peoples united bank. 

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's a coin I splurged a little bit to much for 26.50 a bit to high but it may be more valuable some day its a corroded coin so who knows it might be tradable. It's much better then the coins offered by the local coin shop, their coins are less then g with the date but eagle has no feathers and they ask 45 dollars a piece. 

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's a coin i'm hesitant to buy its online and less than half the book price for a very fine 20 12.99 plus 3.99 shipping. I cant take better pictures because they come from online. I just want to know is it genuine before I buy the coin?

[pigeonman333rd]

On 11/20/2022 at 4:55 AM, pigeonman333rd said:

Here's a coin i'm hesitant to buy its online and less than half the book price for a very fine 20 12.99 plus 3.99 shipping. I cant take better pictures because they come from online. I just want to know is it genuine before I buy the coin?

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 11/20/2022 at 7:56 AM, pigeonman333rd said:

 

Looks like there is a blob of something on Liberty's cheek? I would assume that their is something fishy going on based solely on the price (Below spot?), I'd pass. Is it real? Maybe, but I'd want better pictures. Too me it's just not worth the very small profit to find out. 

[RonnieR131]

 My best find, I thought, was a 1931 S cent from the Sonic drive through one night. I proudly posted it but the S was added on, a fake. I super glued it on my doorbell button.

[Sandon]

   The 1857 Flying Eagle cent is clearly "cleaned", with an "off" color and an "etched" appearance from treatment with chemicals and "hairlines" (minute scratches from contact with a rough surface) showing on the reverse!  If you've never seen an unimpaired, uncirculated Flying Eagle cent, how would you know what its luster and color are supposed to look like?  This is why, in addition to reading good material about coins, you need to go to coin shows and other venues (perhaps coin clubs) where you can examine certified and other coins and speak with experienced collectors and dealers.

   Although there's a limit to what photos and descriptions can teach you, you may want to look at the "custom set" I created on the NGC registry entitled "Characteristics of 'Cleaned' Coins at Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com).  You may also want to check out my competitive registry sets, which depict and discuss (mostly) unimpaired coins at Sandon's Competitive Sets | NGC (ngccoin.com). (Right click for menus to open).  The type sets, which have the most points, are probably the most instructive for new collectors.

[Sandon]

    Regarding the 1921-D Morgan dollar, this is an extremely common coin that you shouldn't have to buy from online from bad photos!  It's probably genuine--the flat leaves on the reverse are characteristic of this typically weakly struck issue--but it's not possible to authenticate a coin from photos, especially not ones like these.  The scratches on the plastic of the 2x2 holder suggest that the coin itself may have been scratched by staples from another holder. It's best to buy coins--especially uncertified ones--after in-person examination. The price is suspiciously low, barely above the current silver value if the shipping is included!  You should seek value, not necessarily bargains, and buy the best coins you can afford!  Although I think that Morgan and Peace dollars are generally overpriced these days, if you must have a 1921-D right now, an average uncirculated piece (MS 62 or so) can be had for $50-$75.

[ldhair]

On 11/19/2022 at 8:50 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Here's an 1857 cent that others say they think is cleaned but pictures still don't show the luster in person this coin is blinding with luster do you think it's cleaned Sandon?

This coin is a bit rare. The reverse die was clashed with the die for the 1857 Quarter. It does look to be cleaned. 

[ldhair]

[EagleRJO]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:17 PM, Sandon said:

In any event, you should soak it in acetone or an acetone-based fingernail polish remover, then rinse it in clean water and pat it dry with a clean tissue to hopefully remove any surface dirt and halt any ongoing corrosion.  

@SandonI recall reading that you shouldn't use just plain nail polish remover with coins, but I would have to do a little digging to find that info again since it has been a while.  I recall it had something to do with possible contaminants in regular nail polish remover.  So I stick with a readily available laboratory grade acetone to briefly soak all the raw coins I get to just remove any surface schmutz or finger prints (even though I use cotton gloves) before I slab the raw coins.  Particularly for removing any finger prints, due to oils on our hands which can degrade a coin over time.

On 11/20/2022 at 10:23 AM, Sandon said:

The 1857 Flying Eagle cent is clearly "cleaned", with an "off" color and an "etched" appearance from treatment with chemicals and "hairlines" (minute scratches from contact with a rough surface) showing on the reverse!

I agree with Sandon that the surface condition and appearance of that 1857 cent is "off", in addition to it also appearing to be cleaned with hairlines, so I would avoid that coin, as well as the 1921-D Morgan.

On 11/20/2022 at 10:23 AM, Sandon said:

... you may want to look at the "custom set" I created on the NGC registry entitled "Characteristics of 'Cleaned' Coins at Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com).  You may also want to check out my competitive registry sets, which depict and discuss (mostly) unimpaired coins at Sandon's Competitive Sets | NGC (ngccoin.com). (Right click for menus to open).  The type sets, which have the most points, are probably the most instructive for new collectors.

Sandon does have some really nice sets in the registry, and I am pretty jelly looking at some of them.  However, I actually found Sandon's "Cleaned" Coins set to be the most interesting and instructive of all his sets, even though he has those other really nice ones.  Probably since a while ago I decided to keep my collections as virtually all raw coins, and need to do a careful evaluation of coins in-hand, including looking for any impairments.  If something is missed or I end up with impaired raw coins in the collection, the guy I am pointing a finger at in the mirror who was responsible for that mistake says "tough". 

Edited November 21, 2022 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:34 AM, ldhair said:

@ldhairVery nice, even though it's net graded! Is that your coin?