[WTS] 1971-D Kennedy Half on a Silver Planchet error coin 1 1

[Taylor7]

[deleted]

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Taylor7

[Coinbuf]

I bid $1, you pay the shipping.   Let me know how you want the funds.

[Sandon]

   Under the Marketplace Guidelines a seller is supposed to "include pictures showing the grade, or at least describe the grade for offered items." The item is offered ungraded and without photos. The other thread which he incorporates only has a photo of the obverse.  A photo of the edge would be most helpful, as if silver clad it should not be largely mint red or brown in color.  I'll have additional comments under the other thread.

 

[Taylor7]

Photos added. I'll take edge photos shortly. 

I've never claimed to be good at grading but if I must I'd say 62

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Congrats @Taylor7!  You just made my ignore list!

[Taylor7]

I'm not a scammer, and I'm not terribly surprised many of you do not believe the evidence I've presented thus far. I simply ask that you tell me exactly what it would take to convince you, not just so I can sell this coin (or set it free by spending it), but so that anyone reading the thread in the future can learn from it too. Lets keep the discussion in the other thread. I do regret my flippant, accusatory tone, but if you'd been through what I have, seen the things I've seen, you'd lose your cool sometimes too. 

[Just Bob]

The edge photo with the view of the copper core that you posted in the other thread is the only evidence that is necessary. Your coin is a clad Kennedy, not a silver one.

[Rod D.]

You have a $1 offer. Take it! 

[MarkFeld]

Why didn’t you post the picture of the coin’s edge that you included in your other thread? It’s by far, the best proof as to the composition of the coin - it’s a normal 1971-D half, not one that was struck on a silver planchet.

For those who are interested, here’s an image that was posted to a different thread: 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by MarkFeld

[Taylor7]

You omitted the picture of the rim which shows only half is red. Quite the oddity. 

So that y'all don't think I am a scammer trying to bait someone into purchasing the coin hoping to quickly flip it, I've decided to raise the price to what I believe is fair market value, non negotiable. $13,700. 

[MarkFeld]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:21 AM, Taylor7 said:

You omitted the picture of the rim which shows only half is red. Quite the oddity. 

So that y'all don't think I am a scammer trying to bait someone into purchasing the coin hoping to quickly flip it, I've decided to raise the price to what I believe is fair market value, non negotiable. $13,700. 

Here’s the other image referenced above (which also shows that the coin isn’t a silver planchet error):

[Taylor7]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:20 AM, MarkFeld said:

Here’s the other image referenced above (which also shows that the coin isn’t a silver planchet error):

 

So what do you think it is then? Have you ever seen a coin with a rim like this where one side is mostly red and the other mostly silver? If its plated, how do I tell?

I'm willing to take down the sale ad until it gets figured out but my questions about exactly what tests to perform to prove its silver and genuine have largely gone unanswered. I did a specific gravity test using both a plastic set of tweezers and then a bent paperclip to lower the coin into distilled water but the reading on the scale fluctuates so much I don't find that test conclusive. A CuNi clad coin is 8.92g/cm3 and an Au clad is 9.53g/cm3 and I'm measuring 9.6+/- .4 g/cm3, which also supports my belief the coin is silver and not just plated. 

[MarkFeld]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:37 AM, Taylor7 said:

So what do you think it is then? Have you ever seen a coin with a rim like this where one side is mostly red and the other mostly silver? If its plated, how do I tell?

I'm willing to take down the sale ad until it gets figured out but my questions about exactly what tests to perform to prove its silver and genuine have largely gone unanswered. I did a specific gravity test using both a plastic set of tweezers and then a bent paperclip to lower the coin into distilled water but the reading on the scale fluctuates so much I don't find that test conclusive. A CuNi clad coin is 8.92g/cm3 and an Au clad is 9.53g/cm3 and I'm measuring 9.6+/- .4 g/cm3, which also supports my belief the coin is silver and not just plated. 

I and everyone else who has commented think it's a normal example.

Nothing about it indicates otherwise and a specific gravity test should confirm that. Of course if you don't trust dealers or grading companies, there's' no reason to have the coin checked out.

Another alterative would be to buy a couple examples of that date and examine their edges. Even though the color might show minor variances, it will likely be very close and hopefully give you peace of mind. 

[Taylor7]

On 10/24/2022 at 6:10 AM, MarkFeld said:

I and everyone else who has commented think it's a normal example.

Nothing about it indicates otherwise and a specific gravity test should confirm that. Of course if you don't trust dealers or grading companies, there's' no reason to have the coin checked out.

Another alterative would be to buy a couple examples of that date and examine their edges. Even though the color might show minor variances, it will likely be very close and hopefully give you peace of mind. 

The specific gravity test in fact confirmed it was silver. Not with a great degree of confidence. Did you even read my post? The tissue test confirms it is silver. The sulfur exposure test confirms it is silver. I have plenty of examples of 60s and 70s Kennedy halves but none which are half red on one side of the rim and silver on the other side. Very curious. 

I didn't say I don't trust dealers or coin grading companies, I'm simply asking the hypothetical (out of curiosity), if they didn't exist and you wanted to purchase such a coin from someone on a forum such as this (where you might not trust the seller) what tests would convince you it was real and how would the person need to present that test (live stream of said tests being performed?) to convince you. 

Very strange how many experts here refuse to answer that simple question. 

"it doesn't look like anything to me" you all keep saying

 

[MarkFeld]

On 10/24/2022 at 6:25 AM, Taylor7 said:

The specific gravity test in fact confirmed it was silver. Not with a great degree of confidence. Did you even read my post? The tissue test confirms it is silver. The sulfur exposure test confirms it is silver. I have plenty of examples of 60s and 70s Kennedy halves but none which are half red on one side of the rim and silver on the other side. Very curious. 

I didn't say I don't trust dealers or coin grading companies, I'm simply asking the hypothetical (out of curiosity), if they didn't exist and you wanted to purchase such a coin from someone on a forum such as this (where you might not trust the seller) what tests would convince you it was real and how would the person need to present that test (live stream of said tests being performed?) to convince you. 

Very strange how many experts here refuse to answer that simple question. 

"it doesn't look like anything to me" you all keep saying

 

Yes, I read what you have written, including this about a dealer and grading companies - perhaps you can understand why I thought you had a trust issue with them:

"The physics of XRF is quite sound, what I don’t trust is the firmware, the stores network security, or their staff. I’ve been targeted by a lot of pathetic online and offline harassment and believe this is one more example. 

The other NGC graded example also weighs only 11.3g so the assertion the tolerances are tight is demonstrably false. 

if grading companies were infallible and or final there would be no cross grading, regrading, or crack out game. 

if the people harassing me can hack a jewelry stores XRF or convince them to deceive me, what makes you think they can’t do the same to a grading company or mail service." 

 

If I owned the coin and despite the feedback I received here, still thought it was a valuable silver example, I'd submit it to NGC or PCGS for authentication as such. Please note, I'm not recommending that you do that, because I think it would be a waste of money.

Best of luck to you, as I don't think anything will convince you of something you don't want to believe.

[Just Bob]

On 10/24/2022 at 4:37 AM, Taylor7 said:

 Have you ever seen a coin with a rim like this where one side is mostly red and the other mostly silver?

 

I don't have any half dollars with me at the moment, but I just pulled 5 quarters and 4 dimes out of my pocket, and all of them looked like that in varying degrees, with the appearance of having copper on one side, and nickel on the other. Unlike what you stated above, it is not "quite the oddity." It is very common on clad coins. 

You mentioned that a specific gravity test was performed. Who performed it, and how was it done? 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Just Bob

[EagleRJO]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:57 PM, Rod D. said:

You have a $1 offer. Take it! 

On 10/24/2022 at 9:33 AM, Just Bob said:

I don't have any half dollars with me at the moment, but I just pulled 5 quarters and 4 dimes out of my pocket, and all of them looked like that in varying degrees, with the appearance of having copper on one side, and nickel on the other. Unlike what you stated above, it is not "quite the oddity." It is very common on clad coins. 

You mentioned that a specific gravity test was performed. Who performed it, and how was it done? 

The op should definitely take the $1 offer as he has a normal 1971-D half dollar worth $0.50. I collect half dollars and look for the rare error/abnormality the op thinks they have, but of course it is not.

In 1971 the mint switched from a 40% silver planchet to a Cu-Ni clad planchet (25% Ni clad with 75% Cu core), but some coins in early 1971 were struck on the 40% Ag planchets either by mistake or to use up limited existing stock. The edge of a 40% Ag pre-1971 half dollar or the rare error coin looks like the attached with a solid silver color all the way around. The normal Cu-Ni clad half dollar looks like the op's coin where most of the time it's solid red in the middle all around and occasionally is a mixture like the op's regular strike Cu-Ni coin where the Ni plating mixes with some of the Cu is spots on the planchet. Also attached is a pic of some older Kennedy half dollar rolls I recently went through which of course with my luck were either silver edged pre-1971 or mixed Cu/Ni edges for 1971 and later, with no super rare finds as usual.

If it is a 1971-D half dollar with a silver edge all around then you do XRF or specific gravity tests to confirm that before sending it to a TPG for attribution, which is a must for that high of a value coin. It was thought the op's coin had this silver edge since all this testing was being discussed, but it turns out the edge is of a normal Cu-Ni clad coin with no extra value.

It is obvious from the pics and the XRF tests done that the op's coin is NOT a rare error and is in fact a normal 1971-D half dollar worth $0.50. He has been told this multiple times by multiple people with decades of experience but refuses to believe that.

These worthless half-baked junk science tissue and egg "tests" he has come up with are useless, which he has also been told multiple times, and are absolutely pointless now that he has posted pics of the coin edge showing a normal Cu-Ni clad coin with no extra value. So, he has attacked me and other members who were just trying to help him asking valid questions, criticizing the invalid "tests" and trying to tell him he did not have a rare error coin. So, he is now blocked by me and others and needs to go somewhere else.

Edited November 1, 2022 by EagleRJO

[EagleRJO]

On 10/22/2022 at 11:44 AM, Coinbuf said:

I bid $1, you pay the shipping.   Let me know how you want the funds.

@CoinbufI'm surprised, you over-bid on this $0.50 valued coin. 😜 

Maybe actually worth less since it's now impared from the "tests" the op did. 😉

Edited October 24, 2022 by EagleRJO

[Coinbuf]

On 10/24/2022 at 12:55 PM, EagleRJO said:

@CoinbufI'm surprised, you over-bid on this $0.50 valued coin. 😜 

Maybe actually worth less since it's now impared from the "tests" the op did. 😉

A moment of weakness.  

[EagleRJO]

The pics show a normal Cu-Ni planchet and this coin shouldn't be listed.

Edited November 1, 2022 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

Scam Artist. Either that or the biggest dope this year. 

[Taylor7]

I'm not a scam artist, I've tried to have a useful discussion about what tests I can do to determine its metal content. I've proposed using ultraviolet light reflectance, exposure to sulfur, ping test, tissue test, etc. All y'all have told me is to do SG and/or get it graded. 

Y'all insisted I do a SG test, which I did, which also confirms it is silver. 

I understand it is strange the edge is red. I am not claiming to understand how this coin came into existence.

If I could delete this thread and take down the WTS ad until I figure this out, I would.  If mods want to delete the threads go right ahead, I do not care. If you want to leave it up, I also don't care.

Has anyone ever had the experience of being approached at a gas station or electronics store parking lot by someone wanting to sell an iphone, speakers, laptop etc, usually at well below market price? The low price is a red flag for a scam, which is why I raised it.

I do not understand why no one will answer the basic question of "what test would prove it to you" or otherwise engage in the discussion of at home testing methods. 

I didn't come up with the tissue test by the way, I saw this post and thought it was valuable knowledge y'all would appreciate, given that it can be used through plastic for example when the coin is in a binder, holder, album etc and you can't see the rim. 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/silver-tissue-test.245035/

 

[Just Bob]

The tissue test has been discussed more than once on this forum, and is known to most members.

What was the result of the specific gravity test, and how was it performed?

[VKurtB]

On 10/25/2022 at 6:36 PM, Taylor7 said:

I'm not a scam artist, I've tried to have a useful discussion about what tests I can do to determine its metal content. I've proposed using ultraviolet light reflectance, exposure to sulfur, ping test, tissue test, etc. All y'all have told me is to do SG and/or get it graded. 

Y'all insisted I do a SG test, which I did, which also confirms it is silver. 

I understand it is strange the edge is red. I am not claiming to understand how this coin came into existence.

If I could delete this thread and take down the WTS ad until I figure this out, I would.  If mods want to delete the threads go right ahead, I do not care. If you want to leave it up, I also don't care.

Has anyone ever had the experience of being approached at a gas station or electronics store parking lot by someone wanting to sell an iphone, speakers, laptop etc, usually at well below market price? The low price is a red flag for a scam, which is why I raised it.

I do not understand why no one will answer the basic question of "what test would prove it to you" or otherwise engage in the discussion of at home testing methods. 

I didn't come up with the tissue test by the way, I saw this post and thought it was valuable knowledge y'all would appreciate, given that it can be used through plastic for example when the coin is in a binder, holder, album etc and you can't see the rim. 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/silver-tissue-test.245035/

 

There is ONLY ONE TEST NEEDED!!!! I can see the copper on the edge of the coin. It is a copper/nickel clad 1971-D Kennedy half dollar, nothing more, and no other tests are necessary. I’m in my 60th year in numismatics. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by VKurtB

[Hoghead515]

I hope someone who dosent know any better dont get crooked by this. It saddens me there are people out there like this trying to take advantage of people. I blame these get rich quick youtube videos for people thats in denial on coins like this one. Even though he can see the copper in the rim he still believes its silver. Or hopes the one hes trying to crook does. I have zero respect for people like this if he really does know. If he dosent after some of the most experienced numismatist in world have tried to convince him differently then I dont know what else will. Just hope noone gets crooked off this common 50 cent coin. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Hoghead515

[l.cutler]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:36 PM, Taylor7 said:

I'm not a scam artist, I've tried to have a useful discussion about what tests I can do to determine its metal content. I've proposed using ultraviolet light reflectance, exposure to sulfur, ping test, tissue test, etc. All y'all have told me is to do SG and/or get it graded. 

Y'all insisted I do a SG test, which I did, which also confirms it is silver. 

I understand it is strange the edge is red. I am not claiming to understand how this coin came into existence.

If I could delete this thread and take down the WTS ad until I figure this out, I would.  If mods want to delete the threads go right ahead, I do not care. If you want to leave it up, I also don't care.

Has anyone ever had the experience of being approached at a gas station or electronics store parking lot by someone wanting to sell an iphone, speakers, laptop etc, usually at well below market price? The low price is a red flag for a scam, which is why I raised it.

I do not understand why no one will answer the basic question of "what test would prove it to you" or otherwise engage in the discussion of at home testing methods. 

I didn't come up with the tissue test by the way, I saw this post and thought it was valuable knowledge y'all would appreciate, given that it can be used through plastic for example when the coin is in a binder, holder, album etc and you can't see the rim. 

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/silver-tissue-test.245035/

 

The question of what test would prove it has been answered numerous times, send it to a TPG. The next closest thing would be the XRF.  If you think there was an error the first time, then get a second or even third opinion, have it done by someone else, pretty simple. 

[EagleRJO]

Apparently, the op doesn't realize that the Ni cladding for the 1971 and later half dollars occasionally mix with the Cu to give you a mixed appearance on the edge, like the attached 1974 Kennedy half dollar on a Cu-Ni planchet I have with a mixed silver and copper appearing edge. 

I have occasionally been faked out by this roll hunting for the rare 1971 on a 40% Ag planchet, and then my heart sunk when I turned the coin edge.

Edited November 1, 2022 by EagleRJO

[pigeonman333rd]

Here's a coin my dad just bought that I don't no if it's genuine but any help on the authenticity of this coin would help so he can get his money back if it's fake. It is an 1896 s morgan silver dollar. The reason I think it might be fake is it has a petina just like the 1893 s I bought him and that coin ended up being fake.  

[EagleRJO]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:29 PM, pigeonman333rd said:

Here's a coin my dad just bought that I don't no if it's genuine but any help on the authenticity of this coin would help so he can get his money back if it's fake. It is an 1896 s morgan silver dollar. The reason I think it might be fake is it has a petina just like the 1893 s I bought him and that coin ended up being fake.  

@pigeonman333rdI would start a new thread in the Newbie section with better coin pics and you just need to state the weight.

Also since you have the coin in hand go to VamWorld mentioned in the previous thread and identify which VAM that coin is and post that too.

Edited October 26, 2022 by EagleRJO

[MarkFeld]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:45 PM, EagleRJO said:

@pigeonman333rdI would start a new thread in the Newbie section with better coin pics and you just need to state the weight.

Also since you have the coin in hand go to VamWorld mentioned in the previous thread and identify which VAM that coin is and post that too.

 I agree that it would have been better to start a new thread, but the coin looks genuine.