Accomplished numismatic goal 1 1

[Mr.Bill347]

In February, 2022,I owned about a half a dozen PROOF SETS. I began a quest to obtain the early ones so started at 1955. Throughout 2022, I sort of made it a personal goal to obtain as many proof sets as I could. I am happy to report that I have completed my quest!

I now have every production proof coin from the San Francisco mint since 1955!

including SMS sets, now over 67 sets.

just think, 

Every Proof penny, nickel, dime, penny, half dollar and golden dollar that ever was minted at the SF mint!

of course special issues like the W penny and the Jefferson nickel are included.

Kennedy half dollars

State quarters

ATB quarters

Sacs, Presidential, and Innovation dollars 

special issues like the RP Kennedy

quite proud I am. I don’t know how many people have done this, but now that I have, I ask What would you do?

crack them all out and put together sets of denomination, types?

keep them for heirs?

send them in as sets for grading (gasp)?

sell them as a complete set?

just asking your opinions

thank you in advance.

[Coinbuf]

Well, first I would not keep them in those boxes, wood can out gas and cause some problems with coins especially copper.   As to what to do with them that would depend, I have some sets too but stopped collecting them due to the storage space considerations.   If I could get back most of the money I had spent on acquiring the sets I would sell them, but that is just me and I'm not suggesting that you should do so.

[VKurtB]

On 10/17/2022 at 5:51 PM, Coinbuf said:

Well, first I would not keep them in those boxes, wood can out gas and cause some problems with coins especially copper.   As to what to do with them that would depend, I have some sets too but stopped collecting them due to the storage space considerations.   If I could get back most of the money I had spent on acquiring the sets I would sell them, but that is just me and I'm not suggesting that you should do so.

Several beers and i outgas too. 

[Mr.Bill347]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:51 PM, Coinbuf said:

Well, first I would not keep them in those boxes, wood can out gas and cause some problems with coins especially copper.   As to what to do with them that would depend, I have some sets too but stopped collecting them due to the storage space considerations.   If I could get back most of the money I had spent on acquiring the sets I would sell them, but that is just me and I'm not suggesting that you should do so.

Coinbuf, is there any scientific proof that mahogany humidor boxes with desiccant packs in each can cause problems?

Bill

[Lem E]

Congrats on the accomplishment Bill. I don’t really see why you would have to do anything with your set. If it were me, I would just keep them as is and intact. Maybe if the coins were being compromised in the original packaging then something may have to be done. ( I am referring to the collection itself. The storage situation may be something to think about.) I would say you are prime for a new project goal. What’s next? 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Lem E
Add

[Mr.Bill347]

In reading about “outgassing” no offense VkurtB, but I did find this article on line at a collectors site. Maybe there is merit to what Coinbuf has said. So how , would you suggest I Store them humidity free?

From the Art Conservation Center at the University of Denver's Judy Greenfield, Conservator of Objects - "Building a Better Case":

"True African mahogany is reported to be one of the least corrosive woods, but it's expensive and difficult to procure, and other mahoganies sold as substitutes are corrosive" (Hatchfield). Additionally, mahogany is resistant to termite attack. There is disagreement over the benefits of seasoned wood. Kiln-drying (seasoning) wood helps break down and drive off some inherent acids, though it may depress the wood's RH-buffering ability (Miles). But Werner cites the Department of Industry's statement that "[seasoning] wood...accelerates the production of free acetic acid and formic acid. Most of the acid, however, remains in the wood." 

So, even if you are lucky and your cabinet is actually made out of true African Mahogany it is still only a lesser evil. While Mahogany is much more stable than red oak, particularly dimensionally which I imagine would play a role in cabinet making, none of this this alters the fact that wood is factually not the best choice of material in which to store coins. I continue to quote from Art Conservation Center at the University of Denver, and this information is specifically in regard to display/storage cases - not so terribly removed from coin storage. And remember, display cases in museums are often temporary and yet these matters are considered. Many of the displayed items cited in the article were metal

"Although some woods are worse than others, all emit a variety of acids, aldehydes and other lignocellulosic degradation products." (Miles). Wood emits mostly acetic acid; formic acid is produced at 1/10th the amount of acetic acid(Blackshaw). Moisture hydrolyzes acetyl groups in the hemicellulose (a form of cellulose, the "building block" of wood) to produce acetic acid. Elevated temperatures appear to foster acetic acid production (Werner)." I don't know what to make of the claims about sanded mahogany - it is also agreed among conservators that all woods must have a barrier between the wood and the display case interior. "No wood can ever be completely sealed to stop emission of organic compounds, though sealants can impede emission." At least one case I saw made by Mr. Nichols appears to have the coins "exposed" to the inside finish, which IMHO should not be inside the case at all. You don't need physical contact for outgassing problems, and we know PCGS slabs are not "sealed" and plastic is gas permeable anyway. Also, the PCGS boxes are "cherry wood finish and are lined with black felt" - I don't have any idea what wood is used, what adhesives, what finish (oil /Varathane?) or what fabric. To me, once closed, the environment in a wood box is concentrated - and the wood just sits there outgassing with the adhesives and finish, waiting to absorb large qualtities of water...now if the box is in a safe.....

Someone mentioned Varathane - "Even after 18 months' drying time, oleoresinous (oil) paints corroded lead in an experiment cited by Miles. As oil products dry, they undergo oxidative degradation which yields volatile organic acids, aldehydes and carbon dioxide (Miles). Oleo-resinous products include oil-modified paints and varnishes, one-component polyurethane varnishes (e.g., Varathane), alkyd paints, epoxy ester paints, aluminum paints, silicone paints and most varnishes (Miles)."

The information just goes on and on...and on - ESPECIALLY about the harmful glues and adhesives that might be used in construction (perhaps more important than the wood and as important as the finish), the fabrics - fabric should not be used where humidity is not controlled (someone mentioned a tarnish retardant cloth - these can be bad - as can certain dyed felts etc.!)...all can be injurious, and usually are unless care is taken. All I am saying is that wood in not an ideal choice, or even second choice for long term coin storage. Yes, this data is about storage/display cases in museums, but most of the problems above seem are mainly influenced by humidity and temperature - variables found in every deposit box and safe. And those are concentrated environments, more than the cases in the above discussion.

[Mr.Bill347]

Darn I might have to buy these now.

Coinbuf, would just cardboard proof set boxes suffice or would these intercept shield boxes be preferable?

 

[J P M]

Nice collection Bill. That was quite a lot in just one year.

[Mr.Bill347]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:05 PM, J P M said:

Nice collection Bill. That was quite a lot in just one year.

Don’t I know it! All in spent about $1,300 pgcs values state about 2,400

believe it or not the hardest one to obtain was the 2020 set, with the “w” proof nickel

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/17/2022 at 7:37 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

In reading about “outgassing” no offense VkurtB, but I did find this article on line at a collectors site. Maybe there is merit to what Coinbuf has said. So how , would you suggest I Store them humidity free?

From the Art Conservation Center at the University of Denver's Judy Greenfield, Conservator of Objects - "Building a Better Case":

"True African mahogany is reported to be one of the least corrosive woods, but it's expensive and difficult to procure, and other mahoganies sold as substitutes are corrosive" (Hatchfield). Additionally, mahogany is resistant to termite attack. There is disagreement over the benefits of seasoned wood. Kiln-drying (seasoning) wood helps break down and drive off some inherent acids, though it may depress the wood's RH-buffering ability (Miles). But Werner cites the Department of Industry's statement that "[seasoning] wood...accelerates the production of free acetic acid and formic acid. Most of the acid, however, remains in the wood." 

So, even if you are lucky and your cabinet is actually made out of true African Mahogany it is still only a lesser evil. While Mahogany is much more stable than red oak, particularly dimensionally which I imagine would play a role in cabinet making, none of this this alters the fact that wood is factually not the best choice of material in which to store coins. I continue to quote from Art Conservation Center at the University of Denver, and this information is specifically in regard to display/storage cases - not so terribly removed from coin storage. And remember, display cases in museums are often temporary and yet these matters are considered. Many of the displayed items cited in the article were metal

"Although some woods are worse than others, all emit a variety of acids, aldehydes and other lignocellulosic degradation products." (Miles). Wood emits mostly acetic acid; formic acid is produced at 1/10th the amount of acetic acid(Blackshaw). Moisture hydrolyzes acetyl groups in the hemicellulose (a form of cellulose, the "building block" of wood) to produce acetic acid. Elevated temperatures appear to foster acetic acid production (Werner)." I don't know what to make of the claims about sanded mahogany - it is also agreed among conservators that all woods must have a barrier between the wood and the display case interior. "No wood can ever be completely sealed to stop emission of organic compounds, though sealants can impede emission." At least one case I saw made by Mr. Nichols appears to have the coins "exposed" to the inside finish, which IMHO should not be inside the case at all. You don't need physical contact for outgassing problems, and we know PCGS slabs are not "sealed" and plastic is gas permeable anyway. Also, the PCGS boxes are "cherry wood finish and are lined with black felt" - I don't have any idea what wood is used, what adhesives, what finish (oil /Varathane?) or what fabric. To me, once closed, the environment in a wood box is concentrated - and the wood just sits there outgassing with the adhesives and finish, waiting to absorb large qualtities of water...now if the box is in a safe.....

Someone mentioned Varathane - "Even after 18 months' drying time, oleoresinous (oil) paints corroded lead in an experiment cited by Miles. As oil products dry, they undergo oxidative degradation which yields volatile organic acids, aldehydes and carbon dioxide (Miles). Oleo-resinous products include oil-modified paints and varnishes, one-component polyurethane varnishes (e.g., Varathane), alkyd paints, epoxy ester paints, aluminum paints, silicone paints and most varnishes (Miles)."

The information just goes on and on...and on - ESPECIALLY about the harmful glues and adhesives that might be used in construction (perhaps more important than the wood and as important as the finish), the fabrics - fabric should not be used where humidity is not controlled (someone mentioned a tarnish retardant cloth - these can be bad - as can certain dyed felts etc.!)...all can be injurious, and usually are unless care is taken. All I am saying is that wood in not an ideal choice, or even second choice for long term coin storage. Yes, this data is about storage/display cases in museums, but most of the problems above seem are mainly influenced by humidity and temperature - variables found in every deposit box and safe. And those are concentrated environments, more than the cases in the above discussion.

(1)  For a sealed coin, how much "gas" can enter the coin holder compared to nearby furniture that might be near one's coin collection ?  I think we are talking such minute amounts that it is microscopic and can't really harm (sealed) coins.

(2)  Maybe this is for raw, unsealed coins/stamps/papers where something can react to "gas" much easier than a metal ?

Edited October 18, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:19 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Don’t I know it! All in spent about $1,300 pgcs values state about 2,400

believe it or not the hardest one to obtain was the 2020 set, with the “w” proof nickel

Congrats...you bought these because you like 'em, right ?  Not for appreciation or gifting ?

[Mr.Bill347]

GoldFinger1969, I considered that too. All boxes are in ogp, within ogp boxes, with dessicant packs, but there is the fact that all wood has outgassing chemicals, such as the cabinets they are in, the desk in the room, etc. however even though the sets are not hermetically sealed, and only have plates and cardboard ogp), it seems like being protected in a closed space with dessicant is far better than them just sitting in a drawer or on a shelf or in an old shoebox.

seems to me that the chance of damage is very remote, however I am considering changing that.

[Mr.Bill347]

Just the challenge, and because I do like them all.

On 10/17/2022 at 9:08 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Congrats...you bought these because you like 'em, right ?  Not for appreciation or gifting ?

 

[Coinbuf]

On 10/17/2022 at 4:01 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Coinbuf, is there any scientific proof that mahogany humidor boxes with desiccant packs in each can cause problems?

Bill

As you found there is some science that shows wood can out gas and have some effect on coins.   How much effect is dependent on many factors, the type of wood, the environmental conditions like humidity, heat, and others.   Desiccant is a must for every collector, but that only helps control the humidity in your storage area.

I like the protection that the IS products offer, and I have for decades stored my copper coins in IS products.   I use the IS albums and the double protection boxes for my copper slabbed coins.   However, while I like, and use them, IS products are quite expensive so; there are several factors to consider when looking at storage options.   If you live in a dry area of the country and plan to sell the collection within a short timeframe, then you really don't have anything to worry about either way.   But if you live in a part of the country that is humid for the better part of the year, or if you prefer a more humid home and run a humidifier, then how you store coins can be important, again especially for very reactive metals like copper.   The type of coins is also a big factor, gold is relatively inert and is not as difficult to store, silver also not as problematic for the most part.

So the best advice I can give is look at the whole picture, environment, length of time you plan to own, and then decide if the IS products are a good fit for your short and long term goals for your coin collection.

And I should have said so earlier, congrats on reaching your goal.   It is an awesome feeling for collectors when they set out on a numismatic quest and achieve that end goal.

 

[Mr.Bill347]

Thanks Coinbuf, I may just make sure they are in and continue to be in a relatively dry environment with dessicant packs in each box. Since the copper in these sets is really nothing outstanding, if they reacted, would it just be toning, and doesn’t that help value? I’m really not sure what I’ll do with All if them yet, but if I get a chance to sell the whole lot, I might. For now, goal accomplished , on the next big thing. At the very least, I have acquired over 550 proof coins and that in and of itself is an accomplishment.

B

[Coinbuf]

Well as with all things toned it all depends on if the tarnish is pretty or not. 

[EagleRJO]

Congrats on finishing your collection Bill. Some of the sets have like 10 to almost 20 coins for the year, which can add up quick in terms of storage. I think you were going a little nuts trying to find some of the larger sets for a reasonable price from the later 2010s and I'm glad you nailed those down.

Just curious if you live in an area with very high humidity where you think storing the coins in ogp within the boxes with desiccant packs will not "cut it", off-gasing (of VKurtB 😜) aside.

Edited October 18, 2022 by EagleRJO

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Congratulations on completing your set, Mr. Bill!  I really enjoy hearing updates when other collectors start or finish collections (and everything in between).  We all collect differently, and collect different coins, but it's fun to share in the feeling of accomplishment.  It's a feeling that only another collector can share.  Nice work!

Side note - I would agree that you should probably rethink keeping your sets in Tobacco boxes for fear of toning the coins.  While the packages may seem "sealed," there could be seams in plastic and tiny pores in cello.  How to proceed (and at what expense) has a lot to do with your short/long term plan.  If you are selling the set within the next year... you may want to save the money on the IS boxes.  If you are putting them in dry storage until your heirs dig them out... It may be worth the investment.  There are lots of storage options for proof sets, so you can try to shop for something that fits your plan and budget.

Congrats again - very cool, and a great "checkmark" in your collection. 

[J P M]

Now you will have to work on the 1935 to 1955 proof sets Bill  

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:23 AM, J P M said:

Now you will have to work on the 1935 to 1955 proof sets Bill  

1936-42 and then 1950-1954. 

[Mr.Bill347]

On 10/18/2022 at 4:59 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

1936-42 and then 1950-1954. 

Yea good luck on that! 

[EagleRJO]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:23 AM, J P M said:

Now you will have to work on the 1935 to 1955 proof sets Bill  

Offf, talk about dropping a lot of coins to get some coins. Those get very expensive, so I can see why he decided to start the collection with 1955. And even that year and 1956 is a little expensive. And didn't proof sets issued by the mint start in 1936?

[Mr.Bill347]

Ya I know a fella that has a 1954 set in OGP box for $130 maybe I’ll do a few more to get to my birth year 1947 (omg) you that old?

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

No proof sets in 1947.  But you can get the last year of the Walking Half, and a 2nd year Roosevelt dime.  Your commemorative is the Booker T.

[bsshog40]

Congrats. I have the clad proofs from 55-2020. Silver sets from 99-2020. I quit collecting them when the mint went too high on the prices in 2021. Will probably just sell them off one day now. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 10/18/2022 at 5:43 PM, bsshog40 said:

Congrats. I have the clad proofs from 55-2020. Silver sets from 99-2020. I quit collecting them when the mint went too high on the prices in 2021. Will probably just sell them off one day now. 

Don't short yourself - the 1955-1964 would be silver.  1965-70 sets would have 40% half dollars. Right?

[Mr.Bill347]

On 10/18/2022 at 5:41 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

No proof sets in 1947.  But you can get the last year of the Walking Half, and a 2nd year Roosevelt dime.  Your commemorative is the Booker T.

That’s ok, I have my registered birth set all NGC. And I don’t have the Booker T.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

what's a link to your registry, Mr. Bill?  I would love to check it out.

[Mr.Bill347]

I specifically did not go after Silver sets. Only have 1, the 2011 plus the pre 1964 sets, and the 40% sets through 1970. Nice to know someone who has done this. Since you quit them in 2021, why not catch up?

[Mr.Bill347]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:02 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

what's a link to your registry, Mr. Bill?  I would love to check it out.

https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/332922/