Qeqertag Avannarleg 1 1

[Quintus Arrius]

The topic, above, is Greenlandic for "the northern most island," or land mass in the world.

But I digress.  The Real Topic is:  verdigris, a word that has apparently vanished from the everyday terms used by numismatists.  So what exactly is verdigris?

One source consulted describes it as a "green or bluish deposit, usually of copper carbonates that forms on copper, brass, or bronze surfaces." The same source suggests "soaking in lemon juice" followed by wiping with a clean towel, as a remedy [for this form of PMD]. Is this the reason why verdigris has vanished from the numismatic lexicon?

Another term that has apparently fallen into disuse, is "patina." Anyone know why? Enquiring minds want to know...

[Tigerbait]

Interesting.  It has been several years since hearing that term.  As far as remedy, I would suggest neither soaking nor wiping of any coin.  What's wrong with patina, I ask?

[Oldhoopster]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:59 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

The topic, above, is Greenlandic for "the northern most island," or land mass in the world.

But I digress.  The Real Topic is:  verdigris, a word that has apparently vanished from the everyday terms used by numismatists.  So what exactly is verdigris?

One source consulted describes it as a "green or bluish deposit, usually of copper carbonates that forms on copper, brass, or bronze surfaces." The same source suggests "soaking in lemon juice" followed by wiping with a clean towel, as a remedy [for this form of PMD]. Is this the reason why verdigris has vanished from the numismatic lexicon?

Another term that has apparently fallen into disuse, is "patina." Anyone know why? Enquiring minds want to know...

You need to get out more

I see patina used regularly on the chat boards and verdigris is somewhat regularly especially when discussing ancients or early us copper

There is a numismatist/chemist who makes a product called Verdi care or VerdiGone that has been favorably discussed elsewhere. He frequents other boards. I believe you can get this product through the coin supply sellers

How does any of this pertain to Greenland?  Do you have a coin from there that you have questions regarding the patina or verdigris?  If so, pics help

Edited September 20, 2022 by Oldhoopster

[Quintus Arrius]

On 9/20/2022 at 9:42 AM, tigerbait said:

Interesting.  It has been several years since hearing that term.  As far as remedy, I would suggest neither soaking nor wiping of any coin.  What's wrong with patina, I ask?

Nothing that I know of. It's a term I no longer hear used the way I used to.

[Quintus Arrius]

@Oldhoopster:

I am going to preface my remark by saying you will undubitably find it to be annoying and/or offensive. Ready? Here goes...

The reference to Greenland, and the topic heading, are what print journalists refer to as "the hook," a wholly gratuitous device employed to hook a reader, and reel him in. Apparently, the hook worked! Then, having achieved my objective, I very deftly moved on to the main course, what I termed, and I quote: the "Real Topic," capitalized, as hereinabove set forth, before formally introducing two terms, verdigris and patina, which I maintain I haven't seen used in some time.

Now, your experience differs from mine. I am inclined to pay credence to what you say, not because I am a functional illiterate, but because you are evidently well-read--and "get out more."

Your mercurial temperament, and the pointed advisories I have previously received from top management, prohibit me from saying a word more.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

The term verdigris is very widely used and still alive and well with early copper collectors.  I always find it amazing (and not in a good way) when I see a coin in an MS holder that has evidence of verdigris (but I see it more than one would think).  This coin is in a PCGS MS62 holder (not my coin):

I think the term "patina" has been replaced with "tone or toning" in most numismatic circles.  

Edited September 21, 2022 by The Neophyte Numismatist
formatting

[Oldhoopster]

On 9/20/2022 at 11:17 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

@Oldhoopster:

I am going to preface my remark by saying you will undubitably find it to be annoying and/or offensive. Ready? Here goes...

The reference to Greenland, and the topic heading, are what print journalists refer to as "the hook," a wholly gratuitous device employed to hook a reader, and reel him in. Apparently, the hook worked! Then, having achieved my objective, I very deftly moved on to the main course, what I termed, and I quote: the "Real Topic," capitalized, as hereinabove set forth, before formally introducing two terms, verdigris and patina, which I maintain I haven't seen used in some time.

Now, your experience differs from mine. I am inclined to pay credence to what you say, not because I am a functional illiterate, but because you are evidently well-read--and "get out more."

Your mercurial temperament, and the pointed advisories I have previously received from top management, prohibit me from saying a word more.

I didn't say anything adversarial in my post.  I just added information based on my experience that could by of use to you and other members regarding this topic. IMO, there is nothing wrong with having a preferred chat board that you use frquently, but I feel one should also utilize all of the other sources to learn and grow as well. I regularly frequent 4 other sites besides NGC. Each has its own take on things, 

The Greenland comment was to get clarification, which you provided

[Quintus Arrius]

[I wish I could experience, just once, the luxury and thrill, of frequenting other chat boards, but I cannot.  Every time I so much as think of doing so, I sense Dena's presence behind me, peering over my shoulder, wagging her finger and mouthing the words:  "I knew it. I knew it! A flagrant display of reckless eyeballing,  entitlement and disloyalty, if ever I saw one! How many points have we assessed against him? 21? Give him 8 more!"]  😉 

[bsshog40]

The Greenland title is what they refer to ATS as "clickbait". Another term not regularly used here. Lol

[zadok]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:06 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[I wish I could experience, just once, the luxury and thrill, of frequenting other chat boards, but I cannot.  Every time I so much as think of doing so, I sense Dena's presence behind me, peering over my shoulder, wagging her finger and mouthing the words:  "I knew it. I knew it! A flagrant display of reckless eyeballing,  entitlement and disloyalty, if ever I saw one! How many points have we assessed against him? 21? Give him 8 more!"]  😉 

...im sure Dena loses no sleep over what u do elsewhere or gives ur extracurricular activities a second thought just as im sure she only has interest in ur decorum on this site...it mite be a good idea for u  to broaden ur horizons...go down the block, buy a newspaper or a book, visit the other sites, get a vhs of desi n lucy reruns....

[zadok]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:59 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

The topic, above, is Greenlandic for "the northern most island," or land mass in the world.

But I digress.  The Real Topic is:  verdigris, a word that has apparently vanished from the everyday terms used by numismatists.  So what exactly is verdigris?

One source consulted describes it as a "green or bluish deposit, usually of copper carbonates that forms on copper, brass, or bronze surfaces." The same source suggests "soaking in lemon juice" followed by wiping with a clean towel, as a remedy [for this form of PMD]. Is this the reason why verdigris has vanished from the numismatic lexicon?

Another term that has apparently fallen into disuse, is "patina." Anyone know why? Enquiring minds want to know...

...as for "patina"...not a frequently used word in coin circles, more aptly used in the world of antiques....

[DWLange]

Both "verdigris" and "patina" are familiar terms to those interested in ancient or early modern coins. They are not used very often in reference to the sort of coins encountered on this forum.

[MarkFeld]

On 9/20/2022 at 9:19 AM, Oldhoopster said:

You need to get out more

I see patina used regularly on the chat boards and verdigris is somewhat regularly especially when discussing ancients or early us copper

There is a numismatist/chemist who makes a product called Verdi care or VerdiGone that has been favorably discussed elsewhere. He frequents other boards. I believe you can get this product through the coin supply sellers

How does any of this pertain to Greenland?  Do you have a coin from there that you have questions regarding the patina or verdigris?  If so, pics help

I agree. I used the word "patina" in an email earlier today and see and use that word, as well as "verdigris", more than occasionally. 

[Quintus Arrius]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:54 PM, zadok said:

...go down the block, buy a newspaper or a book, visit the other sites, get a vhs of desi n lucy reruns....

Go down the block? I am behind a two-wheeled walker: Lift, Clunk, Step, repeat. Easier said than done.  Let's see now, a newspaper?  Out of the question here in this neighborhood. A book? Oh, I remember those... Visit other sites? I cannot believe you would try to steer me wrong! That's conduct unbecoming a member here. VHS? Virtual Hydroplanetary Syndrome. Yeah. I heard of it.      

[Quintus Arrius]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:19 AM, Oldhoopster said:

You need to get out more....

[Your opinion carries a lot more weight than mine. I will be sure to relay it to the orthopedist when I see him on the 5th, two weeks from today.]

[VKurtB]

I read and use, IN WRITTEN FORM, the word ‘verdigris’ fairly often. What I don’t encounter is the word said. Anyone want to help me with the phonetics?

[Quintus Arrius]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:26 PM, VKurtB said:

I read and use, IN WRITTEN FORM, the word ‘verdigris’ fairly often. What I don’t encounter is the word said. Anyone want to help me with the phonetics?

VER-di-greaze.  [I am sure the French pronounce it differently.]

[VKurtB]

On 9/21/2022 at 6:32 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

VER-di-greaze.  [I am sure the French pronounce it differently.]

I do know that active verdigris does have to be removed lest it seriously pit the host metal. However, while verdigris is fairly easy to neutralize with an alkali solution such as baking soda, the spot where the verdigris was usually remains a noticeable dark spot. Better than green. 

[DWLange]

The s is silent, so they word is pronounced verdigree.

[Quintus Arrius]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:56 PM, DWLange said:

The s is silent, so they word is pronounced verdigree.

You are correct, of course! That is the proper pronunciation, but apparently not the one used here in America, or England according to Google (which provides a pronunciation feature) and Wikipedia (which doesn't).

[Several years ago, the journalist Jimmy Breslin wrote a piece on the ritzy designer boutique, Henri Bendel, on West 57th Street, off Fifth. What he found were customers who effected an air, noses in the air, pronouncing it, on-REE Ben-DELL. The proprietor told him the name was pronounced HENry BEND'l. Go figure.]

BTW, how many people know the correct pronunciation of viscount, boatswain and coxswain?  🤔 

P.S. Did you catch member z's write-up about the Roosters? Man, I love this place!  Thanks for dropping in!

[Oldhoopster]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:26 PM, VKurtB said:

I read and use, IN WRITTEN FORM, the word ‘verdigris’ fairly often. What I don’t encounter is the word said. Anyone want to help me with the phonetics?

I had the same problem when I started with ancients. Had the books and was familiar with all the players, just never heard the names spoken. I called tet-TRI-cus , Tet-tri-cus, vic-tor-I-nus was incorrect as VIC-tor-i-nus, and had wasn't even close to Elagabalus.  Dealer Allen Berman helped me at a show and I am ever greatful. It was a little embarrassing as I was getting good at attribution and used references like RIC but couldn't pronounce the names.

[Just Bob]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:28 PM, VKurtB said:

... the spot where the verdigris was usually remains a noticeable dark spot. Better than green. 

 

[VKurtB]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:25 AM, Oldhoopster said:

I had the same problem when I started with ancients. Had the books and was familiar with all the players, just never heard the names spoken. I called tet-TRI-cus , Tet-tri-cus, vic-tor-I-nus was incorrect as VIC-tor-i-nus, and had wasn't even close to Elagabalus.  Dealer Allen Berman helped me at a show and I am ever greatful. It was a little embarrassing as I was getting good at attribution and used references like RIC but couldn't pronounce the names.

Allen Berman is one of my favorite dealers. 

[Oldhoopster]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:36 PM, VKurtB said:

Allen Berman is one of my favorite dealers. 

I've ordered from him a number of times but only had a chance to talk to him at shows occasionally. He was very nice and willing to share info.  I learned a lot from our brief conversations and really like and respect that from a dealer.  Great guy