1922/23 peace dollars with weird surface irregularities 1 1

[Selfmade1313]

I picked these beauties up via estate and I am lost as to how these surface irregularities would occur. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Should they be submitted for grading? Any insight or information would be greatly appreciated. 

[Lem E]

It looks to me like they were taped into an album to hold them in. Sometimes called tape toning. 

[Coinbuf]

These have been discolored form having scotch tape placed over the coin.  Perhaps to hold it into a coin board or holder of some type, this is considered damage and it would a huge waste of money to send these in.   1922 and 1923 Peace dollars are common and coins in this condition are worth $25- $35 full retail.

[Selfmade1313]

I thought it was some type of tape as well however I used a bit of cleaner (I know don't clean coins) however the yellow material is not coming off and the patinas of the coins is not changing..

[Oldhoopster]

Acetone (not nail polish remover) will remove the tape residue but not the toning. They are damaged and the value is nothing more than  common circulated silver dollars.  IMO not worth the effort to mess with.  They will always have the tape stripe and anything removing the toning will be easily be recognized as harsh cleaning 

[Selfmade1313]

I used acetone and it is not coming off.

[Henri Charriere]

Others may beg to differ, but from my vantage point, there is no numismatic value to these coins. One member stated a range of from $25. to $35 (full retail) whatever that means. I feel that is being a mite too generous. Then again, I am new to the hobby. I have been lurking about for only fifty years.  This may sound harsh but me feels that chart featured in the old Red Books is applicable here: standard Peace weight X silver spot. They're "thisclose" to a decent burial.  The Roostermeister has spoken.  🐓 

[RWB]

As others mentioned, the coins have residue from tape. Probably taped to a page. Even after removing the adhesive residue, they will have no collector value because of the wear. A fair market value is about 5% over melt, or about $22 each.

[Selfmade1313]

I am a material scientist. The yellow is not residue. Any of you actually know anything about the J2020 and middle relief pieces? They are still being discovered today.  Thanks for your opinions but I think you need to go back and read the coinweek article on mid reliefs still being found. 

[Coinbuf]

So you read about something where only 5 have been found, went to an estate auction or garage sale and found 8 more of these all at one time.     You should also buy a lottery ticket.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:11 AM, Selfmade1313 said:

I am a material scientist. The yellow is not residue. Any of you actually know anything about the J2020 and middle relief pieces? They are still being discovered today.  Thanks for your opinions but I think you need to go back and read the coinweek article on mid reliefs still being found. 

@Selfmade1313 I appreciate the "humble" approach.  For what it's worth, one poster on this thread LITERALLY wrote the book on Peace Dollars (A Guide Book of Peace Dollars, Published by Whitman).  Sometimes, it is helpful to know who you are talking to before you start throwing rocks.  

But... by all means... carry-on.  You were saying something about middle relief?

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:52 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

@Selfmade1313 ....Sometimes, it is helpful to know who you are talking to before you start throwing rocks....

[Ain't that the truth. Now I know why this is so cringe-worthy. Thank you Ronnie Stein, again, for bringing my, by far more impertinent, remarks to my attention a few years back!  Man, I love this place! ]  😀 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
The usual: addition of that closing bracket.

[RWB]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:11 AM, Selfmade1313 said:

I am a material scientist. The yellow is not residue. Any of you actually know anything about the J2020 and middle relief pieces? They are still being discovered today.  Thanks for your opinions but I think you need to go back and read the coinweek article on mid reliefs still being found. 

Since you already "know" all about these coins and the residue, there's no point in my responding further.

[Oldhoopster]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:11 AM, Selfmade1313 said:

I am a material scientist. The yellow is not residue. Any of you actually know anything about the J2020 and middle relief pieces? They are still being discovered today.  Thanks for your opinions but I think you need to go back and read the coinweek article on mid reliefs still being found. 

If acetone didn't work did you try xylene?  Maybe a longer soak?  

The brown residue looks like old tape residue that I've encountered as well as can found in the archives. There are some other materials and chemists on this site

I don't know if you would consider that he may actually know something but instead if rereading the coinweek article, have you looked the book on Peace Dollars written by @RWB?  That may be helpful

[CIII]

What does being a material scientist have to do with anything?

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:12 PM, tigerbait said:

What does being a material scientist have to do with anything?

completely... how do you say? Immaterial.

[l.cutler]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:11 AM, Selfmade1313 said:

I am a material scientist. The yellow is not residue. Any of you actually know anything about the J2020 and middle relief pieces? They are still being discovered today.  Thanks for your opinions but I think you need to go back and read the coinweek article on mid reliefs still being found. 

You may want to go back and read the July 12, 2014  coinweek article on the sale of a Judd 2020 and other Peace dollar rarities, and see who is mentioned in the third paragraph, he already commented in this thread.

[Fenntucky Mike]

It's tape residue. 

J-2020 is referred to as a "Modified High Relief" not "middle relief" although I guess it is technically correct. I did read that article and I'd stick with the lottery tickets otherwise send them in for authentication. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[Henri Charriere]

[I feel the need for some comedic relief...  This is neither here nor there, but   I believe it is ACETONE that was an integral part of "rinsing," as it were, unadulterated powder cocaine of contaminants like gasoline due solely to lack of suitable smuggling alternatives. The source, if memory serves, was the standard reference on the subject, titled: "The Cocaine Handbook," available under-the-counter in the 1980's at headshops everywhere. If the Strand Book Store had a copy it would be in the Rare Book department. It goes without saying that, if you see this highly irregular post, it simply means the mods haven't seen it first.]    

[VKurtB]

“Middle relief”? Is that what you get when you take your T-Mobile phone into their huge signal hole in Nebraska and you get relief from your phone ringing in the middle of the country? Hey, it’s sexier than Scotch tape residue. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by VKurtB

[MarkFeld]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:05 AM, RWB said:

As others mentioned, the coins have residue from tape. Probably taped to a page. Even after removing the adhesive residue, they will have no collector value because of the wear. A fair market value is about 5% over melt, or about $22 each.

Melt value is roughly $15 per coin, so I’m hoping you meant that the coins are worth approximately 50% over melt, not 5%.

[MarkFeld]

On 9/20/2022 at 9:11 AM, Selfmade1313 said:

I am a material scientist. The yellow is not residue. Any of you actually know anything about the J2020 and middle relief pieces? They are still being discovered today.  Thanks for your opinions but I think you need to go back and read the coinweek article on mid reliefs still being found. 

I’m not a “material scientist” but can tell you that the coins you posted are extremely common examples with a value of roughly $20-$25 each.

[ldhair]

On 9/19/2022 at 10:22 PM, Selfmade1313 said:

I used acetone and it is not coming off.

How long did you leave them in acetone? 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:27 AM, ldhair said:

How long did you leave them in acetone? 

I would imagine the gentleman left them in there "long enough."  When you don't see immediate results, you tend to leave them there until you do.  My experience, of course, may differ from yours.

[VKurtB]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:27 AM, ldhair said:

How long did you leave them in acetone? 

It’s a long soak procedure, nothing quick. 

[VKurtB]

Oh wait - middle relief is the guy who comes in from the bullpen when your starter gets shelled in the early innings. 

[ldhair]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:44 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

I would imagine the gentleman left them in there "long enough."  When you don't see immediate results, you tend to leave them there until you do.  My experience, of course, may differ from yours.

It would be nice to know if the OP understands the proper was to use acetone. Many don't.

[RWB]

On 9/20/2022 at 6:05 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

J-2020 is referred to as a "Modified High Relief" not "middle relief" although I guess it is technically correct. I did read that article and I'd stick with the lottery tickets otherwise send them in for authentication

No. It is correctly identified as "Medium relief" which correctly describes the alterations made in the obverse. "Modified relief" is PCGS's own attempt to co-opt the original research and identification. Their phrase tells the collector nothing. Was it modified higher, lower, sideways, upside down?

[Henri Charriere]

[What a difference a generation or two makes. Hard to believe coin collectors talk about acetone like it's no big deal. So important was acetone in the drug trade, that it was specifically placed on the DEA's list of chemicals prohibited from being exported to South America. I believe the term used was "precursor" chemicals. I don't believe I would have the guts to ask for it by name, anywhere:

DEA:  This you?

Q.A.:  Lemme see dat... Yup!

DEA:  What do you use this stuff for?

Q.A.:  Coins. I am a coin collector.

DEA:  FIVE GALLONS!

Q.A.:  I got a lot of coins. You know. Patina, Verdigris.

DEA:  Crime associates? Co-conspirators???]

🐓 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:12 AM, RWB said:

No. It is correctly identified as "Medium relief" which correctly describes the alterations made in the obverse. "Modified relief" is PCGS's own attempt to co-opt the original research and identification. Their phrase tells the collector nothing. Was it modified higher, lower, sideways, upside down?

Was the term "Modified High Relief" originated by PCGS and now universally used by most TPG's and some references? I agree that "Medium relief" is a better descriptive phrase than the others and fits in nicely with the "High relief" and "Low relief" denotations, but it does not seem to have been embraced by the industry for some reason.?   

A 2021 article from NGC. 

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/9168/1922-modified-peace-dollar-pattern/