I can not find this type of coin. Help please! 0

[Thecosmin888]

I have this old greek coin 10 lepta 1830 I find some exemple online but my coin is slightly different.  The cross is touching the rims and the flames under the phoenix are different. Also the wight is bigger is well. Online show me 15g and mine is 16.2g. Could be this a rare coin?

[DWLange]

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/greece-10-lepta-km-8-1830-cuid-1120265-duid-1331148

[RWB]

Yours is the microwave cooking Phoenix. The other is the rotisserie version.

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/11/2022 at 9:50 PM, RWB said:

Yours is the microwave cooking Phoenix. The other is the rotisserie version.

What you talking about?

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/11/2022 at 8:11 PM, DWLange said:

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/greece-10-lepta-km-8-1830-cuid-1120265-duid-1331148

Even this is not the same 

[RWB]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:43 PM, Thecosmin888 said:

What you talking about?

Never mind....

[GBrad]

I deleted my original comment out of respect to the author even though I had no intent to be disrespectful by simply saying, "Maybe that should be a hint". It was meant to be a joke, but I can now see how it also could be construed as being a smart remark.   What @JKK said later down this thread, I believe, could not be more correct, nor well written.  Thank you for bringing up that point JKK.👌

Edited September 13, 2022 by GBrad

[EagleRJO]

On 9/11/2022 at 4:50 PM, RWB said:

Yours is the microwave cooking Phoenix. The other is the rotisserie version.

Hmmm, maybe it was "cooked" up 😜 

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/12/2022 at 5:01 AM, EagleRJO said:

Hmmm, maybe it was "cooked" up 😜 

Please can you be more explicitly with me. I don't understand what that means. Coked!? That's can be the reason why is much heavy?

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:08 AM, RWB said:

Never mind....

Keep your words for yourself mate.

Don't try to be smart with someone how doesn't have a clue about it. You look low man 😉

[EagleRJO]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:45 AM, Thecosmin888 said:

Please can you be more explicitly with me.

"Cooked" up meaning people are saying it was likely made up to resemble an authentic coin or is a counterfeit as RWB and others implied. A source to authentic coins was provided, and you even posted a different one initially, which you acknowledged that the coin did not match either source in appearance or weight.  If you still think it's some kind of rare variation of the coin regardless of what some very experienced people are trying to tell you by all means submit it to a grading company for authentication but be prepared for the more likely outcome that it's a waste of money and the coin comes back as not authentic.  Just my 2 Indian head nickels.

[Oldhoopster]

Obviously you're missing the humor.  The phoenix over the flames.  Cooked.  Get it?  It's always sad to have to explain a bad joke to someone

There are probably a number of individually cut dies and you're just seeing minor variations. Like early US large cents, bust halves, etc.  Nothing special, unless there is an active segment collecting early 19th century Greek lepta by die variety. (FYI, that's a joke too)

@RWB you should incorporate that humor into your next few books   

Edited September 12, 2022 by Oldhoopster

[JKK]

Pretty sure the OP is writing in English as a second language, and it's easy for fairly dopey jokes to sail past and even look like deliberate mockery. I am not sure why that hasn't occurred to anyone here, but it's worth considering.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:00 AM, JKK said:

Pretty sure the OP is writing in English as a second language

I think that became apparent with the grammar and missed intent of the jokes.

[JKK]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:39 AM, EagleRJO said:

I think that became apparent with the grammar and missed intent of the jokes.

That's not showing from the way people are reacting to the reaction. I also thought it was obvious enough, but if it wasn't, someone needed to speak up. I've seen too many threads on here spiral downward due to simple misunderstandings and ill-advised wisecracks that take no account of anyone but oneself. This doesn't need to happen if perfectly intelligent people will also apply kindness and wisdom of the sort that I've been fortunate enough to experience all the times I've tried to be understood in a second language.

[EagleRJO]

I thought I did with my reply to them above about the meaning of "cooked".

[JKK]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:50 AM, EagleRJO said:

I thought I did with my reply to them above about the meaning of "cooked".

I doubt anyone who found the original joke obscure would gain any more from that, and would probably take it as confirmation that one was being made sport of, but I accept that you didn't intend that.

In case it wasn't very clear, I was not speaking to any one person so much as to the general group. This board has a habit of confusing native speakers' willful semiliteracy (in which they will still understand jokes even if they sound dumber than a bag of wet nickels) with non-native speakers' forlorn attempts to make sense of native speakers' sentence fragments, slang, and other natural colloquialisms. It's been going on for years and might decrease if people begin to see the world through someone else's eyes. I've seen it so very many times.

• Basic question in broken English.
• Receives wiseacre one-liner from someone impressed with himself.
• Decides is being mocked and gets defensive.
• Makes self target in process.
• Now gets a hailstorm of smart remarks mixed with some "calm down, take a joke" advisements.

If we were as considerate about ESL speakers' English as we would like them to be if we were trying to be understood in their native languages, none of the negativity needs to arise. We can save that for the donkeys who post parking lot coins, get patient guidance, reject it, and fight with people demanding confirmation of their errors. Or the ones who claim racism when it's obvious no one knows what color they are until they reveal it. These are patterns one sees here over years and they repeat themselves. I'm encouraging people to break some of the more toxic ones. Message boards that let toxic patterns flourish become virtual street gangs bullying anyone who wanders into their turf just because they can. I've seen signs of that here at times and I think we have smart enough people here (and those who aren't too smart are at least generally kind-hearted) to reflect and adjust if they choose. No one's really brought it up. Okay, I brought it up. People can now do as they will do.

Maybe, too, having taken studied seven spoken foreign languages in my life and volunteering as an ESL classroom aide, I have more empathy than others for that guy right there. Fair enough--but I would like to see that empathy spread a little.

[RWB]

Apologies! No intention of derailing the OP's question. The puns were about coin design and certainly not about the OP's language. (PS: English is my 2nd language, also.)

[JKK]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:22 AM, RWB said:

Apologies! No intention of derailing the OP's question. The puns were about coin design and certainly not about the OP's language. (PS: English is my 2nd language, also.)

Appreciated. In that case the fine point resolves to, if it's apparent that our English (including your perfectly fluent collegiate English, which shows no signs of ESL at all) kidding flies over someone's head, let us work to be as considerate as we can in that regard. We will be a better group for it.

[VKurtB]

Okay, then here is my best answer to the OP’s question. In 1830, all dies were cut by hand, so fairly large differences can be evident. The relatively small differences between the OP’s coin and the reference coin do not bother me. But two other things do bother me. The weight being this far off is a concern, as is the general softness of the details on the OP’s coin. I would have liked to see the edge closeup because I suspect a cast fake, as opposed to a struck coin. The least likely case is that it is a rare variety, and that is what the OP was seeking. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by VKurtB

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/12/2022 at 5:44 PM, VKurtB said:

Okay, then here is my best answer to the OP’s question. In 1830, all dies were cut by hand, so fairly large differences can be evident. The relatively small differences between the OP’s coin and the reference coin do not bother me. But two other things do bother me. The weight being this far off is a concern, as is the general softness of the details on the OP’s coin. I would have liked to see the edge closeup because I suspect a cast fake, as opposed to a struck coin. The least likely case is that it is a rare variety, and that is what the OP was seeking. 

 

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/12/2022 at 5:44 PM, VKurtB said:

Okay, then here is my best answer to the OP’s question. In 1830, all dies were cut by hand, so fairly large differences can be evident. The relatively small differences between the OP’s coin and the reference coin do not bother me. But two other things do bother me. The weight being this far off is a concern, as is the general softness of the details on the OP’s coin. I would have liked to see the edge closeup because I suspect a cast fake, as opposed to a struck coin. The least likely case is that it is a rare variety, and that is what the OP was seeking. 

 

[VKurtB]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:12 PM, Thecosmin888 said:

 

Thank you. Very helpful pictures. I expected to see evidence of a seam from the casting, but I do not. But what I do see if evidence of filing, possibly in an attempt to remove such evidence. I am not suggesting these are modern marks. They appear quite old. It may be a contemporary counterfeit. The existence of some raised marks in the fields could confirm that. I think I see some, but I usually try not to diagnose from photos with certainty. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by VKurtB

[Thecosmin888]

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/12/2022 at 6:20 PM, VKurtB said:

Thank you. Very helpful pictures. I expected to see evidence of a seam from the casting, but I do not. But what I do see if evidence of filing, possibly in an attempt to remove such evidence. I am not suggesting these are modern marks. They appear quite old. It may be a contemporary counterfeit. The existence of some raised marks in the fields could confirm that. I think I see some, but I usually try not to diagnose from photos with certainty. 

Yes there are a few.  in some parts it is thicker. thank you very much for all the help.  I'm just a beginner in collectable coins and I'm honest that I don't know much about.  really appreciate all the help. You are a true gentleman and proof of true character for many people in this group.

[Just Bob]

Much nicer close-up pictures than the majority of what we see here. Well done!

The overall mushiness of the design, the appearance of the coin in general, and the difference in weight put me in the "replica/fake" camp. Just my non-expert opinion. I think that, if the coin were mine, I would try to find a local dealer who knows these coins, or look for a larger coin show nearby, and have several dealers take a look. 

[EagleRJO]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:44 PM, VKurtB said:

The weight being this far off is a concern

Jokes aside that jumped out at me too, but actually doing a little digging on a site I use to check German coins where I am looking for more info, I came across the attached from this site ...

Coin catalog - uCoin.net (https://en.ucoin.net/catalog/?q=1830+10+lepta)

It indicates that the weight should be 16 grams, with a diameter of 34mm and a thickness of 1.7mm which I am not sure if the OP measured carefully.  Of the two basic types the second "10 lepta, 1830" seems closer (particularly with the cross) with even more pictures that vary considerably within that basic type such as cross location, flames, character locations, etc. so it seems to vary considerably.  I do not know much about these coins at all but figured I would throw out there some additional info I found for others with more experience to consider as I may have jumped to conclusions based on the weight difference before.

Edited September 12, 2022 by EagleRJO

[Thecosmin888]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:53 PM, EagleRJO said:

Jokes aside that jumped out at me too, but actually doing a little digging on a site I use to check German coins where I am looking for more info, I came across the attached from this site ...

Coin catalog - uCoin.net (https://en.ucoin.net/catalog/?q=1830+10+lepta)

It indicates that the weight should be 16 grams, with a diameter of 34mm and a thickness of 1.7mm which I am not sure if the OP measured carefully.  Of the two basic types the second "10 lepta, 1830" seems closer (particularly with the cross) with even more pictures that vary considerably within that basic type such as cross location, flames, character locations, etc. so it seems to vary considerably.  I do not know much about these coins at all but figured I would throw out there some additional info I found for others with more experience to consider as I may have jumped to conclusions based on the weight difference before.

on my coin.  there are somehow three flames not one and they are closer to the circle.  and the feathers are pointing down.  as for the size, it is exactly 30mm.  smaller.

[VKurtB]

To me, the general graininess of the fields makes me lean toward a casting. Yes, it could be corrosion graininess, but it seems so uniformly grainy. Corrosion typically is patchy. 

[Oldhoopster]

I have a few hundred pre-1850 European minors that I picked out of junk boxes over the last few decades (copper, billon, and silver) and have identified and attributed..  I see a well circulated copper coin with the typical damage and contact marks.  There is nothing that would make me think it's a fake

@Thecosmin888 It sounds like you've been given the correct answer.  During this time period, many dies were cut/finished by hand.  That means each die is going to have minor differences.  As an example, the 1830 US large cent has 11 different die varieties while the 1830 US half dollar has 23 different die varieties. 

The differences that you see are due to the die manufacturing method.  It is still attributed as a KM-8

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces18555.html