1946 Philadelphia Mint Silver Ingot 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

Coming up on the auction block at the Long Beach Show, September 30, 2022, is the above item, No. 161, 27.88 ozs. (Type 3 hallmark) as offered by auction. or auctions.vegascoindealer.com

The current bid (as of post time) is $27,500, with estimates given ranging from $26K-$44K.

I do not collect these. In point of fact, I was unaware the U.S. Mint, or any of its branches "minted" these.  I assume a slab might not be entirely out of the question.  My only question is how does one "grade" these? Obviously, a pristine bar would be collector worthy, but who or what do bar collectors consult for guidance. Just curious. [Sorry I cannot provide a link; I have only been a collector for 50 years.]   

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Additional information

[zadok]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:27 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Coming up on the auction block at the Long Beach Show, September 30, 2022, is the above item, No. 161, 27.88 ozs. (Type 3 hallmark) as offered by auction. or auctions.vegascoindealer.com

The current bid (as of post time) is $27,500, with estimates given ranging from $26K-$44K.

I do not collect these. In point of fact, I was unaware the U.S. Mint, or any of its branches "minted" these.  I assume a slab might not be entirely out of the question.  My only question is how does one "grade" these? Obviously, a pristine bar would be collector worthy, but who or what do bar collectors consult for guidance. Just curious. [Sorry I cannot provide a link; I have only been a collector for 50 years.]   

 

...usually not graded...unaltered probably a better way to go....

[RWB]

The Mints routinely made precious metal bars from 1857 forward. These were sold to dental fabricators, silversmiths and other trades who wanted small quantities of metal of known purity. To be accurate these are NOT Ingots - they are "fine metal bars." (An "ingot" is a specific dimension metal bar once used to roll out strips for cutting blanks.)

[Henri Charriere]

@RWB:

In my mind's eye I thought a silver bar like those bearing the Engelhard hallmark were standard size and filed down after production.  But this has an odd weight making it unique. Henceforth, I am going refer to these bars, as "outgots," as they are custom-made pours, with varying dimensions. I assume the year the Mint began fabrication of these bars (1857) and the sinking of the S.S. CENTRAL AMERICA, which carried a boatload of such bars, many from hitherto unknown assayers, was entirely coincidental.

  🤔 

[RWB]

On 9/6/2022 at 7:22 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

as they are custom-made pours,

They were not really custom made. Small bars were poured from nearly empty crucibles so that there was less waste to remelt. This was common for gold and silver, but usually 5 oz or more. Little different than private refinery bars....but cheaper to purchase for merchants.

[CaptHenway]

They are kidding on that estimate, right? I used to own this little 49.04 Tr. Oz. New York Assay Office bar dated 1950 in my birth year set and it was not worth multiples of melt!

 

 

[DWLange]

Mint bars have been bringing very high prices for several years now. I wanted one from the San Francisco Mint (my home town) and never even got close.

[Nouzillet]

The San Francisco Branch Mint was returning gold bars to her customers right from the start in April of 1854. For the year, only a handful of these returned bars were refined, most were unparted with no attempt being made to separate the silver from the native gold. I know that the Philadelphia Mint had returned gold bars poured from California gold to her customers in 1853. They were reportedly stamped with their weight and fineness and also carried a glued on paper label with them, or sort of a memorandum.  Beginning in 1856, the San Francisco Mint also paid out some silver bars to her depositors. 

If the S.S. Central America had sunk in 1856, there would have been a decent chance that she carried some San Francisco Branch Mint gold bars in her treasure hold. In 1857, the S.F.B.M. had returned zero gold bars to her customers.

Letter from the Archives

Mint of the United States Philadelphia November 5, 1853 Sir: I forward to you on the 3rd instant, by Adams & Co. Express, a Box containing the stamps for the gold bars-letters, and figures, and a large set of figures for the Melter & Refiner, which I hope will reach you in good order and in time for your contemplated commencement of operations on the 1st of February next.

I am respectfully Yours, (signed) James Ross Snowden Director.

Dr. L.A. Birdsall Supt. Branch Mint Cal

DWL my late grandmother and father were both born in San Francisco....  

 

 

   

     

[RWB]

Nice historical quote!

[DWLange]

I could see a bar from the 1850s being worth a lot, but the ones I sought were from the 1950s and still priced very high.

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/6/2022 at 8:04 PM, CaptHenway said:

They are kidding on that estimate, right? I used to own this little 49.04 Tr. Oz. New York Assay Office bar dated 1950 in my birth year set and it was not worth multiples of melt!

 

 

Your bar is gold; theirs is silver. I have no idea if the projected price range is right for silver, that bar, or for the number actually fabricated.

[Henri Charriere]

[I hope that much esteemed member, the one brandishing "band-width," chimes in. I am trying to redeem myself here with information which would be of general interest to the collector community.]  

[RWB]

Small bars were made to be used, not stored. So...they were used and very few survive. hence the unusual demand.

[Henri Charriere]

FWIW... For those who may have a passing interest in [what member RWB more properly terms a "fine metal bar" as opposed to an "ingot,"] the current bid on this 1946 silver item has moved up a few notches to $31,000, as of post time.  The spread in estimates given remains in the 26K - 44K range.  The auction is scheduled for this Friday, September 30, 2022 in Long Beach, CA. at 17:00 hours PT.