What's Up With Crypto? 3 3

[gmarguli]

Down even more right now. BTC at $17,749 and Ether at $897.

[VKurtB]

What’s UP with crypto? From a quick look, I’d say not very much at all. 

[GoldFinger1969]

We'll have to wait until Tuesday to see if the off-hours trades are reflective of an active market, but if you want to read about what happened....

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/18/bitcoin-price-drops-below-18600-as-sell-off-accelerates.html

[World Colonial]

As of now, BTC has recovered to just under $20,000.  

Exhibit one why it will never be a functioning currency.  No one can possibly use it to finance an organization with volatility like that.

[Alex in PA.]

Oh great and wise Crypto Currency  holders have no fear of a collapse.  I'm told that a little cream and sugar and it tastes just like Shredded Wheat,

[VKurtB]

On 6/19/2022 at 7:17 AM, World Colonial said:

As of now, BTC has recovered to just under $20,000.  

Exhibit one why it will never be a functioning currency.  No one can possibly use it to finance an organization with volatility like that.

Not a LEGAL organization certainly. 

[Henri Charriere]

[Believe it or not, a lot of optimistic things have been written about this currency from the crypt. Unfortunately, it is not written in layman's language. I am convinced this "you just have to wait a little longer [and invest more money while doing so]" spiel was specifically directed at those who have already suffered catastrophic losses. If there is anyone on the Forum who has dabbled in this he has kept it to himself.]

Edited June 25, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing: additional of closing bracket.

[VKurtB]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:31 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Believe it or not, a lot of optimistic things have been written about this currency from the crypt. Unfortunately, it is not written in layman's language. I am convinced this "you just have to wait a little longer [and invest more money while doing so]" spiel was specifically directed at those who have already suffered catastrophic losses. If there is anyone on the Forum who has dabbled in this he has kept it to himself.]

If you ever hear I’m dabbling in crypto, have the DEA track me down. I’m obviously cooking meth. 

[Henri Charriere]

Cut my cable, so I am back to Frequency Modulation. (That's FM radio to all the oldies and newbies out there.) 

Some eight months after crypto peaked, it reportedly crashed in a spectacular meltdown: $2 TRILLION DOLLARS, a virtual market wipeout.

An SEC official in the former administration, speaking privately, and a spokeswoman for "Web 3," whatever that may be, spoke for one hour with a moderator, neither side conceding anything but both agreeing "regulation" was needed. One listener who readily conceded he had lost "a ton of money," made vague references to a Ponzi-like scheme and another leapt on Elon Musk's recent announcement [to 80 million Twitter followers] that his comment that this crypto ecosystem was "bad for the environment" resulting in a 15% loss of value was actionable suggesting he ought to be brought up on criminal charges.

As I have stated before, I know nothing about crypto, but statistics bandied about surprised me: 1 in 6 Americans have at one time or another invested in crypto and if I understood what I heard correctly, half of all American men under the age of 49, have too. How they were able to determine that eludes me.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/24/2022 at 11:43 AM, DorianReborn said:

The euro and the US dollar are the two currencies that are exchanged on the foreign exchange market the most often. Currency combinations that include the euro and the pound are also rather common. The bulk of these deals are conducted by private individuals and financial institutions with the expectation that the value of the currencies they buy will rise relative to the currencies they sell in the near future. The trading of foreign currency by financial institutions, on the other hand, takes place on a worldwide scale and includes banks from all over the globe. However, when you first start trading on the FX market https://primexbt.com/for-traders/benefits-of-forex-trading/, there are a number of hazards that you should try to avoid at all costs.

I believe the dollar trades a few TRILLION a day now.  Gold futures, by comparison, might do $50 billion daily globally.

Back in 1979-80, they each did about a billion dollars daily.  So gold trades about 50x as frequently but foreign exchange/dollar trades about 3,000x as much.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:02 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Some eight months after crypto peaked, it reportedly crashed in a spectacular meltdown: $2 TRILLION DOLLARS, a virtual market wipeout.

I think the losses are about $1 trillion, but point made.

On 7/8/2022 at 10:02 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

An SEC official in the former administration, speaking privately, and a spokeswoman for "Web 3," whatever that may be, spoke for one hour with a moderator, neither side conceding anything but both agreeing "regulation" was needed. One listener who readily conceded he had lost "a ton of money," made vague references to a Ponzi-like scheme and another leapt on Elon Musk's recent announcement [to 80 million Twitter followers] that his comment that this crypto ecosystem was "bad for the environment" resulting in a 15% loss of value was actionable suggesting he ought to be brought up on criminal charges.

Web 3 is the next version of the internet which is something of a combination of the metaverse, blockchain, and open source -- and I have no idea what I just typed.   If Web 3 can put Google, Twitter, and Facebook out of business or re-do how we do e-commerce, I wanna see it first.

As for the debate on crypto....ever notice that "regulation" is needed when prices DECLINE but not when they GO UP !!???!! 

The investor who lost money should blame him or herself, not Elon Musk.  He just figured out NOW that crypto may be a Ponzi Scheme ?  

Musk's environment tweet must have been on the electricity used to mine BitCoin and other cryptos.  I believe he made it a while back....not aware of any recent 15% drop in prices.  

Actionable  ?  Criminal charges ?  For what....offering an opinion ?  People need to look in the mirror when they are separated from their money.

[World Colonial]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think the losses are about $1 trillion, but point made.

I also heard $2T.

On 7/8/2022 at 11:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Web 3 is the next version of the internet which is something of a combination of the metaverse, blockchain, and open source -- and I have no idea what I just typed.   If Web 3 can put Google, Twitter, and Facebook out of business or re-do how we do e-commerce, I wanna see it first.

The "metaverse" is a farce.  It's a fantasy alternate "reality" where Meta (Facebook) pretends that nothing is something.  It's as bad as NFT (at least) and worse than crypto.  Entirely appropriate in a culture which is increasingly detached from reality.

On 7/8/2022 at 11:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As for the debate on crypto....ever notice that "regulation" is needed when prices DECLINE but not when they GO UP !!???!! 

It's only an amazing "coincidence".  I'm not against some regulation in principle but notice that it's yet another example of asking to close the barn door after the proverbial horses have bolted?  That's the history of financial regulation.  Anyone who doesn't believe me, go look it up.  Regulation is always passed to supposedly prevent the crisis that already happened. 

The worst aspect of modern regulation is the widespread (and in some segments of society, near universal) belief that it's a solution for mostly government created moral hazard in our guaranteed designed-to-fail financial system.

On 7/8/2022 at 11:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The investor who lost money should blame him or herself, not Elon Musk.  He just figured out NOW that crypto may be a Ponzi Scheme ?  

No, not maybe.  All crypto does is transfer wealth between participants.  It doesn't create anything and it's not even a real functioning currency.

On 7/8/2022 at 11:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Musk's environment tweet must have been on the electricity used to mine BitCoin and other cryptos.  I believe he made it a while back....not aware of any recent 15% drop in prices.  

That's what the first thing which makes BTC and any other crypto requiring "mining" such a farce.  It's idiotic to waste real resources (energy) for literally nothing.

On 7/8/2022 at 11:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Actionable  ?  Criminal charges ?  For what....offering an opinion ?  People need to look in the mirror when they are separated from their money.

Another farce

[zadok]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:26 AM, World Colonial said:

I also heard $2T.

The "metaverse" is a farce.  It's a fantasy alternate "reality" where Meta (Facebook) pretends that nothing is something.  It's as bad as NFT (at least) and worse than crypto.  Entirely appropriate in a culture which is increasingly detached from reality.

It's only an amazing "coincidence".  I'm not against some regulation in principle but notice that it's yet another example of asking to close the barn door after the proverbial horses have bolted?  That's the history of financial regulation.  Anyone who doesn't believe me, go look it up.  Regulation is always passed to supposedly prevent the crisis that already happened. 

The worst aspect of modern regulation is the widespread (and in some segments of society, near universal) belief that it's a solution for mostly government created moral hazard in our guaranteed designed-to-fail financial system.

No, not maybe.  All crypto does is transfer wealth between participants.  It doesn't create anything and it's not even a real functioning currency.

That's what the first thing which makes BTC and any other crypto requiring "mining" such a farce.  It's idiotic to waste real resources (energy) for literally nothing.

Another farce

...WC whats ur reccommendation i do with my time share i just bought for the metaverse?...also, cant seem to locate its gps coords on google search, hmmmm?....

[zadok]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:05 AM, zadok said:

...WC whats ur reccommendation i do with my time share i just bought for the metaverse?...also, cant seem to locate its gps coords on google search, hmmmm?....

...maybe goldfinger will buy it as a soft investment, but it doesnt pay dividends...fine print says mnx fees open ended, assuming that means good ventilation....

[Henri Charriere]

@GoldFinger1969:

Re $2T, or 1T...

The former figure was cited repeatedly in last night's radio broadcast, and I believe the discrepancy is my failure to re-state clearly that losses had already occurred which inspired this thread. The $2T figure represents not the most recent daily loss but cumulative losses, in aggregate, from BTC's highest peak attained eight months ago in November 2021.

What I had hoped for was a reply from someone, anyone, who having sustained previous losses, continued to maintain I simply do not understand the phenomenon (I don't) and that one must BUY when any gains are wiped out. It appears most, unfamiliar with the "pseudo-product," chose to flee.

Such a one has yet to respond here in support of his highly speculative, wildly fluctuating participation which @GoldFinger1969 aptly refuses to call an "investment" or "currency."  I caught a good 40 minutes of the broadcast listening to three professional women who, regrettably for me, spoke in terms I did not upstand in a cool, call and collected manner. None of the listeners who called in seemed to be upset or agitated. What am I missing here?

[World Colonial]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:02 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I caught a good 40 minutes of the broadcast listening to three professional women who, regrettably for me, spoke in terms I did not upstand in a cool, call and collected manner. None of the listeners who called in seemed to be upset or agitated. What am I missing here?

Not familiar with the broadcast to which you refer, but if it was focused on or primarily about crypto, it's consistent with the sentiments I infer.

Crypto (including BTC) crashed (close to) an equivalent amount from late 2017 to mid-2019, actually somewhat more percentage wise.  That probably accounts for part of any current complacency.

More generally, it's the best indication of manic psychology.  True believers still believing that nothing is something and that somehow, all who "hold the faith" will become rich, or something like that.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:05 AM, zadok said:

...WC whats ur reccommendation i do with my time share i just bought for the metaverse?...also, cant seem to locate its gps coords on google search, hmmmm?....

I'm waiting for holodecks like in Star Trek:  TNG. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:02 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Such a one has yet to respond here in support of his highly speculative, wildly fluctuating participation which @GoldFinger1969 aptly refuses to call an "investment" or "currency."  I caught a good 40 minutes of the broadcast listening to three professional women who, regrettably for me, spoke in terms I did not upstand in a cool, call and collected manner. None of the listeners who called in seemed to be upset or agitated. What am I missing here?

BARRON'S -- which is not given to scams -- has had some good interviews and panel discussions on crypto and BitCoin the last few months.  There is PROBABLY a place for it -- but whether that place is with BTC at $5,000 or $50,000 or $500,000 I have no freakin' idea.

When you have an "expert" on crypto/BTC from a respected Wall Street firm which doesn't need to plug them....that's more credible....these crypto or digital brokers who are 100% invested and immersed in crypto have an obvious bias.

I want to see a guy who made his $$$ the hard way -- Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Ray Dalio, Steve Cohen, David Tepper, a Walton family member, etc. -- put a nice chunk of their net worth into crypto/BTC.  Until then......

[zadok]

On 7/9/2022 at 11:23 AM, World Colonial said:

Not familiar with the broadcast to which you refer, but if it was focused on or primarily about crypto, it's consistent with the sentiments I infer.

Crypto (including BTC) crashed (close to) an equivalent amount from late 2017 to mid-2019, actually somewhat more percentage wise.  That probably accounts for part of any current complacency.

More generally, it's the best indication of manic psychology.  True believers still believing that nothing is something and that somehow, all who "hold the faith" will become rich, or something like that.

...does that mean i should sell or hold my enron?....

[World Colonial]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:10 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

When you have an "expert" on crypto/BTC from a respected Wall Street firm which doesn't need to plug them....that's more credible....these crypto or digital brokers who are 100% invested and immersed in crypto have an obvious bias.

Also depends upon what you mean by "respected".

I have a lot less respect for a firm like Goldman Sach's than I did a few decades ago.  Not really that much different for the other major firms either.

If a "respected" Wall Street firm is peddling crypto, as far as I am concerned, they are either lying and know it or have been infected with the same manic psychology.  Less than the "true believers" but only in degree.  

BTC isn't and never will be a legitimate functioning currency, at any scale.  It's impossible when the "value" fluctuates so radically even within a single day.

The other most widely used argument is when it's confused with blockchain.  Ok, blockchain has some utility but it's still commodity-like and it's not the same thing as crypto anyway.  No one has a monopoly on blockchain where they can corner the market and charge a monopoly price for it, much less eliminate all alternatives, including the ones which exist now.

On another blog where I post, someone mentioned Ether and smart contracts which is just one usage for blockchain.  Big deal, it's another commodity product where no one has a monopoly on it either.  So, using that as an argument for why it should be worth current price (much less a lot more) is another rationalization.

I can see blockchain and smart contracts gaining widespread acceptance.  I can also see both being (virtually) given away, just like free encryption software now.  Regardless, the usage of these two (widespread or not) has nothing to do with the price of any crypto.

[World Colonial]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:46 PM, zadok said:

...does that mean i should sell or hold my enron?....

Actually, I'd buy more if I were you.

[Henri Charriere]

[Duplicate post; my error.]

 

On 7/9/2022 at 2:41 PM, World Colonial said:

Actually, I'd buy more if I were you.

Re Enron... "not dubious accounting practices,...nor golden parachutes offered to departing chief executive officers,...nor theft of employees' pensions. The biggest mistake Enron made was doing all of this on U.S. soil to Americans. (from a quote embedded in Googleland.)

Edited July 9, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing: add missing word..

[Henri Charriere]

FWIW... As many members who follow this topic are aware, Elon Musk, with a purported 80 million Twitter followers, has now backed out of a deal to buy it for $44B, citing a "material breach," in the terms or conditions agreed to.  (As previously noted, a listener to a radio broadcast called in to say a previous announcement by Musk had resulted in a 15% drop [hiccup] in earnings which apparently wiped out his "investment" and forced him to return to work [for a living]. This is what happens when the uninformed latch on to every word uttered by a person who has developed a large following. So this continues to be a work in progress. As for me, I am content with listening and learning.)

[zadok]

On 7/9/2022 at 2:56 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

[Duplicate post; my error.]

 

Re Enron... "not dubious accounting practices,...nor golden parachutes offered to departing chief executive officers,...nor theft of employees' pensions. The biggest mistake Enron made was doing all of this on U.S. soil to Americans. (from a quote embedded in Googleland.)

...sounds like the US mint n their commemorative selling techniques....

[zadok]

On 7/9/2022 at 6:44 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

FWIW... As many members who follow this topic are aware, Elon Musk, with a purported 80 million Twitter followers, has now backed out of a deal to buy it for $44B, citing a "material breach," in the terms or conditions agreed to.  (As previously noted, a listener to a radio broadcast called in to say a previous announcement by Musk had resulted in a 15% drop [hiccup] in earnings which apparently wiped out his "investment" and forced him to return to work [for a living]. This is what happens when the uninformed latch on to every word uttered by a person who has developed a large following. So this continues to be a work in progress. As for me, I am content with listening and learning.)

...sounds like some numismatic authors ive heard about...ur on a roll QA....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:46 PM, zadok said:

...does that mean i should sell or hold my enron?....

Never forget that Enron was a legit company...had real assets....the fraud hit years later once they spun off the tangible, real assets into what is today EOG Resources, a leading E&P fracker/oil/gas company.

EOG stands for Enron Oil & Gas (or at least used to). 

[zadok]

On 7/10/2022 at 10:10 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Never forget that Enron was a legit company...had real assets....the fraud hit years later once they spun off the tangible, real assets into what is today EOG Resources, a leading E&P fracker/oil/gas company.

EOG stands for Enron Oil & Gas (or at least used to). 

...ive been heavily invested in oil/gas for decades actually still am, ditto tobacco n mining, but never bought any enron but one my 401k's did n doubled down n lost their butts, i just never liked their business style much preferred royal dutch...did exceptionally well in the fracking part still reaping residuals...did well on those storage tankers during the storage sparcity but u had to get in n get out at the right time for those, fortunately i gauged it correctly....

[VKurtB]

On 7/10/2022 at 12:58 PM, zadok said:

...ive been heavily invested in oil/gas for decades actually still am, ditto tobacco n mining, but never bought any enron but one my 401k's did n doubled down n lost their butts, i just never liked their business style much preferred royal dutch...did exceptionally well in the fracking part still reaping residuals...did well on those storage tankers during the storage sparcity but u had to get in n get out at the right time for those, fortunately i gauged it correctly....

They must walk funny without their butts. 

[zadok]

On 7/10/2022 at 2:07 PM, VKurtB said:

They must walk funny without their butts. 

...i think its called waddle...

Edited July 10, 2022 by zadok
spelling...

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/10/2022 at 1:58 PM, zadok said:

...ive been heavily invested in oil/gas for decades actually still am, ditto tobacco n mining, but never bought any enron but one my 401k's did n doubled down n lost their butts, i just never liked their business style much preferred royal dutch...did exceptionally well in the fracking part still reaping residuals...did well on those storage tankers during the storage sparcity but u had to get in n get out at the right time for those, fortunately i gauged it correctly....

I owned RDS before....the European/British oils are too henpecked by the Greens overseas.  Both RDS and BP cut their dividends in 2020....Exxon and Chevron did not.

Royal Dutch had last cut the divvy almost 80 years ago during WW II during The Blitz.  They threw that all away.