Morgan Spitting Eagle 1891 CC VAM
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18 posts in this topic

On 6/7/2022 at 8:31 AM, Errorists said:

Nah I'll take it up with the members here..

I don't understand.  Why wouldn't you want to go to a resource that has dedicated subject matter experts to discuss your new proposal?

I'm sure there are knowledgeable VAM collectors here that can provide feedback, but why not go where the experts are concentrated? 

Are you really interested in determining the answer?

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On 6/7/2022 at 9:15 AM, Oldhoopster said:

I don't understand.  Why wouldn't you want to go to a resource that has dedicated subject matter experts to discuss your new proposal?

I'm sure there are knowledgeable VAM collectors here that can provide feedback, but why not go where the experts are concentrated? 

Are you really interested in determining the answer?

I like this place better. They have NGC graders here. What better expert advice can you get? 

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Difficult to tell without really sharp, high magnification photos. Difference between a natural chip and accidental damage would be in texture and edge irregularities. This is a common die variety so there should be many examples around for review.

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On 6/7/2022 at 11:11 AM, Errorists said:

I like this place better. They have NGC graders here. What better expert advice can you get? 

So you're saying that because you like this site better, you'll get better advice here than you would at a site that specializes in the subject. 

That makes no sense.  But then again, many of the responses you've given to previous posts make no sense either.  I guess that speaks to the credibility of the information you post here.  

 

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

The raised metal on these coins is too smooth to be the result of a chip. It is most likely due to contact with something that pushed in the die.

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On 6/7/2022 at 11:35 AM, Oldhoopster said:

So you're saying that because you like this site better, you'll get better advice here than you would at a site that specializes in the subject. 

That makes no sense.  But then again, many of the responses you've given to previous posts make no sense either.  I guess that speaks to the credibility of the information you post here.  

 

Keep guessing it makes you smarter eventually..

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On 6/7/2022 at 11:53 AM, DWLange said:

The raised metal on these coins is too smooth to be the result of a chip. It is most likely due to contact with something that pushed in the die.

I agree.  To smooth with no stair stepping as die chips away..

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On 6/7/2022 at 10:11 AM, Errorists said:

I like this place better. They have NGC graders here. What better expert advice can you get? 

From photos? There’s no such thing as expert advice. Coins are three dimensional. 

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On 6/7/2022 at 3:32 PM, VKurtB said:

From photos? There’s no such thing as expert advice. Coins are three dimensional. 

I think DW said it well.

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

The label descriptions used since 1997 were pretty much imposed on NGC by the language of the Top 100 book. I've noticed that in recent years the vamworld website has abandoned many of those descriptions for more accurate ones, but our customers still expect labels that match the book.

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On 6/7/2022 at 4:32 PM, VKurtB said:

From photos? There’s no such thing as expert advice. Coins are three dimensional. 

What's needed are MRI's for coins [and coin experts without hidden agendas].

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On 6/10/2022 at 7:51 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

What's needed are MRI's for coins [and coin experts without hidden agendas].

A standardized motion picture file format that allows circular tilting under an incandescent light source that isn’t a data pig is all that’s needed. Good luck with that. 

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On 6/10/2022 at 6:51 PM, DWLange said:

The label descriptions used since 1997 were pretty much imposed on NGC by the language of the Top 100 book. I've noticed that in recent years the vamworld website has abandoned many of those descriptions for more accurate ones, but our customers still expect labels that match the book.

VAMWorld still uses the official specification for VAMs as written by Leroy Van Allen (up through Dec. 2021) or me (starting Dec. 2021).  This is the text that describes each die as well as die markers.  The level of detail has increased here over the years because of collector demand.  This text is not supposed to be different from what Leroy's (or my) written specification.  There is space permitted for additional comments about the variety, including things not described in the specification.  There is also the official name of the variety as written by Leroy.  For the 91-CC VAM 3, it is "Doubled Profile, CC/CC Top, Spitting Eagle."  The doubled profile was added to the official name when VAM 7 was discovered with the same reverse and a different obverse.  Before that, the 1991 VAM book calls it "CC/CC Top and Spitting Eagle."

Many coins have additional nicknames not given by Leroy but adopted by collectors.  The 88-O "Hot Lips" is officially called "Doubled Head".  The term "Hot Lips" pre-dates the Top 100 book, as does "Scarface" for the 88-O VAM 1B.  Other nicknames were given when the Top 100 book or subsequent guides were published.  As these nicknames tend to be more popular and catchy, it only makes sense that they are used.  I don't think anyone would refer to a Hot Lips as a Doubled Head today.

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On 6/12/2022 at 8:26 PM, messydesk said:

....  I don't think anyone would refer to a Hot Lips as a Doubled Head today.

No, nowadays colorful descriptors are reduced to discreet acronyms, e.g., FBL = Fat Busted Lip. 😉 

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