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What's your favorite counterfeit you have?
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31 posts in this topic

Bought a belt/buckle with 1937D nickel (obverse showing). Silver buckle, coin is bezel-set, so a -shoot on number of legs on bison. Seller stated 80 - 90% certainty it's a 3-legger. Bought it, it's a 3-legger. Listed the coin on eBay, flagged for "counterfeit". Who knows? Looks authentic under my 60X loupe.

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These are my counterfeit coins. The real coins are very common so the counterfeiters must have been doing it to spend them which means it had to have been done in the late 1600s to early 1700s. I got them with a bunch of real ones on eBay.

They're from the polish Lithuanian commonwealth.

20220612_195656.thumb.jpg.a0c93390f7afb66aead46ab826550e6b.jpg

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I am sorry to report I have been deprived of the pleasure of owning a genuine counterfeit coin or bill. But I do have my Want List engraved in my memory.

The first is any one of a number of pewter fifty-cent pieces produced by Edward John Wellman in his car, a 1941 Buick. An account of his inevitable arrest, in pertinent part, reads as follows:  After escaping from a jail in Coral Gables, Florida--unlocking his cell door with the mainspring of an alarm clock he had brought in with him, he was recognized by a Secret Service man in New York's Flushing Meadow Park's Skating Rink where "he was dazzling everybody  with a whizzing glide to the center of the ice that ended in a triumphant pirouette." As he came out of the pirouette, he was arrested... and sent to a Federal penitentiary.

Item #2 on my secret Want List (to the eternal dismay of rather vocal anti-counterfeitists on this Forum) is any one of the thousands of one-dollar bills printed and passed in New York City over a ten-year span by Edward Mueller, the manhunt for whom by the Secret Service, "exceeded in intensity and scope any other manhunt in the chronicles of counterfeiting. ["The idea of money is older than the idea of counterfeit money  but older, perhaps by no more than a few minutes."] Mr. Mueller's bills were described as follows:  "Clearly no criminal mastermind had produced [them]. It was printed on a piece of cheap paper, available at stationery stores all over. At best the artwork was crude, childish even. A black splotch served as Washington's left eye, his right was almond shaped. Letters and numbers were poorly formed, illegible, or uneven. In addition to the fanciful artwork, one batch of bills featured an unbelievable typo -- "Wahsington."  This only infuriated the local Secret Service and the former agent once assigned to the local office who had since been elevated to chief, in Washington, D.C.

(To be continued, at the discretion of Moderation.)

(Edit:  I have since learned my next post may be my last; I believe I will leave the conclusion of this story, well enough alone.)

 

 

 

Edited by Quintus Arrius
(Self-explanatory.)
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On 7/8/2022 at 10:17 AM, Henri Charriere said:

I am sorry to report I have been deprived of the pleasure of owning a genuine counterfeit coin or bill. But I do have my Want List engraved in my memory.

The first is any one of a number of pewter fifty-cent pieces produced by Edward John Wellman in his car, a 1941 Buick. An account of his inevitable arrest, in pertinent part, reads as follows:  After escaping from a jail in Coral Gables, Florida--unlocking his cell door with the mainspring of an alarm clock he had brought in with him, he was recognized by a Secret Service man in New York's Flushing Meadow Park's Skating Rink where "he was dazzling everybody  with a whizzing glide to the center of the ice that ended in a triumphant pirouette." As he came out of the pirouette, he was arrested... and sent to a Federal penitentiary.

Item #2 on my secret Want List (to the eternal dismay of rather vocal anti-counterfeitists on this Forum) is any one of the thousands of one-dollar bills printed and passed in New York City over a ten-year span by Edward Mueller, the manhunt for whom by the Secret Service, "exceeded in intensity and scope any other manhunt in the chronicles of counterfeiting. ["The idea of money is older than the idea of counterfeit money  but older, perhaps by no more than a few minutes."] Mr. Mueller's bills were described as follows:  "Clearly no criminal mastermind had produced [them]. It was printed on a piece of cheap paper, available at stationery stores all over. At best the artwork was crude, childish even. A black splotch served as Washington's left eye, his right was almond shaped. Letters and numbers were poorly formed, illegible, or uneven. In addition to the fanciful artwork, one batch of bills featured an unbelievable typo -- "Wahsington."  This only infuriated the local Secret Service and the former agent once assigned to the local office who had since been elevated to chief, in Washington, D.C.

***

A Note of appreciation to Moderation for allowing me to post this seldom heard historical account.

08/08/2023

 

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On 8/20/2023 at 10:33 PM, powermad5000 said:

I own no counterfeits and if I did, I would destroy them.

Powermad, some counterfeits are collectible though.  Would you destroy a Machins Mills piece?  Contemporary counterfeit British half Pence made here in the US by the same firm that was making coinage for the states.  They are definitely an historical artifact, and they can be quite valuable.  Would you destroy one if it cam into your hands?

I own many contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens that were actually used in commerce.  I wouldn't destroy them.

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On 9/4/2023 at 7:51 AM, Conder101 said:

Powermad, some counterfeits are collectible though.  Would you destroy a Machins Mills piece?  Contemporary counterfeit British half Pence made here in the US by the same firm that was making coinage for the states.  They are definitely an historical artifact, and they can be quite valuable.  Would you destroy one if it cam into your hands?

I don't consider that in the sense of counterfeiting that I think of. I understand the background of that coin. I was referring to counterfeits of say 1893 Morgans, 1908 S Indian head cents, 1909 S VDB Lincoln Wheats......you get the idea.

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On 9/13/2023 at 11:50 PM, Conder101 said:

So you are against modern counterfeits and not contemporary ones.

Objection!

To Whom are you directing this promising line of inquiry?

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On 9/14/2023 at 8:47 AM, Henri Charriere said:

To Whom are you directing this promising line of inquiry?

That was directed at me @Henri Charriere.  The answer, basically, yes. Those which are known, colonial pieces, and exposed fakes from decades ago, have their part in history. I don't own or collect them per se, but those have their place in the greater numismatic story.

I am against ones made to defraud, to trick those into losing real money on what is worthless metal. Fake Morgans, fake Krugerrands, fake St. Gaudens, fake Indian heads, etc. (think China)

Edited by powermad5000
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I glued my 1931S penny to my doorbell ringer button. The S was the wrong size for that year. Luckily, I found it in pocket change at the Sonic drive thru window and didn't purchase it.

 The horribly faked Morgans that my wife purchased for me as a gift online several years ago, at a whopping $1.99 apiece, I tacked onto fence posts for my grandson to target practice with his 22 cal rifle. When they originally arrived and I opened the package, I kept grinning and gave her a hug with a big thank you. I waited till that night to give her a coinworld 101 lesson on fakes, Etsy, bidding scams, etc... I was on a roll, and figured I might as well enlighten her about online jewelry scams as well,  before she showed me her 4 carrot diamond that she outbid people for $100 or some other nonsense. 

Edited by RonnieR131
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[FWIW:  carats, karats and carrots...

The term, carats, is usually used in connection with gemstones or the weight of diamonds, e.g., a 3.7 carat round diamond;

Karat is used to define the purity of gold, e.g., an 18-karat wedding band (which is comprised of 75% gold + alloys, often copper.)

Carrots have something to do with Elmer Fudd hunting pesky wabbits.]  🤣

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Looks like I've gotten a taste of my own medicine here.  I have fallen from whatever heights I imagined myself to be in.  As a practical matter, this means I lose my "Rising Star" status. I am just another has-been. All washed up on this Board, this Forum, and in this town.  Me, the only person to come up with the correct name for what is commonly called a pound [#] sign: the octothorpe -- now laid low by a lowly caret. (Would you believe YouTube's got a short video devoted to just this word's correct pronunciation?) 

The accent circumflex I know well enough, but the caret, essentially a proofreader's mark, I never even knew had a formal name. It seems the carat, used as a measure of weight for precious stones and pearls, was derived from carob beans which centuries ago were mistakenly believed to all weigh the same: 200 milligrams. 

I don't know if Roger is still looking for proofreaders, but you would be eminently qualified. Caret... I can't believe it.  :facepalm:

(My apologies to the OP for this extraterrestrial excursion beyond the topic at hand.)

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I believe you are taking this extremely far beyond its seriousness @Henri Charriere. Such matters are neither globally nor locally worth the attention to degrade someone's social ladder status. (:

I am old enough to know octothorpe (and I still call it the "pound sign") as well as '&' is an ampersand, '@' is at the rate of, and * is an asterisk. Some also don't know [ is a bracket and { is a brace and when people use the following as a trailing off        ...       is known as (why it is my favorite punctuation name I do not know) an ellipsis.

I have always had interest in the proper names of things.

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On 10/2/2023 at 11:17 AM, RonnieR131 said:

 I was typing too fast and didn't proof read before I entered. Let it be known, using the word 'carrot' is only the third mistake I've ever made in my life. 

I had to think twice before I wrote my reply, but as you know, I got my comeuppance. 🤣

 

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@RonnieR131 :

I had to think long and hard before I dove into that, but carrot was too delicious to pass up.  I even learned something!  Who knew the accent circumflex was a proofreader's mark when used a certain way?  Man, Iove this place!

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This is a contemporary counterfeit of a Bust Half Dollar. It has a lettered edge, which is an immediate tip off that it is a counterfeit. All of the half dollars the mint issued in 1837 had a reeded edge. 

 

1837 Bogus 50 O.jpg

1837 Bogus 50 R.jpg

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On 11/15/2023 at 2:23 PM, BillJones said:

This is a contemporary counterfeit of a Bust Half Dollar. It has a lettered edge, which is an immediate tip off that it is a counterfeit. All of the half dollars the mint issued in 1837 had a reeded edge. 

 

1837 Bogus 50 O.jpg

1837 Bogus 50 R.jpg

If it is not an imposition, I would like to know what that "lettering" read. Hopefully, not "Made in China."  🤣

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The edge reads that same as it would on a genuine coin. "Fifty Cents or half dollar." This one was made back in the 1830s or '40s well before China got into the act. 

The piece is a collectors' item in its own right. It is listed in Don Taxy's book, Counterfeit and Misstruck Coins.

Edited by BillJones
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On 11/15/2023 at 4:57 PM, BillJones said:

The edge reads that same as it would on a genuine coin. "Fifty Cents or half dollar." This one was made back in the 1830s or '40s well before China got into the act. 

The piece is a collectors' item in its own right. It is listed in Don Taxy's book, Counterfeit and Misstruck Coins.

Interesting.  Minus Taxy's book, who's to say this isn't simply a variety like coins with and w/o rays? In France, numismatists accept the fact that the edges of some 1907 20-franc roosters are "embossed" with the high-relief legend used on the earlier Originals minted from 1899 to 1906. Only problem is, though they exist in numbers significant enough to be recognized, no one does -- but no one dares suggest they are counterfeits. (I may be wrong, but I cannot recall ever seeing a well-worn contemporary counterfeit.)

Yours is a well-worn piece that has seen circulation. Who knows, maybe RWB will discover a memo somewhere acknowledging them as unusual varieties not all of which were recalled. Under the circumstances, I would like to appeal to @powermad5000 's sense of fair play and artistic expression to grant you a variance. Only problem is mere possession of a counterfeit is unlawful and illegal. Any idea what it's made of?

Edited by Henri Charriere
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On 11/15/2023 at 3:57 PM, BillJones said:

The edge reads that same as it would on a genuine coin. "Fifty Cents or half dollar." This one was made back in the 1830s or '40s well before China got into the act. 

The piece is a collectors' item in its own right. It is listed in Don Taxy's book, Counterfeit and Misstruck Coins.

It is also listed in Keith Davignon's "Contemporary Counterfeit Capped Bust Half Dollars" 2nd edition as 1837 2/B. Interestingly, this same reverse die was used in 1833, 1836, and 1838 to coin other counterfeit half dollars. All had lettered edges.

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On 11/15/2023 at 7:15 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Interesting.  Minus Taxy's book, who's to say this isn't simply a variety like coins with and w/o rays? In France, numismatists accept the fact that the edges of some 1907 20-franc roosters are "embossed" with the high-relief legend used on the earlier Originals minted from 1899 to 1906. Only problem is, though they exist in numbers significant enough to be recognized, no one does -- but no one dares suggest they are counterfeits. (I may be wrong, but I cannot recall ever seeing a well-worn contemporary counterfeit.)

Yours is a well-worn piece that has seen circulation. Who knows, maybe RWB will discover a memo somewhere acknowledging them as unusual varieties not all of which were recalled. Under the circumstances, I would like to appeal to @powermad5000 's sense of fair play and artistic expression to grant you a variance. Only problem is mere possession of a counterfeit is unlawful and illegal. Any idea what it's made of?

No, it's a contemporary counterfeit all the way. It did not begin its life at the Philadelphia Mint. 

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