The new “U” 1 1

[Stackerdude21]

Does anyone know why the mint went back to the legless “U” on the new Type 2 Silver Eagles?

[Mr.Bill347]

Wikipedia states that it is a DIE Error

VarietiesEdit

The first significant variety of the Silver Eagle series appeared in 2008 and is known as the "2008-W Silver Eagle Reverse of 2007 Variety". The United States Mint made slight alterations to the reverse design between 2007 and 2008 and some 2008 uncirculated coins inadvertently were struck with the 2007 reverse type die resulting in a die error. The variety is distinguishable by differences in the "U" in UNITED STATES and the dash between SILVER and ONE.^[47]

[J P M]

I think the U that they used on the type 2 looks fine with the font they used. The type1 is a squarer looking font and the foot fits with that. But that is only my opinion and it is worth about as much as these ASE's that keep dropping in price ?

[Stackerdude21]

Well, that might be true to some extent. However, with the world in Chaos, they are bound to go up.  I only look at the auction prices anyway. If the mint decides to "Change" it like they did in 2008 fortune may be ours. LOL! 

[Conder101]

I wouldn't call the 2008/rev of 2007 a die error, it's a mule, a pairing of dies that were not intended to be used together.

As to an answer to the original question, they changed the design and they changed the font when they did so.  The font used didn't have a U with a "leg"

[RWB]

Ewe ?

Someone's pulling the wool over our eyes....or ewes.

[Stackerdude21]

Good one!

[VKurtB]

In the transition from 2007 to 2008, the Mint changed from manually designed master hubs (hand tools in plaster) to digital hubs made with software. The digital font chosen that was the closest match to the older manual one had a serif on the capital U. It’s just that simple. No more interesting than that. Who said so? The Mint master engraver told me so, face to face. No article, no website, no book. I get into cars and airplanes and travel and talk to people. It’s weird; I know. But it’s my thing. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by VKurtB

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

On 3/14/2022 at 4:22 PM, VKurtB said:

In the transition from 2007 to 2008, the Mint changed from manually designed master hubs (hand tools in plaster) to digital hubs made with software. The digital font chosen that was the closest match to the older manual one had a serif on the capital U. It’s just that simple. No more interesting than that. Who said so? The Mint master engraver told me so, face to face. No article, no website, no book. I get into cars and airplanes and travel and talk to people. It’s weird; I know. But it’s my thing. 

Reverse of '07 is an actively sought after coin.  I collect multiples, the collector from Texas I met was seeking one. Over half the Dealers were buying them or offered to buy mine if I mentioned I had any. The other half of Dealers didn't care. A different collector I met from Texas said he was looking to get one.

Who said so? The above persons did face to face with me. We were all physically standing on the convention bourse floor at the Broadmoore Resort in Colorado Springs, Colorado, on March 10th, 2022.  I was purchasing a half cent for my 7070 and handing off a different coin in Private Treaty to a Dealer and then Picking a different coin up for my Personal Collection from an advanced dealer. 

I too did not read this in an article or book, or research. I spend time flying (Low # KTN), talking to people, in cars, SUV's and trains, sometimes boats. More importantly. I spend more time....LISTENING

P.S. the Collector Exhibition was right next to the Registration, one  Security Agent was a man I met from New York Law Enforcement...retired, and John Sullivan and I spoke about a double struck SAC...

I'm inspired by this type of writing...I say we can't post it unless it was Face to Face....no drama, no books, no research..just straight up Numismatic "in the trenches" experiences...

Like Dennis from Chattanooga, ANA would say..."I'd love to hear from you"...or how beautiful you know who's double struck walking liberty half at $55,000 is....yes, Face to Face Brothers....Next stop on the coin circuit.

 

[RWB]

Why not simply ask John Mercanti for written confirmation. Then it will not be hearsay.

[VKurtB]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:44 AM, RWB said:

Why not simply ask John Mercanti for written confirmation. Then it will not be hearsay.

John Mercanti has the gift of verbal speech. That is precisely who I spoke to. It doesn’t NEED to be written down by either John or me. It’s true even if it’s not written down for some future m-o-r-o-n to find in a future NARA “dumpster dive”. This stinking fetish you have for “documents” leaves me astounded to no end. Go speak to the people DIRECTLY, as I do. 
 

You say what I do is hearsay. I say what you do is vomit. 
 

BTW, Dennis from Chattanooga and I were on the same three person judging panel last week in Colorado Springs. Can I say that without waving around a piece of paper, or is that hearsay too?

And at the THIRD corner of the triangle formed by Collector Exhibits, the “regular” Registration desk, and the third, Dealer Registration sat MY kiester when I wasn’t needed elsewhere. Where was Roger? Missing in action presumably among the mouse turds in some NARA archive.

WTF? You go do your third party documentary “research” (as if). I’ll continue to be the first or second party, thank you very much. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by VKurtB

[Oldhoopster]

Memories fade, people get old, stories start to change, overtime subjective opinions become facts.  Contemporary documents are the best thing we have to approximate what people were thinking and doing.  No, they are not perfect, people can lie and embellish, but generally they give us a pretty good picture.

If you don't document it, how is anybody going to remember the info?  

My company requires me to keep a lab notebook of all my experiments. Not only does it contain data, it has conclusions, theories, and ideas. It's an extremely useful tool to remember the details. I've used old notebooks to get information.  Imagine if I had to try to find somebody who was around when the original experiment was done and hoped they remembered something.

I'm going to disagree with you.  I feel contemporary documents are extremely important, and cataloging/organizing/archiving that data is equally important.  

The philosopher George Santayana once said, "those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it".  If you don't document it, it is unlikely it will be remembered

[Conder101]

On 3/16/2022 at 3:22 PM, VKurtB said:

. This stinking fetish you have for “documents” leaves me astounded to no end. Go speak to the people DIRECTLY, as I do. 

Sounds like a good idea.  Can you put me in touch with James Ross Snowden?

[Stackerdude21]

Guys, 

I asked about the Legless "U" on the new Type 2 ASE. Since no one has addressed my question (instead diverting to the 2007-8 ASE, [and other "Goop"] which, I already know about,) I must ASSUME no one has ANY answer. 

Again, does ANYONE know why the new ASE Type 2 has a "Legless" U???  Will the 2021 and 2022 ASE's T-2 become the new "Hot" item? 

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:01 AM, Stackerdude21 said:

Will the 2021 and 2022 ASE's T-2 become the new "Hot" item?

Why would they? I'm assuming all the dies used were identical for each issue, meaning that there are millions of each of these out there. If there were die varieties within each release those could be a "Hot" item. Maybe.

Don't know why the font change from T1 to T2, could be production related, esthetics, or who knows. 

[VKurtB]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:19 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Memories fade, people get old, stories start to change, overtime subjective opinions become facts.  Contemporary documents are the best thing we have to approximate what people were thinking and doing.  No, they are not perfect, people can lie and embellish, but generally they give us a pretty good picture.

If you don't document it, how is anybody going to remember the info?  

My company requires me to keep a lab notebook of all my experiments. Not only does it contain data, it has conclusions, theories, and ideas. It's an extremely useful tool to remember the details. I've used old notebooks to get information.  Imagine if I had to try to find somebody who was around when the original experiment was done and hoped they remembered something.

I'm going to disagree with you.  I feel contemporary documents are extremely important, and cataloging/organizing/archiving that data is equally important.  

The philosopher George Santayana once said, "those who fail to remember the past are condemned to repeat it".  If you don't document it, it is unlikely it will be remembered

And my “company” (to the extent a government is one) required me to shred EVERYTHING on the way out the door. 

[VKurtB]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:01 AM, Stackerdude21 said:

Guys, 

I asked about the Legless "U" on the new Type 2 ASE. Since no one has addressed my question (instead diverting to the 2007-8 ASE, [and other "Goop"] which, I already know about,) I must ASSUME no one has ANY answer. 

Again, does ANYONE know why the new ASE Type 2 has a "Legless" U???  Will the 2021 and 2022 ASE's T-2 become the new "Hot" item? 

 

It’s a totally new digital font, unrelated to the Type 1 font. I just put my 2022 ASE in my Dansco. There is no reason to expect the font used on the Type 2 to have ANY relation to the Type 1 version. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by VKurtB

[Oldhoopster]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:41 PM, VKurtB said:

And my “company” (to the extent a government is one) required me to shred EVERYTHING on the way out the door. 

Isn't there a significant amount of documentation in the Congressional Record and the state equivalents?  

[VKurtB]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:05 PM, Oldhoopster said:

Isn't there a significant amount of documentation in the Congressional Record and the state equivalents?  

Only on the final product. But yes, on that. On the stuff that leads to the final legislative product, other than formal amendments, it’s all hidden. They even carve out an exception to Right to Know Act regarding intermediate work product, which is exempt. 
 

Federal numismatic example: have you ever read anything about the process of getting to the formal version of a coin bill? No, they emerge seemingly by magic, fully ready for passage. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by VKurtB

[RWB]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:51 PM, VKurtB said:

Federal numismatic example: have you ever read anything about the process of getting to the formal version of a coin bill? No, they emerge seemingly by magic, fully ready for passage.

There is considerable information both formal and informal - if one bothers to look, listen and understand. Most government processes are analogs of private business processes, but wrapped in a layer of specific rules and regulations. There is no secrecy at the US Mint about how a coinage bill is developed, and this has been published.

VKurtB's distorted view is summarized in this simple comment of his, "This stinking fetish you have for 'documents' leaves me astounded to no end." This amounts to a preference for pliable and deniable hearsay over facts that are available to all.

[VKurtB]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:38 AM, RWB said:

There is no secrecy at the US Mint about how a coinage bill is developed, and this has been published.

It doesn’t happen at the US Mint, Roger. It happens at the staff level of the House and Senate Banking Committees. The Mint basically doesn’t participate at all. If you were at the October 2016 Mint Forum at the Philadelphia Federal Reserve, you would know this, or did nobody send you a document about what was covered there?

Edited March 18, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:38 AM, RWB said:

over facts that are available to all.

That’s the problem, Roger. The true facts are nearly NEVER available to all. That’s why some people, like me, choose to travel and talk to the individuals involved. 

[Conder101]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:01 AM, Stackerdude21 said:

Since no one has addressed my question (instead diverting to the 2007-8 ASE, [and other "Goop"] which, I already know about,) I must ASSUME no one has ANY answer.

I responded to the question on March 11.

[RWB]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:29 PM, Conder101 said:

As to an answer to the original question, they changed the design and they changed the font when they did so.  The font used didn't have a U with a "leg"

Here is the response. Simple, direct, honest.

[J P M]

On 3/24/2022 at 4:33 PM, Conder101 said:

I responded to the question on March 11.

 I commented also it is just the font they used?