Is the E and D double die 1 1

[Deana2874]

Edited February 2, 2022 by Deana2874
I'm not sure were to put my question.

[JKK]

If the question is do you have a doubled die, my answer at least is I don't see any evidence of it. Of course, without full shots of both sides, most of the pertinent information is not present. I see a well-worn Merc reverse minted at Philly.

[Deana2874]

I'm trying to find out if the E and D are double die

[Deana2874]

Thank you I was actually just referring to the E and D pictured.

[Deana2874]

I'm really new to this and not even sure were to look at pictures of good double dies without watching hours of youtube lol.

[JKK]

I don't see any doubling. Not even the machine doubling/die deterioration doubling that is about ten thousand times more common than authentic doubled dies.

[JKK]

Here is a very succinct article from the board's own David Lange, who is the sort of authority most people should listen to very carefully. Hopefully it will help you grow in understanding.

[Mohawk]

On 2/2/2022 at 6:00 PM, Deana2874 said:

I'm really new to this and not even sure were to look at pictures of good double dies without watching hours of youtube lol.

Hi Deana.

First off, welcome to the forum and hello!  And I'm with Jonathan....I don't see any evidence of doubling on your coin, either.  Jonathan gave you a great resource with the article by Mr. Lange.  I just wanted to add a couple more links for you that have good information on doubled dies and other errors and varieties.  The first is our hosts' Variety Plus page:

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/

Secondly, Error-Ref is a great resource as well:

https://www.error-ref.com/

Variety Vista also has a listing of many U.S. coin varieties and some good photos of them:

http://varietyvista.com/

And the last is Wexler's Die Varieties:

http://doubleddie.com/

Also, since you mentioned YouTube, I want to cover that with you as well.  YouTube is probably the worst place on the entire Internet to get coin information.  There are a lot of people on there who post coin videos that are full of outright lies, half truths and sensationalist misinformation that will steer you wrong about coins every time.  These people are looking to create click bait, so that they get more views on their videos.  So, unless a coin video on YouTube is posted by a reputable numismatic organization, such as NGC, ANACS, PCGS, the ANA or the PNG, do not even waste your time with it.  Joining this forum was a great step....there is a lot of experience and information here, and most of us are willing to do anything we can to help a new collector out.

[Woods020]

Can you atleast tell us what year this coin is? There aren’t many doubled dies in the merc series, and as previously said I don’t see any die doubling from those pics. I MAY see a little mechanical doubling but I can’t say for sure from those pics it may be glare. 

[tj96]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:06 PM, Woods020 said:

Can you atleast tell us what year this coin is? There aren’t many doubled dies in the merc series, and as previously said I don’t see any die doubling from those pics. I MAY see a little mechanical doubling but I can’t say for sure from those pics it may be glare. 

I just wish new members would put the date, denomination and brief description of the issue in the subject line. 

Post fill pictures of the Obv. and Rev, then zoom in on the area in question.    

[Mohawk]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:20 PM, tj96 said:

I just wish new members would put the date, denomination and brief description of the issue in the subject line. 

Post fill pictures of the Obv. and Rev, then zoom in on the area in question.    

All good points, TJ, and good advice for Deana to follow going forward.

[RWB]

On 2/2/2022 at 6:00 PM, Deana2874 said:

I'm really new to this and not even sure were to look at pictures of good double dies without watching hours of youtube lol.

Throw away the YouTube stuff...it's nearly all garbage. Get a 10x magnifier and look for the kinds of doubling of letters and design elements that Mr. Lange mentions. Post your questions and photos here so that members can give you honest, truthful assistance....not the YouTube lies.

[Deana2874]

Yes thank you for all your help and suggestions. As I did put my question in the subject line that was the only place it let me put any wording other then replying to my own question. When I say I'm new I literally mean that this is the first question I've ever asked anyone. It is a 1944 mercury dime. No it is not the one were the columns have the lines. I have started collecting wheat pennies for my 14 yr old daughter her fathers passed away and used to collect. I found this while looking for pennies. Being a single mother with no family or friends its hard to know were to turn especially on the internet. As far as picture of the whole coin my question was in reference to the E and D only so thought that was the only part anyone needed to see. Thank you kindly for the links. I will surely study them. I appreciate all of your answers and help. 

[Woods020]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:14 PM, Deana2874 said:

Yes thank you for all your help and suggestions. As I did put my question in the subject line that was the only place it let me put any wording other then replying to my own question. When I say I'm new I literally mean that this is the first question I've ever asked anyone. It is a 1944 mercury dime. No it is not the one were the columns have the lines. I have started collecting wheat pennies for my 14 yr old daughter her fathers passed away and used to collect. I found this while looking for pennies. Being a single mother with no family or friends its hard to know were to turn especially on the internet. As far as picture of the whole coin my question was in reference to the E and D only so thought that was the only part anyone needed to see. Thank you kindly for the links. I will surely study them. I appreciate all of your answers and help. 

We may come across as brash from time to time, but know that we love nothing more than helping new collectors who want to be helped. Over half the time we get people coming to the forum to argue insane ideas and refuse to listen to logic and experience. Please come back with any questions. And as stated we are pretty easy with just a few things we ask. Well focused and cropped to fill the screen of front and back of the coin. Then clearly ask what it is you are curious about, which you did just fine. If it’s something that requires magnification you can also post a few close ups, but remember focus is everything. We would love to help you and your daughter so don’t be turned off by your first experience. Nicest group of collectors you will meet on here once they know you are seriously wanting help. 
 

 

[tj96]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:14 AM, Deana2874 said:

Yes thank you for all your help and suggestions. As I did put my question in the subject line that was the only place it let me put any wording other then replying to my own question. When I say I'm new I literally mean that this is the first question I've ever asked anyone. It is a 1944 mercury dime. No it is not the one were the columns have the lines. I have started collecting wheat pennies for my 14 yr old daughter her fathers passed away and used to collect. I found this while looking for pennies. Being a single mother with no family or friends its hard to know were to turn especially on the internet. As far as picture of the whole coin my question was in reference to the E and D only so thought that was the only part anyone needed to see. Thank you kindly for the links. I will surely study them. I appreciate all of your answers and help. 

Wasn't trying to berate you or discourage you.  We get a lot of folks you that think we're mind-readers.

If you're interested in coins, stick around awhile.  You could probable get many of your questions answered just by searching through the many threads and posts here and links Mohawk posted.  If not, as you can see there are many here to help you.    

[Woods020]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:14 PM, Deana2874 said:

As far as picture of the whole coin my question was in reference to the E and D only so thought that was the only part anyone needed to see.

Oh and just to help your learning. Many times in identifying varieties, errors, etc on a coin there are many things to look at. Many are called die markers, pick ups, etc. On top of that there is a wealth of information on items such as known and validated doubled dies, repunched/over mint marks, and many other varieties which can be looked up by date/mint. You will see that in some of the links Mohawk included. Knowing the year/mint and seeing the full coin is very often relevant to answer most any question even if it may not be obvious why. It’s kind of like putting together a puzzle and you need all the pieces to complete it. 

[JKK]

In case you want to know why we always need the whole coin, in short, there are a number of reasons. Some of mine overlap Woods's. First, a positive attribution (as in identification) helps us know if there is a known error in that issue. Second, in case of damage, both at the mint and afterward, what affects one side can affect the other. Third, it helps to know the overall grade (for which the whole coin is needed) in order to determine whether it's even worth you worrying about. So it's not just pedantry; it's necessary information collection to best help you.

[Conder101]

On 2/2/2022 at 6:00 PM, Deana2874 said:

not even sure were to look at pictures of good double dies without watching hours of youtube lol.

Don't.  Most coin video on Youtube are garbage and they would probably show you a lot of worthless mechanical doubling or Longacre doubling.

[Morpheus1967]

On 2/2/2022 at 7:20 PM, tj96 said:

I just wish new members would put the date, denomination and brief description of the issue in the subject line. 

LOL "new" members?  You've been here what, just over two weeks?  

[tj96]

On 2/3/2022 at 4:48 AM, Morpheus1967 said:

LOL "new" members?  You've been here what, just over two weeks?  

About 1 1/2 weeks but I think I create threats the right way.

[Morpheus1967]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:17 AM, tj96 said:

About 1 1/2 weeks but I think I create threats the right way.

LOL I'm just messing with ya.  

[Just Bob]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:17 AM, tj96 said:

About 1 1/2 weeks but I think I create threats the right way.

That is a very interesting typo. 

[Deana2874]

Those pics were zoomed in xs 30. I have a jewelers magnifier. So here's a couple not zoomed. Thank you for all the info. It's a bit overwhelming lol. How do I polish my change after I clean it in vinegar?

[Coinbuf]

@Deana2874 I took your photo and circled the areas where I see some slight doubling, these areas look like strike doubling from you photo.   Strike doubling is very common and is not a true doubled die, the resources that @Mohawk posted have information on true die doubling and the worthless types of doubling like strike doubling (also commonly referred to as machine doubling) and die erosion doubling.

I am also including a photo which may help you in the future to identify between the worthless type of strike vs real doubled die.

 

 

[Coinbuf]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:09 AM, Deana2874 said:

Those pics were zoomed in xs 30. I have a jewelers magnifier. So here's a couple not zoomed. Thank you for all the info. It's a bit overwhelming lol. How do I polish my change after I clean it in vinegar?

A)  Never clean in vinegar, it is a very aggressive substance and can strip a coin's surface and patina.

B)  Never under any circumstance ever polish any coin, you will completely destroy it and eliminate any numismatic value.

The only liquid I would suggest for anyone to use is 100% acetone (not nail polish remover) this will not react with or damage the surface of coins.  It will remove any foreign and organic matter that is on the coin without damaging it.

[JKK]

Also, you should always crop the photos so the whole coin images are as large as possible. Modern photos have very high resolution and if cropped, the coin will in most cases show as much larger (as in about the size of the original partial image).

My stomach rolled a bit when you talked about cleaning with vinegar. Don't clean them at all unless you must remove physical matter that obscures identification or is actively corrosive (like PVC slime). Saying that is like saying to a daycare: "So what ways do you suggest I starve and torture my kids? Dog food and hickory stick work okay?" No, nyet, nein, lo, non, la, okhi, etc. Here is the reason: most forms of chemical cleaning and all forms of physical abrasive cleaning will alter the basic natural color and look. Before, it was just dingy, maybe; after, it looks unnatural, not right. And if value matters, bad cleanings (which would include nearly all novice cleanings) generally drop the value a couple of full grades. That means that the nicer the remaining detail, the more money you throw away.

There are a very, very few people to whom none of my cautions would apply. I know one. I am not myself one. This board might or might not have one, but they are rare and they all paid to play (meaning they had to practice somewhere).

[Deana2874]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:26 AM, JKK said:

Also, you should always crop the photos so the whole coin images are as large as possible. Modern photos have very high resolution and if cropped, the coin will in most cases show as much larger (as in about the size of the original partial image).

My stomach rolled a bit when you talked about cleaning with vinegar. Don't clean them at all unless you must remove physical matter that obscures identification or is actively corrosive (like PVC slime). Saying that is like saying to a daycare: "So what ways do you suggest I starve and torture my kids? Dog food and hickory stick work okay?" No, nyet, nein, lo, non, la, okhi, etc. Here is the reason: most forms of chemical cleaning and all forms of physical abrasive cleaning will alter the basic natural color and look. Before, it was just dingy, maybe; after, it looks unnatural, not right. And if value matters, bad cleanings (which would include nearly all novice cleanings) generally drop the value a couple of full grades. That means that the nicer the remaining detail, the more money you throw away.

There are a very, very few people to whom none of my cautions would apply. I know one. I am not myself one. This board might or might not have one, but they are rare and they all paid to play (meaning they had to practice somewhere).

Thank you both so much I think I've now ruined all my wheat pennies 😭. I swear I hate youtube!! Thank you though I won't do it again but now I'm devastated.

[Deana2874]

[Woods020]

On 2/3/2022 at 10:33 AM, Deana2874 said:

Thank you both so much I think I've now ruined all my wheat pennies 😭. I swear I hate youtube!! Thank you though I won't do it again but now I'm devastated.

I truly wish all new collectors would stop here or other forums before YouTube. Unfortunately it’s almost always the other way around. There is some good info on there, but you have to have a decent knowledge base to be able to tell the little bit of good from the sea of bad. 
 

Before you do anything to a coin post it on here and ask what, if anything, can safely be done. The vast majority of the time we will tell you not to touch it. Generally you will make things worse, but sometimes there are things that can be done. But it’s tricky because different metals (copper, silver, nickel, etc) all behave differently and different materials on the coins cause different problems. We will be glad to help but please please please ask here before doing anything YouTube tells you. The unfortunate reality is many people get burned with bad info in the beginning and it turns them off from collecting. 
 

Lastly proper storage is critical, especially with copper and your wheat cents. Copper is the most difficult coin metal to deal with. A few basic things that may help. I say this because I see verdigris (the green stuff on the cents) which is cancer to copper. Once it starts it’s nearly impossible to stop and will worsen. For now do these steps to start:

1. Don’t store coins in bulk piles, cans, jars, etc. If done properly it’s fine but for now let’s avoid it and quarantine out the sick patients. 
 

2. Don’t store mixed metals together. For example I see a dime in the pile. Different metals increase issues. 
 

3. If you see the green stuff (verdigris) don’t store it with other coins. It can spread. 
 

4. Invest in some inexpensive 2x2 coin flips and store each coin of interest in them. This gives some protection and separates the coins. You can then store the 2x2s in album pages, boxes, etc based on preference. This is an inexpensive way to properly store and organize. 
 

5. As you come to problem coins post pictures and ask what, if anything, can be done. With copper often oil is your best friend. But before we go there let’s take it on a case by case basis. 
 

6. DON’T WATCH MORE YOUTUBE 😁

[Coinbuf]

Yes sadly those cents in your photo have the dreaded cleaned look and their value have been diminished.     Youtube does have some good info, however it is mostly lots of bad info from hustlers that are more interested in the number of clicks and ads they get than the dissemination of good useful and truthful information.