kennedy sms halfs 0

[coin#son]

does any body know why it is so hard to find a 1964 kennedy sms half dollar? i have the 65 66 67 but cant find the 64.

[Hoghead515]

From what ive heard from others say there is no such thing. Thats just what Ive heard. 

[coin#son]

it is in coin world but all have no value showing

[Mr.Bill347]

I came across this article just after I purchased a 1965 special mint set a week or two ago.

1965 Special Mint Set

In 1964, America faced an impending coin shortage due to speculation and hoarding of small change, thus requiring all the attentions of the Philadelphia Mint. The shortage was so severe, that the Mint broke a long-standing tradition, and produced 1964 dated coins, as late as 1966! Even worse, the Treasury discontinued production of Proof Sets and Mint Sets, so that full production capacity could be focused on coins for circulation. As an alternative, the Mint began producing Special Mint Sets containing coins that were, in effect, souped-up Uncirculated pieces. The "special" finish was brighter and shinier than on regular coins struck for general use, but short of the brilliant, mirrored surfaces of true Proof coins.

Even though these sets were struck and produced at the San Francisco Mint (then an Assay Office), the coins bore no mintmark. Three things worked against the 1965 Special Mint Sets: One, they contained no 90% Silver coins (the Dime and Quarter were made of Copper-Nickel; the Half Dollar only 40% Silver); two, the public failed to embrace the new finish; and three, the Mint priced the sets at an unprecedented $4.00 - mostly to reduce speculation, and partially to pay for a seventy-five cent registered mailing fee (instituted to reduce excessive losses through the mail system).

The Mint sent IBM order cards to 800,000 buyers of either the 1964 Proof or Mint Sets. On one side of the card, buyers were instructed to make remittance to the "officer in charge"; on the other side of the same card, a conflicting instruction asked that remittance be made to the Superintendent of the U.S. Mint." Fortunately, payments made either way were accepted.

Orders for the 1965 Special Mint Sets were accepted through June 15, 1966 and shipment of sets began on May 20th. The public's reaction to the Special Mint Sets was subdued - sales for 1965 were less than half of the combined sales of 1964 Proof Sets and Mint Sets.

About the sets: All of the Special Mint Set coins were struck at San Francisco on old presses obtained from the Ordnance Department, but without an identifying mintmark.

Most 1965 SMS coins have a brilliant finish. Cameo surfaces are rare in Nickel and Half Dollar and very rare in Cent, Dime and Quarter. Deep Cameo surfaces are extremely rare (the Cent and Dime may not exist as Deep Cameo).

Each set contained five coins: Lincoln Cent, Jefferson Nickel, Roosevelt Dime, Washington Quarter, and Kennedy Half Dollar.

Mintage: 2,360,000 sets

Original packaging: The coins in the 1965 Special Mint Sets were sealed in flat pliofilm packs along with a blue and silver disk identifying this as a Special Mint Set. The pack was sealed in a white envelope.
 

That being said , you can find 1964 sets in capital holders. Attached is a photo of one. This is what I plan on getting sometime soon.

[Just Bob]

There were no Special Mint Sets issued in 1964. Some coins have turned up that look different from regular coins, and these have been called Specimen or SMS coins. The fact is, though that there is no documentation to support the claims that these coins were struck in any way that differs from normal coins. Several theories as to how or why they were made and/or saved have been put forth, but, as I stated earlier, no documentation from the mint has yet been found that supports one position over another.

This subject has been rather contentious on this chat board. If you search "64 SMS" in earlier threads, you will see what I mean.

Here is one such thread:  https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/425971-1964-kennedy-sms-could-it-be/#comments

[Mohawk]

On 1/5/2022 at 2:34 PM, Just Bob said:

There were no Special Mint Sets issued in 1964. Some coins have turned up that look different from regular coins, and these have been called Specimen or SMS coins. The fact is, though that there is no documentation to support the claims that these coins were struck in any way that differs from normal coins. Several theories as to how or why they were made and/or saved have been put forth, but, as I stated earlier, no documentation from the mint has yet been found that supports one position over another.

This subject has been rather contentious on this chat board. If you search "64 SMS" in earlier threads, you will see what I mean.

Here is one such thread:  https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/425971-1964-kennedy-sms-could-it-be/#comments

Thank you so much for handling that one, Bob.  I was trying to think of the best way to state that without opening that particular Pandora's Box again!!! Well done 

[B.C]

I found that info pretty cool made me open the rusty coffee can as I remembered I had stuffed a large amount of 1964 mint sets in ole rusty mine have all the shipping labels still attached from 64 and shipped from San Francisco sealed wonder what's now in them 

[B.C]

Guess my question is did the San Fran assay office ship out p and d mint sets seems when ordered they should have been shipped from Philly or Denver 

[RWB]

On 1/5/2022 at 2:00 PM, coin#son said:

does any body know why it is so hard to find a 1964 kennedy sms half dollar? i have the 65 66 67 but cant find the 64.

Because they do not exist. No "Special Mint Sets" were made of 1964-dated coins. Regular proof and mint sets were issued as in previous years.

The coins being touted as "1964 SMS" are normal pieces from fresh dies. See the Smithsonian NNC for samples.

[Coinbuf]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:16 PM, B.C said:

Guess my question is did the San Fran assay office ship out p and d mint sets seems when ordered they should have been shipped from Philly or Denver 

If my memory is correct the coins were struck at Philly and Denver then packaged and mailed from SF.   But I might not be remembering that correctly.

[RWB]

On 1/5/2022 at 4:37 PM, Coinbuf said:

If my memory is correct the coins were struck at Philly and Denver then packaged and mailed from SF.   But I might not be remembering that correctly.

That's correct. 1964 Mint Set coins were normal production at the two mints. Bagged, then shipped to SFAO for assembly and fulfillment. There was/is nothing unusual about the coins - except they might have fewer bag marks because the bags were handled less than through other delivery channels.

[Simple Collector]

Actually 1964 special mint sets do / did exist. Examples have been certified by PCGS. They were thought to have belonged to may have belonged to them mint director Eva Adams. They were offered for auction in 1991. They were housed in the 5 coin plastic holder.

[RWB]

On 1/5/2022 at 6:51 PM, Simple Collector said:

Actually 1964 special mint sets do / did exist. Examples have been certified by PCGS. They were thought to have belonged to may have belonged to them mint director Eva Adams. They were offered for auction in 1991. They were housed in the 5 coin plastic holder.

False. There is no evidence of any such pieces ever being produced. None. Claiming "it looks like" does not make it so. The "certification" is a lie based on ignorance of normal coinage and production. The "authentication" company has never presented its evidence for open examination and discussion, and never will. They, and their spawn are trapped in a money pit caused by ignorance and short-term greed. They fear the truth (and the expense of admitting to a false attribution) so they perpetuate a lie.

The pieces given to Adams and the Smithsonian were early strikes off new dies. That is all. That is documented in SI files. That happens with EVERY new pair of dies, in EVERY year. That reality does not make those coins any more special than the last pieces off a worn out die. Again: Claiming "it looks like" does not make it so.

So just remember: No Special Mint Sets were made for coins dated 1964.

Edited January 6, 2022 by RWB

[Simple Collector]

I stand by what I posted.

1964 SMS coins are enigmatic (coinworld.com)

In addition, there is auction data from Heritage Auctions

1964 50C SMS MS68 PCGS.... SMS Kennedy Half Dollars | Lot #2929 | Heritage Auctions

Stacks Auction had them as well.

1964 SMS coins are enigmatic (coinworld.com)

Great collections as well

GreatCollections - PCGS Coin Auction Archive > U.S. Coin Prices > Half Dollars > Kennedy Half Dollars > 1964 Kennedy Half Dollar SMS

 

[Mohawk]

And the battle starts again.........for the record, I'm with RWB.  There are no 1964 SMS coins and TPGs and auction companies are not infallible.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Mohawk

[J P M]

This is what you would get from the mint in 1964

[Mohawk]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:21 PM, J P Mashoke said:

This is what you would get from the mint in 1964

Or this:

The 1964 options were a proof set or a plain old, not special, mint set.  And that was it.  Just those two options and nothing more.  Next year was the first year of Special Mint Sets and they're actually not very special.  To B.C......this envelope matches up to what you posted, so you have 1964 Mint Sets.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Mohawk

[J P M]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:21 PM, J P Mashoke said:

This is what you would get from the mint in 1964

In 65 it was this

[Conder101]

On 1/5/2022 at 6:51 PM, Simple Collector said:

Actually 1964 special mint sets do / did exist. Examples have been certified by PCGS. They were thought to have belonged to may have belonged to them mint director Eva Adams. They were offered for auction in 1991. They were housed in the 5 coin plastic holder.

What they are calling 1964 SMS coins did come from the Eva Adams estate, they were sold at auction in 1991, they did NOT come in 5 coin plastic holders, and they are not actual SMS coins just first strike from new dies.(Although why new dies should have so much heavy die polishing lines I don't understand.)

Edited January 6, 2022 by Conder101

[Mohawk]

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Claiming "it looks like" does not make it so.

So true.  I just picked this coin up, which to my eye looks a lot like what many Special Mint Set coins look like.  It's proof like, it's well struck and it has some contrast to the devices, but it's not a proof.  However, I don't think the Muldenhutten Mint made any Special Mint Sets in 1953.......

[RWB]

To add a couple more facts. SMS coins were processed using slightly different operations than normal circulation coins. Those operations changed a little each of the three years of SMS issue. No 1964 coins received such defined handling differences.

There is NO FACTUAL JUSTIFICATION for an "authentication" company to certify or "invent" a misleading and incorrect label for the pieces. Just as there is no factual justifications for some of the "specimen" "special proof" " prototype" or other perversions of truth.

[Hoghead515]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:04 PM, Mohawk said:

And the battle starts again.........for the record, I'm with RWB.  There are no 1964 SMS coins and TPGs and auction companies are not infallible.

Same here. If theres no proof or documents to say otherwise. 

[B.C]

Believe nothing that you hear and half of what you see 

[RWB]

On 1/6/2022 at 10:13 AM, B.C said:

Believe nothing that you hear and half of what you see 

Even seeing is not half of reality. Five people witness a traffic accident. On questioning, all five reports differ yet all five people saw the accident.

Numismatics must utilize orderly science-based examination of items and competent historical research if truth is to be identified. Adding false or misleading titles, and failure to publish complete data merely show how primitive and greed-based numismatics is.

[Mohawk]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:09 PM, RWB said:

Even seeing is not half of reality. Five people witness a traffic accident. On questioning, all five reports differ yet all five people saw the accident.

Numismatics must utilize orderly science-based examination of items and competent historical research if truth is to be identified. Adding false or misleading titles, and failure to publish complete data merely show how primitive and greed-based numismatics is.

Well said....I agree with this statement 100%.  

[Mr.Bill347]

On 1/5/2022 at 8:21 PM, J P Mashoke said:

This is what you would get from the mint in 1964

Yep I just bought one!

[Hoghead515]

 

On 1/6/2022 at 12:09 PM, RWB said:

Even seeing is not half of reality. Five people witness a traffic accident. On questioning, all five reports differ yet all five people saw the accident.

Numismatics must utilize orderly science-based examination of items and competent historical research if truth is to be identified. Adding false or misleading titles, and failure to publish complete data merely show how primitive and greed-based numismatics is.

Speaking of traffic accidents i probably seen 100 to 150 today. No kidding. This winter storm hitting us is horrible. Its only a 2 1/2 hour trip to where we come from and I just now made it home. We left at 9:30 this morning and its 6:40 now. We got behind that 50 car pileup on I64 in Ky. Was trapped there for a couple hours. Was almost in it. Sadly 5 or 6 lost their lives in it that I know of. Maybe more. Almost got hit on I75 right before they shut it down. This been one of the worst trips I ever been on. Luckily all our crew and I made it home safe. Ive never seen so many crashes in my whole life combined as what I seen today. There was vechicles sitting everywhere over in the ditches. We even seen a few crashes happen. I just hope the best that everyone gets where they are going safely. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Hoghead515

[Mohawk]

On 1/6/2022 at 6:48 PM, Hoghead515 said:

 

Speaking of traffic accidents i probably seen 100 to 150 today. No kidding. This winter storm hitting us is horrible. Its only a 2 1/2 hour trip to where we come from and I just now made it home. We left at 9:30 this morning and its 6:40 now. We got behind that 50 car pileup on I64 in Ky. Was trapped there for a couple hours. Was almost in it. Sadly 5 or 6 lost their lives in it that I know of. Maybe more. Almost got hit on I75 right before they shut it down. This been one of the worst trips I ever been on. Luckily all our crew and I made it home safe. Ive never seen so many crashes in my whole life combined as what I seen today. There was vechicles sitting everywhere over in the ditches. We even seen a few crashes happen. I just hope the best that everyone gets where they are going safely. 

Man, that's just awful Hog.  The weather down in your region has been crazy this season.....I'm glad you and your crew made it home safe, my friend.  And I feel for anyone who got into a crash......winter conditions can be just evil when you're trying to drive.  I'm a native New Yorker and I work really hard to avoid driving in snow.....it scares the c*ap out of me!! A big advantage for the job I start on the 17th is it's entirely work from home.....I can avoid that to a high degree now.  To anyone impacted by this....please, stay safe.

[RWB]

Wow! Glad you eventually made it home OK. A couple of days ago there was a similar, but bigger mess on I-95 for about 60 miles - both ways. It took 27 hours to clear it, and another storm (the one from Kentucky that caught Hoghead515) is heading this way. I'm north and a little west of I-95 so we got only abut 3-inches the other day and expect about 4 inches early Thursday. Seems like a good day to read some coin books.....

[Mohawk]

Quote

Seems like a good day to read some coin books.....

Definitely.  But isn't it always a good day to read some coin books??