1964 penny
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45 posts in this topic

On 9/22/2021 at 8:46 PM, Mohawk said:

From the pics, the top one looks like a proof and the bottom is a business strike.  No SMS coins there.  The "1964 SMS" issue is a controversial one but regardless of the controversy, a "1964 SMS", if it exists at all, isn't going to be anything you would just find out in the wild.  You have a perfectly normal proof and a perfectly normal business strike.

According to what I have researched there were no business strike for that particular year. With newer pics along with original pics, would this be worth grading?

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I think you may be confused with the terminology 

A business strike normally refers to a coin struck for commerce.  This is what you get from the bank or in change at the store.  The mint made over 2.6 BILLION business strike cents in 1964.

Special Mint Sets (SMS) were made for sale to collectors in 1965-67.  They were made using a different process than business strikes. No proof sets were made in those years. 

No 1964 SMS were authorized.  There is even some disagreement among numismatic researchers and collectors as to whether they truly are SMS or just struck from new dies (look through the post archives for the back story.  Too much to explain and it may open a can of worms). 

Regardless of what the click bait, you tube hacks say, you aren't going to find a 64SMS coin in circulation

 

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On 10/14/2021 at 2:42 PM, Oldhoopster said:

I think you may be confused with the terminology 

A business strike normally refers to a coin struck for commerce.  This is what you get from the bank or in change at the store.  The mint made over 2.6 BILLION business strike cents in 1964.

Special Mint Sets (SMS) were made for sale to collectors in 1965-67.  They were made using a different process than business strikes. No proof sets were made in those years. 

No 1964 SMS were authorized.  There is even some disagreement among numismatic researchers and collectors as to whether they truly are SMS or just struck from new dies (look through the post archives for the back story.  Too much to explain and it may open a can of worms). 

Regardless of what the click bait, you tube hacks say, you aren't going to find a 64SMS coin in circulation

 

 

This. ….   You. Will. Never. Find. One. …. Forget the idea.

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Way back you asked about proof sets from 64. By silver proof set he was saying year set. In 64 the dime on up were silver hence silver proof set 😉
 

Better add that from 65 on things changed with the dime on up 

Edited by James Zyskowski
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I realize that Tridmn has a full plate of difficulties to deal with, and I am not unsympathetic to that. We all have our challenges to deal with. But he is doing self-inflicted injuries here. He is doing “shooting for the moon” or “wishcraft” numismatics here, which is not good for his mental health, nor, frankly, mine. This brand of numismatics is a plague on the hobby.  He needs to pursue this far more realistically than he has shown to date.

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On 10/14/2021 at 1:47 PM, Tridmn said:

According to what I have researched there were no business strike for that particular year. With newer pics along with original pics, would this be worth grading?

As stated, this is completely wrong, there were huge numbers of business strikes in 1964.

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On 10/14/2021 at 1:47 PM, Tridmn said:

According to what I have researched there were no business strike for that particular year. With newer pics along with original pics, would this be worth grading?

I truly thought I/we here on the forum have already established that there WERE OVER 2.6 BILLION BUSINESS STRIKES for this year alone........ Why have you regurgitated your previous post, and decided now to add to it, and ask if you should have it graded? I am not trying to be disrespectful at all Tridmn.  I am just not following along with (actually I am) your reasoning for your line of questions.  

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By the way, both 1964 cents shown in this thread by Tridmn are 1964 proofs. The first one is just nicer, that’s all. He hasn’t shown us any 1964 business strikes, although billions are out there. He hasn’t shown us a 1964 SMS because this is one area in which Roger and I agree - there ain’t no such a thing. I reserve the right to change my mind if shown one and it is instantly distinguishable from an initial die strike business strike, but I don’t expect that to ever happen.

What does exist are 1964 proof cents that are so lacking in mirrored fields that they don’t even look like proofs. If you want to call those SMS, I can’t stop you. That doesn’t make it accurate. The poor field 1964 proofs EXACTLY resemble 1965 SMS cents, and I own about 10-12 of them. A crummy proof does not an SMS make.

Edited by VKurtB
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On 10/14/2021 at 10:56 PM, VKurtB said:

By the way, both 1964 cents shown in this thread by Tridmn are 1964 proofs. The first one is just nicer, that’s all. He hasn’t shown us any 1964 business strikes, although billions are out there. He hasn’t shown us a 1964 SMS because this is one area in which Roger and I agree - there ain’t no such a thing. I reserve the right to change my mind if shown one and it is instantly distinguishable from an initial die strike business strike, but I don’t expect that to ever happen.

What does exist are 1964 proof cents that are so lacking in mirrored fields that they don’t even look like proofs. If you want to call those SMS, I can’t stop you. That doesn’t make it accurate. The poor field 1964 proofs EXACTLY resemble 1965 SMS cents, and I own about 10-12 of them. A crummy proof does not an SMS make.

They actually are the same coin shot in different lighting conditions. So all pics are of the proof coin. I was merely asking. No need in being rude please. I do appreciate the very important information. I knew it was a proof, but just waited until you chimed in to say something. Do not think me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. I have done research and found it to basically be a "fraud" of an SMS. Possibly one out there, but will never be seen. This is a beautiful coin and I added it to my collection. It has a brilliance for that year that I have not seen. So "Ernie" -burt dont haggle lol. Ty for letting me bring you down a notch. You underestimate me sir. 

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On 10/17/2021 at 3:57 AM, Tridmn said:

They actually are the same coin shot in different lighting conditions. So all pics are of the proof coin. I was merely asking. No need in being rude please. I do appreciate the very important information. I knew it was a proof, but just waited until you chimed in to say something. Do not think me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. I have done research and found it to basically be a "fraud" of an SMS. Possibly one out there, but will never be seen. This is a beautiful coin and I added it to my collection. It has a brilliance for that year that I have not seen. So "Ernie" -burt dont haggle lol. Ty for letting me bring you down a notch. You underestimate me sir. 

@Tridmn This is getting a little confusing, so help me to understand.  In your original post, you specifically said the 2 coins pictured were different.  Now you said they are the same coin.  Which is it?

 

 

 

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Next time, please post sharp, in-focus photos. This will go a long way to avoiding confusion. Please remember that folks trying to help have only your posted photos and comments - no other information to respond to your questions. Give them all the help you can by being clear and concise.

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On 10/17/2021 at 2:57 AM, Tridmn said:

They actually are the same coin shot in different lighting conditions. So all pics are of the proof coin. I was merely asking. No need in being rude please. I do appreciate the very important information. I knew it was a proof, but just waited until you chimed in to say something. Do not think me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. I have done research and found it to basically be a "fraud" of an SMS. Possibly one out there, but will never be seen. This is a beautiful coin and I added it to my collection. It has a brilliance for that year that I have not seen. So "Ernie" -burt dont haggle lol. Ty for letting me bring you down a notch. You underestimate me sir. 

I literally do not believe you. Either you have shown two different coins, or you are so incompetent with a camera that you don’t even blow off whatever that shmutz was to the left of the 1. Tridmn, I’m forced to say I don’t believe ANYTHING you say.

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On 10/17/2021 at 2:24 PM, VKurtB said:

I literally do not believe you. Either you have shown two different coins, or you are so incompetent with a camera that you don’t even blow off whatever that shmutz was to the left of the 1. Tridmn, I’m forced to say I don’t believe ANYTHING you say.

 Some people like to play games? Why when everyone here is only trying to help...The coins I see are in 2 different holders so they look like 2 different coins to me. Maybe the magnification makes it look that way.  

Edited by J P Mashoke
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On 10/17/2021 at 3:57 AM, Tridmn said:

They actually are the same coin shot in different lighting conditions. So all pics are of the proof coin. I was merely asking. No need in being rude please. I do appreciate the very important information. I knew it was a proof, but just waited until you chimed in to say something. Do not think me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. I have done research and found it to basically be a "fraud" of an SMS. Possibly one out there, but will never be seen. This is a beautiful coin and I added it to my collection. It has a brilliance for that year that I have not seen. So "Ernie" -burt dont haggle lol. Ty for letting me bring you down a notch. You underestimate me sir. 

Now that we've admitted to playing games, I'm officially done with this thread.  Unless it's an ultra cameo proof or an amazingly high grade circulation strike, there's nothing special about a 1964 cent anyway.  I'm a proponent of mean what you say and say what you mean....there's no need to play games.  Your coin is what it is regardless.

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On 10/17/2021 at 9:41 PM, Mohawk said:

Now that we've admitted to playing games, I'm officially done with this thread.  Unless it's an ultra cameo proof or an amazingly high grade circulation strike, there's nothing special about a 1964 cent anyway.  I'm a proponent of mean what you say and say what you mean....there's no need to play games.  Your coin is what it is regardless.

I apologize. Just wanted to see actually. Not just what they think they see.

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