Counterfeit Bust Half - Gold Standard Auctions
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19 posts in this topic

I recently on a whim bid on a few coins from an auction by gold standard auctions. The pictures were horrible and I knew better, but I rolled the dice. 2 of the 3 are just as described surprisingly. One, an 1834 bust half, is counterfeit. As soon as I saw it I knew it was trouble. I weighed it and it’s a gram light so not horrible, but it doesn’t register as silver on my sigma metalytics. Also the look is just off. 
 

I called them now and get this it has to be deemed a counterfeit by a TPG. They will not accept anything else other than that for a return. I even asked so if I send it to NGC and spend $60 on grading and shipping you will reimburse me for that just for them to tell you it’s counterfeit? And they said they will. I guess I’m stuck getting it body bagged and hoping they do what they said and then reimburse me. 

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Yes pictures could be important to determine if it is a modern fake or a contemporary one.  The contemporaries can be more valuable than the real ones.

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Sorry for some reason I didn’t see responses to this. The first two are the coin in hand. The bottom two are the listing pictures, which I will agree are stupid to buy from. I thought I would roll the dice on one coin from them to see if their descriptions were accurate. Not so much….

34A156E9-9412-4077-9762-FB2DDEE348E6.jpeg

178E9242-5A98-4671-85B9-5F5CB9887479.jpeg

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I think that on might be a good quality contemporary counterfeit.  I don't have my copy of Davignon available (and it's the first edition not the updated second edition) or I'd try and see if it is listed.  Found an online version of  Davignon, looks like it might be a D 9-I.  What is the weight?  The D 9-I is plated copper.  If it is a 9-I it is in much nicer condition than the plate coin in the book.

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Here is the description of 9-I in Davignon, 2nd edition:

Cast copy of O-111?

I centered below right side of E  (That has to be a typo - the I is under the right side of the "T")

Les - Below stand of D

Res - Between A and M (near M)

Obv.    Star 7 points to junction of curl and headband. Date is low.

Rev.     C. in 50C is mostly below olive stem.

Copper. Very scarce

 

 

Conder101 is correct  about the look of your piece. It shows much less wear than the one in the book. 

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Weight is 12.72 grams. Diameter seems correct (32.54). 
 

In hand it could definitely be coated copper. Areas of wear show copper tones starting to show. 

Edited by Woods020
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Weight seems high for coated copper unless the coin is thicker than normal.  At standard thickness a copper piece should weigh about 11.54 grams.  It would need to be about 10% thicker.  But that would only be about .2 mm or .008 inches.

 

And that position of the I under the right side of E is a typo.  The site I was looking at Davignon on did have a list of errors in the book and that typo was identified as such.

Edited by Conder101
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Thanks for all the info. I was unaware of the book of attributed counterfeits. Definitely learned something. I just hate that I have to send it in for body bagging. I don’t want to waste their money, and will be livid if they don’t reimburse me afterwards. 

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My experience has been 99% bad. Over time I sent 37 bust halves for grading when I started submitting. 34 came back 'cleaned' and 1 ungradable due to re-engraved date. 2 were, wait for it, OK. My experience has shown that their grading is at least 2 grades higher than actual. Othe submissions like 'UNC' come back as XF or AU. Simply put, protect yourself and purchase slabbed coins only from this house. Uncertified, it has to be a good deal. An 1904 half cent listed as MS65 came back 'altered color', Granted an impulse purchase, should have spent on 1795. Nuff said.

image.png.c359203754003f9ec774addb3bf9a21d.png

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn that half dollar. I believe it may be genuine and just badly cleaned.

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Badly cleaned?  What about all those rippling waves on the east side, most prominently at or about 4 o' clock?  What about the trajectory of that assassin's bullet which grazed a good 85% of her head from top to bottom?

To the OP:  I don't want you to have to go thru life "explaining" your coin, and/or motive for buying it.  If I win the lottery, I will refund your money in full. You can even keep the coin should you wish to do so. 🐓 

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  • Member: Seasoned Veteran

The waves are typical of the Spiked Chin obverse die. It was used several die marriages with varying degrees of damage that probably resulted from the same accident that gave Liberty her protruding feature. It has no bearing on the authenticity or lack thereof. A known genuine piece is illustrated below.

H1c 1804 Spiked.jpg

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On 7/15/2022 at 1:45 PM, Just Bob said:

Which coin are we talking about now - the half dollar, or the half cent?

As this post is a year old and @Woods020 has not been active on this forum for several months does it even matter?    Don't get too sucked into another old thread that QA revived out of boredom.

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[To my many good friends on the Forum, Chopper One included.  I believe a distinction should be made amongst the terminology bandied about, with free abandon.

I do not revive, revitalize, resuscitate or regurgitate. I do, on occasion revisit and retread where warranted.

Courtesy of my wife, I leave you with a classic French nursery rhyme dating back to the 15th century, referred to by name by @Conder101, hereinabove:

"Sur Le Pont, d'Avignon, L'on y danse, l'on y dance.  Sur le Pont, d'Avignon,  L'on y dance, tous en rond."

Translation (first verse)

"On the bridge of Avignon,  We're all dancing, we're all dancing.  On the bridge of Avignon, We're all dancing all in circles."] 

P.S.  Neither before nor since @DWLangecomment first registered only last month, has any coin other than the half-dollar ever been mentioned. "Sur le pond...

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On 7/15/2022 at 4:51 PM, Coinbuf said:

As this post is a year old and @Woods020 has not been active on this forum for several months does it even matter?    Don't get too sucked into another old thread that QA revived out of boredom.

Interesting observation. To my knowledge, confirmed by other members, presumably with no axe to grind, a gentleman whose current thread has 17 followers, nearly 3K posts and 1.6 reviews hasn't been seen of heard from in over 22  YEARS!...  Perhaps the Guidelines ought to be rewritten in his absence.

(Thread referred to:  "Post your most recent acquisition: US.")

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