Counterfeit Bust Half - Gold Standard Auctions 2 2

[Woods020]

I recently on a whim bid on a few coins from an auction by gold standard auctions. The pictures were horrible and I knew better, but I rolled the dice. 2 of the 3 are just as described surprisingly. One, an 1834 bust half, is counterfeit. As soon as I saw it I knew it was trouble. I weighed it and it’s a gram light so not horrible, but it doesn’t register as silver on my sigma metalytics. Also the look is just off. 
 

I called them now and get this it has to be deemed a counterfeit by a TPG. They will not accept anything else other than that for a return. I even asked so if I send it to NGC and spend $60 on grading and shipping you will reimburse me for that just for them to tell you it’s counterfeit? And they said they will. I guess I’m stuck getting it body bagged and hoping they do what they said and then reimburse me. 

[Greenstang]

It sounds like you have nothing to lose except time if they stick to their word.

Could you post pictures of both sides so that we can take a look?

[Conder101]

Yes pictures could be important to determine if it is a modern fake or a contemporary one.  The contemporaries can be more valuable than the real ones.

[Woods020]

Sorry for some reason I didn’t see responses to this. The first two are the coin in hand. The bottom two are the listing pictures, which I will agree are stupid to buy from. I thought I would roll the dice on one coin from them to see if their descriptions were accurate. Not so much….

[Woods020]

[Conder101]

I think that on might be a good quality contemporary counterfeit.  I don't have my copy of Davignon available (and it's the first edition not the updated second edition) or I'd try and see if it is listed.  Found an online version of  Davignon, looks like it might be a D 9-I.  What is the weight?  The D 9-I is plated copper.  If it is a 9-I it is in much nicer condition than the plate coin in the book.

[Just Bob]

Here is the description of 9-I in Davignon, 2nd edition:

Cast copy of O-111?

I centered below right side of E  (That has to be a typo - the I is under the right side of the "T")

Les - Below stand of D

Res - Between A and M (near M)

Obv.    Star 7 points to junction of curl and headband. Date is low.

Rev.     C. in 50C is mostly below olive stem.

Copper. Very scarce

 

 

Conder101 is correct  about the look of your piece. It shows much less wear than the one in the book. 

[Woods020]

Weight is 12.72 grams. Diameter seems correct (32.54). 
 

In hand it could definitely be coated copper. Areas of wear show copper tones starting to show. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Woods020

[Conder101]

Weight seems high for coated copper unless the coin is thicker than normal.  At standard thickness a copper piece should weigh about 11.54 grams.  It would need to be about 10% thicker.  But that would only be about .2 mm or .008 inches.

 

And that position of the I under the right side of E is a typo.  The site I was looking at Davignon on did have a list of errors in the book and that typo was identified as such.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Conder101

[Woods020]

Thanks for all the info. I was unaware of the book of attributed counterfeits. Definitely learned something. I just hate that I have to send it in for body bagging. I don’t want to waste their money, and will be livid if they don’t reimburse me afterwards. 

[MattGinAZ]

My experience has been 99% bad. Over time I sent 37 bust halves for grading when I started submitting. 34 came back 'cleaned' and 1 ungradable due to re-engraved date. 2 were, wait for it, OK. My experience has shown that their grading is at least 2 grades higher than actual. Othe submissions like 'UNC' come back as XF or AU. Simply put, protect yourself and purchase slabbed coins only from this house. Uncertified, it has to be a good deal. An 1904 half cent listed as MS65 came back 'altered color', Granted an impulse purchase, should have spent on 1795. Nuff said.

[DWLange]

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn that half dollar. I believe it may be genuine and just badly cleaned.

[Quintus Arrius]

Badly cleaned?  What about all those rippling waves on the east side, most prominently at or about 4 o' clock?  What about the trajectory of that assassin's bullet which grazed a good 85% of her head from top to bottom?

To the OP:  I don't want you to have to go thru life "explaining" your coin, and/or motive for buying it.  If I win the lottery, I will refund your money in full. You can even keep the coin should you wish to do so. 🐓 

[DWLange]

The waves are typical of the Spiked Chin obverse die. It was used several die marriages with varying degrees of damage that probably resulted from the same accident that gave Liberty her protruding feature. It has no bearing on the authenticity or lack thereof. A known genuine piece is illustrated below.

[CaptHenway]

I am in agreement with David Lange. I cannot condemn it from these pictures. I think that it does need to be looked at by somebody with Authentication credentials.

[Just Bob]

Which coin are we talking about now - the half dollar, or the half cent?

[Coinbuf]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:45 PM, Just Bob said:

Which coin are we talking about now - the half dollar, or the half cent?

As this post is a year old and @Woods020 has not been active on this forum for several months does it even matter?    Don't get too sucked into another old thread that QA revived out of boredom.

[Quintus Arrius]

[To my many good friends on the Forum, Chopper One included.  I believe a distinction should be made amongst the terminology bandied about, with free abandon.

I do not revive, revitalize, resuscitate or regurgitate. I do, on occasion revisit and retread where warranted.

Courtesy of my wife, I leave you with a classic French nursery rhyme dating back to the 15th century, referred to by name by @Conder101, hereinabove:

"Sur Le Pont, d'Avignon, L'on y danse, l'on y dance.  Sur le Pont, d'Avignon,  L'on y dance, tous en rond."

Translation (first verse)

"On the bridge of Avignon,  We're all dancing, we're all dancing.  On the bridge of Avignon, We're all dancing all in circles."] 

P.S.  Neither before nor since @DWLangecomment first registered only last month, has any coin other than the half-dollar ever been mentioned. "Sur le pond...

[Quintus Arrius]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:51 PM, Coinbuf said:

As this post is a year old and @Woods020 has not been active on this forum for several months does it even matter?    Don't get too sucked into another old thread that QA revived out of boredom.

Interesting observation. To my knowledge, confirmed by other members, presumably with no axe to grind, a gentleman whose current thread has 17 followers, nearly 3K posts and 1.6 reviews hasn't been seen of heard from in over 22  YEARS!...  Perhaps the Guidelines ought to be rewritten in his absence.

(Thread referred to:  "Post your most recent acquisition: US.")

[The Fielding Collection]

Let me guess please you bought that from the HiBid website? I bought a few Error coins and a couple Morgans from them well they charged my credit card 4 weeks ago and I've yet to see the coins. I was going to give them until next week then file a claim with my credit card company, Now I think I'll call tomorrow. I'll never buy another unslabed coin from an auction again. I'll go further if it's not on the NGC rolls they can keep it.

[Quintus Arrius]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:27 AM, Conder101 said:

Yes pictures could be important to determine if it is a modern fake or a contemporary one.  The contemporaries can be more valuable than the real ones.

[Begging the OPs indulgence.]

🐓 :  Here it is right here! Read it! I told you this a year ago!

Q.A.: You've kept me up all nite with this!

🐓:  And I'll keep you up many more nites! You're hard headed!  You don't listen!  I told you modern fakes were not the way to go! "Contemporary Counterfeits" are the real deal.  NGC slabbed one recently. YOU JUST WROTE ABOUT IT YESTERDAY IN "TANTALIZING TIDBITS"!  You squandered a golden opportunity!  We could have made a mint by now!

Q.A.:  [Sorry everybody. I've got one felonious Rooster driving me nuts here.]  Say, Ricky... why would you think a coin forum would be an appropriate place in which to discuss this subject? Sheesh!  🤔 

[TooToeJoe]

Sold me a counterfeit as well except no need to send it in, you can see a lead core were various portions of gold plating flaked off. Of course, the image was altered to hide. As such, I'm on a mission:

This is for anyone who purchased/sold using Gold Standard Auctions on HiBid, Proxibid, Invaluable, or LiveAuctioneers!!!

Time to get these frauds taken down. If you had any of the following happen on any of the above referenced auction platforms:

1) Purchased a counterfeit;

2) Listing images were altered (differ from actual coin);

3) Bait and switch (different coin);

4) Gross misrepresentation of condition;

5) Slab from PGA and any of the above;

6) Failure to deliver or provide refund;

7) Failure to pay consignments.

Shoot an email to gsacoinfraud@gmail.com with a summary explanation of your experiences.