Larrylo1234 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 How can my ancient NGC graded and encapsulated coin be marked “ancient forgery” ? See pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus1967 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Perhaps even in 44 B.C there were less than honest folks ruining it for everyone. Meaning the coin is as old as the label says, but was faked back then. If they only knew who was coming in 44 years . Larrylo1234 and RonnieR131 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Because it is an ancient forgery. I think it's common practice for NGC to encapsulate "Not Genuine" coins. You paid to have it sealed up and they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldhoopster Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 I'm not an ancient specialist, but there are many contemporary counterfeits known. Looks like yours may have a base metal core with a silver wash or foil surface. They are also called Fourees or Limes counterfeits. There are articles that propose some of the fourees are actually official or semi official issues. Hopefully, others with more knowledge can fill in the details. Assuming you don't have a problem with slabbing ancients (I'm not a fan, but that's just my opinion), there shouldn't be a problem with slabbing fourees Here are a few links https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourrée https://coinweek.com/ancient-coins/bad-money-ancient-counterfeiters-and-their-fake-coins/ https://coinweek.com/ancient-coins/collectible-or-not-a-study-of-ancient-coin-fourees/ Larrylo1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JKK Posted April 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2021 Identified contemporary counterfeits can be slabbed as such. They are taken seriously in ancients collecting, as differentiated from modern phonies. SS January, Oldhoopster, Morpheus1967 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said: I think it's common practice for NGC to encapsulate "Not Genuine" coins. No it isn't, but they don't guarantee authenticity on ancients so I guess they went ahead and slabbed it. Larrylo1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 9 hours ago, Conder101 said: No it isn't, but they don't guarantee authenticity on ancients so I guess they went ahead and slabbed it. What is the drawback to slabbing a counterfeit and labeling it as such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnieR131 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I guess ancient counterfeit collectors, when they get together and talk, their conversations are like "my fake has only been cleaned probably 20 times, once every 100 years. Yours has been cleaned at least a 100 times, and still has wine stains in the facial area". Interesting piece to me, brings up a lot of questions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JKK Posted April 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ronnie stein said: I guess ancient counterfeit collectors, when they get together and talk, their conversations are like "my fake has only been cleaned probably 20 times, once every 100 years. Yours has been cleaned at least a 100 times, and still has wine stains in the facial area". Interesting piece to me, brings up a lot of questions.. Nah, we don't. For one thing, most authentic ancient coins have been cleaned if for no other reason than that they were found in big coinbergs all crudulated together (where Flotilla Stercoria buried her stash before the Vandals got there, and got killed, so no one remembered it and there it lay for fifteen centuries). Or they were buried for a long time by themselves, fell to the ground, whatever. The idea that an ancient coin was never cleaned is elusive, be it counterfeit or genuine. Unless it was recent and brutal, we'd be hard pressed to know. We spend a lot more time worrying how to blow bronze disease off them, for example. (It's possible. But most of you wouldn't do it. It's sort of like restaurant ranch dressing that way.) Since we also do not have perfect single die impressions for most ancient coins, there is normally some variance in presentation. The dies wore out more quickly and were used until they gave out, and were hand-engraved, so it was not like US 1800s coins where you could just look at the legend and say "See? Those letters are amateurishly uneven and the date doesn't match any known samples. Fakius McFalsificatorius struck again!" It's harder than that. We are far more concerned about modern counterfeits of ancient coins, which are very common and often rather good. There are some types of coins that were sort of hedge-struck (for fellow ancients folks, I'm thinking specifically of barbarous radiates from Gaul, especially Tetricus) by breakaway provinces, where the engraver wasn't even f-bombing literate. I'm serious. They couldn't even spell the legend correctly and there was no one over them who could correct them. Such fascinating coins, sort of fake and sort of real (in that they were meant to imitate, but at least were issued by a governing body of sorts), such hot garbage from a design standpoint and so interesting to collect. Edited April 23, 2021 by JKK Oldhoopster, Larrylo1234, SS January and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
