In Search of Continental-Illinois Bank Hoard NGC Graded Morgan Silver Dollar 0

[Jack Corso]

In Search of Continental-Illinois Bank Hoard NGC Graded Morgan Silver Dollar. Coin Vault has a listing but no longer in stock.

Thanks!

[GoldFinger1969]

Let us know what you find....I still remember the Continental Illinois Bank Holiday !! 

[Jack Corso]

Found a 1883 O NGC MS63. Overpaid for it but it completes my hoard collection.

[Just Bob]

2 hours ago, Jack Corso said:

 Overpaid for it but it completes my hoard collection.

I have done that more than once, just to complete a set. I have never regretted it. Having the set completed was worth the extra cost.

Congrats!

[Hoghead515]

In the short time I've been collecting I've over paid for a few. Very happy I got the coins I wanted. It was worth it to me because I really wanted them. 

[Jack Corso]

Same here. 

[Conder101]

I wonder how NGC identified it as coming from the hoard considering the hoard was disbursed almost ten years before NGC existed and as far as I know no company used any special holders for them.

[Jack Corso]

My guess is that whomever purchased the silver in the eighties held on to them and then had them graded. I guess you can say that for most hoards.

[Conder101]

But would NGC put that it was from the hoard just because someone said it was?  Provenance needs to be supported.  I remember a case ATS involving a Norweb Hibernia.

[JT2]

  it is amazing how over extended we will go when we know better but really really WANT it an dWANT IT NOW!!!  hhhehehe  i also fall into that catagory  and i am still happy

[James Zyskowski]

Congratulations I just finished a short set of a favorite 🤓. It’s a good feeling 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/23/2021 at 7:05 AM, Jack Corso said:

Found a 1883 O NGC MS63. Overpaid for it but it completes my hoard collection.

Can you post the pics ?  I've never see the label.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/29/2021 at 6:05 PM, Conder101 said:

I wonder how NGC identified it as coming from the hoard considering the hoard was disbursed almost ten years before NGC existed and as far as I know no company used any special holders for them.

Continental-Illinois got into trouble in 1984 (right after I got out of college).  So I guess the coins hit in 1983 or 1984 or 1985.  That would have been only a few years before PCGS and NGC started up.  But I am sure they didn't do special labels for various collections for a few more years after start-up.

[Jack Corso]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:45 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Can you post the pics ?  I've never see the label.

 

[EagleRJO]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:47 AM, Jack Corso said:

Coin Vault has a listing but no longer in stock.

Doesn't Coin Vault do mostly infomercials where you would expect there to be a bigger mark-up?

[Jack Corso]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:45 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Can you post the pics ?  I've never see the label.

 

[Jack Corso]

Sorry it took so long.

[Jack Corso]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:48 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Let us know what you find....I still remember the Continental Illinois Bank Holiday !! 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Thanks Jack...nice pics. 

Conder's question remains....if CI went under in 1984....then I presume that some of the assets including bags of coins took a few years to reach NGC when they commenced operations (in 1987). 

The label from above, as per Conder's classic NGC slab thread here at NGC (where else ! ) shows that this coin was holdered in or after July 2003.  So almost 20 years after CI went under and many years after they would have been sold.

Interested in how they determined chain-of-custody for the bags to make certain they were part of the CI Hoard.

Maybe down the line DLange or another NGC person here can chime in.

[GoldFinger1969]

From Wikipedia:  "Part of the bank's required reserves were held in silver dollars, which provided the opportunity to profit from a rise in silver prices. The holdings, estimated to be 1.5 million silver dollars, was sold to a coin dealer to raise money in the early 1980s."

[Jack Corso]

Thanks for the info. I have nearly completed an entire set of hoard Morgans and Peace dollars. There's a few out the for sale but they don't look like true hoards that I'm interested in. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/15/2022 at 7:18 PM, Jack Corso said:

Thanks for the info. I have nearly completed an entire set of hoard Morgans and Peace dollars. There's a few out the for sale but they don't look like true hoards that I'm interested in. 

You have multiple hoards for both Morgans and Peace Dollars ?  I'd be interested in knowing which ones, besides the obvious GSA 1970's release.  A few recent Morgan hoards got their own labels.

I track hoards for Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles.  

[Jack Corso]

Here is a list of hoards that I have currently:

Las Vegas Vault Collection, Mapes Casino Hoard, Great Southern Treasury Hoard, GSA Hoard, Continental Bank Hoard, Music City Hoard, Great Montana Hoard, Olothe Hoard, NYC Bank Hoard, Binion Collection, Lincoln Highway Hoard, Redfield Hoard, Fitzgerald Hoard, Patriot Collection, Jules Reiver Collection, Great NW Collection, Wayne Miller Collection. A couple may not be considered Hoards but I like the extra info that is on the coins.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, Jack Corso said:

Here is a list of hoards that I have currently:

Las Vegas Vault Collection, Mapes Casino Hoard, Great Southern Treasury Hoard, GSA Hoard, Continental Bank Hoard, Music City Hoard, Great Montana Hoard, Olothe Hoard, NYC Bank Hoard, Binion Collection, Lincoln Highway Hoard, Redfield Hoard, Fitzgerald Hoard, Patriot Collection, Jules Reiver Collection, Great NW Collection, Wayne Miller Collection. A couple may not be considered Hoards but I like the extra info that is on the coins.

Impressive collection, congrats ! 

[Mr.Bill347]

I guess to each his own, however, I don’t get how the “hoard” coins get so much more premium for the same grade. I understand the rarity aspect. I only have one hoard Morgan , a GSA CC.. Just curious Corso what made you begin this particular set?

don’t get me wrong, I respect everyone’s tastes and desire for certain sets, I know I do it too.

but if you can get a quality coin that has not been hoarded, isn’t that just as good? JMHO.

The other thing is truly how is provenance proven other than seeing a label?

[Jack Corso]

Just the variety was interesting. I really don't see that much of a premium on them though. Btw, I also have a nearly complete run of all dates/mint marks from 1878-1935 with few exceptions.

[EagleRJO]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:49 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I guess to each his own, however, I don’t get how the “hoard” coins get so much more premium for the same grade.

I don't really see it either, but I am really a raw coin collector where if you take the coin out of the holder you typically aren't left with anything special. But there are plenty of collectors that see value in those special label designations ... supply and demand.

Look at the bidding wars over the unique first/last struck different types of 2021 ASEs, with resulting premiums in the range of $80k per coin, where it really was all about what was designated on the holder label.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:53 AM, EagleRJO said:

I don't really see it either, but I am really a raw coin collector where if you take the coin out of the holder you typically aren't left with anything special. But there are plenty of collectors that see value in those special label designations ... supply and demand.

It's part of the story that is attractive to some people...and that is enough to justify a higher price to those individuals.  But you are right, some of the "hoards" are self-created or exaggerated and not worth anything IMO.

Ironically, the Saints 1908 Wells Fargo No Motto Hoard is really misnamed because "Wells Fargo" dealt with where they were stored when they were bought by Ron Gillio and his partners.  The name on them should really deal with the circa 1917 international transaction which resulted in them remaining untouched for decades.