1907 UHR Saint-Gaudens Sells for $4,100,000 1 1

[GoldFinger1969]

https://coinweek.com/us-coins/1907-ultra-high-relief-double-eagle-graded-by-pcgs-sells-for-4-1-million/

UHR's have been hot, another one sold for got $3.6 MM in February.

Edited April 9, 2021 by GoldFinger1969
extra spaces

[RWB]

Guess it's time to sell my little stash - glad the Barber folks saved them for me.

[GoldFinger1969]

13 minutes ago, RWB said:

Guess it's time to sell my little stash - glad the Barber folks saved them for me.

Screw buying MSFT or IBM when they were $1 stocks.....I just have to go back to the early-1900's, drive down to Philadelphia, and get me some valuable Saints !!

Nellie Ross:  "Hey, how'd we do today ?"

Cashier:  "Some guy bought 50 of the 1933 Saints....only clown to want 'em.....don't even know how he knew we had 'em on March 2nd today.  Weird guy....insisted he take a picture of the sales ledger with his name and the 50 coin sale showing.  Wanted that AND a receipt.  Paranoid nut !" 

Edited April 9, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

13 minutes ago, RWB said:

Guess it's time to sell my little stash - glad the Barber folks saved them for me.

On a serious note, that guy's stash of patterns and coins probably comprised 95% of his estate, maybe 99%.  What a dream job even if it only paid maybe $4,000/yr.

Edited April 9, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

I don't get the description of Inverted Edge Lettering for this and other coins.....the words read correct when the obverse is facing UP.....that should be Normal.....the letters are inverted when the Eagle on the Reverse is showing.

I would think the obverse takes priority not the reverse, so the Inverted would only be true if the lettering needed the reverse face-up to read it correctly.  Obverse face-up, the edge lettering can be read.  Reverse face-up, it can't.  Why call readable lettering inverted which implies upside-down and/or unreadable ?

Am I missing something ?

[Conder101]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:33 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

.insisted he take a picture of the sales ledger with his name and the 50 coin sale showing.  Wanted that AND a receipt.  Paranoid nut !" 

 

And what did they say when you pulled out your cellphone and snapped the picture?

Edited April 15, 2021 by Conder101

[zadok]

12 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't get the description of Inverted Edge Lettering for this and other coins.....the words read correct when the obverse is facing UP.....that should be Normal.....the letters are inverted when the Eagle on the Reverse is showing.

I would think the obverse takes priority not the reverse, so the Inverted would only be true if the lettering needed the reverse face-up to read it correctly.  Obverse face-up, the edge lettering can be read.  Reverse face-up, it can't.  Why call readable lettering inverted which implies upside-down and/or unreadable ?

Am I missing something ?

inverted lettering when u view it from the side with obverse on top....

[gmarguli]

If they're going to mock-up a picture of the coin, at least they could do is get the grade correct. It's PR68, not MS68.

[RWB]

All the Extremely High Relief patterns were made the same way; and in conformity with usual pattern piece methods, all would be called "Proofs."

Likewise, all High Relief MCMVII pieces were made the same way; and in conformity with usual circulation coin methods, all would be called "Uncirculated" or "Circulated" depending on their surfaces.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, zadok said:

inverted lettering when u view it from the side with obverse on top....

But the letters aren't inverted or upside down....they read normal when the obverse is on top.  

Edited April 15, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, gmarguli said:

If they're going to mock-up a picture of the coin, at least they could do is get the grade correct. It's PR68, not MS68.

That's true .....all UHR's are Proofs.....I wonder if PCGS will correct that.  I believe other PCGS-graded UHRs have the PF designation.

[zadok]

14 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

But the letters aren't inverted or upside down....they read normal when the obverse is on top.  

my very limited understanding of this issue ( im not a saint $20 fan n do little reading on them) is that the uhr 1907 was struck in 3 batches, first batch with collar from the 06 pattern, second n third batches with the revised collar, batch two was struck with the collar in one orientation n batch three with it in the opposite orientation, thus if u r looking at the coin from the top (obverse) down from one of the batches the edge lettering is normal n if from the other batch it would appear inverted, if ur perspective was to view the coins from the side (edge) the previous normal batch lettering would appear inverted n the previous inverted batch would be  normal.....hopefully not too confusing....as to which orientation is referred to as inverted letting by pcgs im not certain but is either batch two or three, perhaps rwb or some saint fan can clarify that issue.....

[RWB]

This is explained in Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908.

Please check there before conflating internet gobble.

Edited April 16, 2021 by RWB

[zadok]

20 minutes ago, RWB said:

This is explained in Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908.

Please check there before conflating internet gobble.

interesting since comments made above came from u in 2006 concerning the uhr edge lettering n reiterated by ron guth in articles he later published....who knew?

[RWB]

Go to the original materials.

I did not present the information in the form stated above. An author is responsible only for their direct comments - not someone's rewording or conflation.

Edited April 16, 2021 by RWB

[zadok]

36 minutes ago, RWB said:

Go to the original materials.

I did not present the information in the form stated above. An author is responsible only for their direct comments - not someone's rewording or conflation.

it wasnt a quote just a summation, not really interested in that series enuf to pursue it, minor issue anyway.....just trying help GF to understand orientation better, he can follow-up with u if its important to him......

[GoldFinger1969]

6 hours ago, zadok said:

thus if u r looking at the coin from the top (obverse) down from one of the batches the edge lettering is normal n if from the other batch it would appear inverted, if ur perspective was to view the coins from the side (edge) the previous normal batch lettering would appear inverted n the previous inverted batch would be  normal.....hopefully not too confusing....as to which orientation is referred to as inverted letting by pcgs im not certain but is either batch two or three, perhaps rwb or some saint fan can clarify that issue.....

Zad, if the lettering can be read when the Obverse is face-up.....they are calling that Inverted Edge Lettering.  To me, it's NOT "inverted" because it is NOT upside-down -- we can read it on the coin.

Normal Edge Lettering is when the Reverse is face-up...and then the letters "E Pluribus Unum" are upside down.

Since I/we don't read letters upside down, I don't understand why letters in their normal position are called "inverted" and upside-down they are called "normal."

Maybe it's in RoAC (which is at the top of my to-buy list) as Roger implied.  Must have something to do with the die striking or something, because I thought it was a simple answer and it seems more complicated.

[GoldFinger1969]

I'm going to scan the Internet a bit, sorry if I confused anybody here.

Edited April 16, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[zadok]

22 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Zad, if the lettering can be read when the Obverse is face-up.....they are calling that Inverted Edge Lettering.  To me, it's NOT "inverted" because it is NOT upside-down -- we can read it on the coin.

Normal Edge Lettering is when the Reverse is face-up...and then the letters "E Pluribus Unum" are upside down.

Since I/we don't read letters upside down, I don't understand why letters in their normal position are called "inverted" and upside-down they are called "normal."

Maybe it's in RoAC (which is at the top of my to-buy list) as Roger implied.  Must have something to do with the die striking or something, because I thought it was a simple answer and it seems more complicated.

not sure bout rwb's more recent books i dont own any....ron guth referenced his 2006 "deciphering the mystery of the mcmvii extremely high refief double eagles" never read that either, my comments were from subsequent article written by guth in the pcgs.com archives....saint $20s not my area of interest, i prefer his $10s n the liberty series of gold....good luck...

[RWB]

The "upside/downside" stuff was started by a dealer long ago and perpetrated by our friend Uncle Wally.

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, zadok said:

saint $20s not my area of interest, i prefer his $10s n the liberty series of gold....good luck...

Did Liberty Eagles or Saint Eagles ($10 gold coins) have edge lettering ?

[zadok]

51 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Did Liberty Eagles or Saint Eagles ($10 gold coins) have edge lettering ?

liberties were reeded...saints had starred edges....

[Henri Charriere]

[I guess this is not a good time to ask why some book titles on dust jackets read from the bottom-up instead of the usual up-down.]

[GoldFinger1969]

26 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[I guess this is not a good time to ask why some book titles on dust jackets read from the bottom-up instead of the usual up-down.]

Here's some normal books......

[Henri Charriere]

2 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Here's some normal books......

[Sorry, GF.  I meant on the spines. I assume on RWB's thick book, the title runs top-to-bottom on the spine.]

[GoldFinger1969]

13 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

[Sorry, GF.  I meant on the spines. I assume on RWB's thick book, the title runs top-to-bottom on the spine.]

Yup, every book reads top-to-bottom.  

[GoldFinger1969]

Back to the OP....2 UHRs sold within 4 months this year.....wonder if more will shake loose.....there's around 19 of these patterns/coins.  I know some ultra-rich collectors own them, you wonder if some more modest "only millionaires" somehow inherited a few of them on the cheap.

I think more than the 1927-D these coins are likely to be in the hands of non-collectors, folks like Weitzman (1933 Saint owner).

I just put the PR68 (or 69, not sure) UHR on my smartphone lock screen....on a small screen, with lots of pixels, the picture is out of this world !  

[GoldFinger1969]

Here's a CoinWEEK article from 2012 which goes into the UHRs and ranks them.  Interesting comments about the coin above and some others as well as the gradeflation that hit the series:

2012 CoinWEEK Article on 1907 UHRs

[zadok]

23 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Here's a CoinWEEK article from 2012 which goes into the UHRs and ranks them.  Interesting comments about the coin above and some others as well as the gradeflation that hit the series:

2012 CoinWEEK Article on 1907 UHRs

true, interesting article....sort of a who's who of the '07 uhr double eagles similar to the companion article by david tripp on the who's who of the '33 double eagles....if u want bit more early info on research of the uhr '07s u can go to....uspatterns.com n search mcmvii ehr double eagles, u will find an article thats sort of a follow on to previous research by "numismatist david tripp" on the ehr '07s....if u go to sub-section "secret business" n go to the last paragraph u will find the info on edge lettering etc....however it could be just gobble as i was informed earlier??....small world this rare coin history stuff....

[GoldFinger1969]

53 minutes ago, zadok said:

sort of a who's who of the '07 uhr double eagles similar to the companion article by david tripp on the who's who of the '33 double eagles.

It was a recent article, I think I linked to it in anothe thread...but I am sure it wasn't David Tripp, it was CoinWEEK writers.  Tripp only seems to write on the Weitzman 1933 Saint.  He's a 1-trick pony.