Tips and advice for a novice selling a nice collection would be appreciated 0

[Ifrman]

Hello,

My father in law passed away last year and I will be taking on the task of selling his coin and stamp collection for his wife who could use the extra money.  Its been kind of of fascinating going through his collection. I have been trying to match up receipts to the actual coin so I would have a starting point as to its value. The first coin I am looking at is a 1776 continental pewter coin. See pic of coin and the receipt. I read there are a lot of counterfeits of this coin, but I am hoping it is real since he bought it from what seems to be a major dealer. The lighting in the photo makes it look gold, but it is actually grayish, pretty worn, the photo is 2x zoom. Most of his coins have a grade, but this one was in a plastic sleeve with no grade that I could find. My question is is this coin real and what are the chances we could get close to what he paid in 2006? Any tips and advice for a novice selling a nice collection would be appreciated. 

 

 

 

[Ifrman]

the other side

[GoldFinger1969]

Gold or silver coins I can help you with, might pay to list the major coins for most of us to guestimate values for you.

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum.

Unless the color balance in your images is way off, the coin sure doesn’t look like it’s pewter - that and it’s appearance concerns me. If you’d like to post or message me with your zip code, I’ll be happy to see if I can help you locate a dealer in your area. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Welcome!

First - I would say, "don't be in a rush to sell your coin".  Many will pounce on a new/unknowing collector and try to take advantage of you.  I am new to coin collecting, and I have seen the vultures swoop-in with PMs to any newbie  trying to sell something.  It's pretty horrific to watch, really.

Second - Know what you have.  A coin like this should be authenticated and graded.  Grading will allow you to better understand the coin/condition and value.  When considering having a coin graded, do yourself a favor and select a top grading company like NGC or PCGS.  You will get more for the coin at the same grade, and it will sell much faster.  The old adage "buy the coin, not the holder" is all fine and good until its time for you to sell... a third-rate grading system may have the coin as MS65 and this may translate to an MS63+ in a NGC/PCGS holder.  Most collectors know this, and will pay less for the other companies due to the downgrade risks (if not avoid the coin all together). 

Third - Know what its worth.  Don't go on Ebay and try to match things eyeball-to-eyeball. All you will do with this is overestimate what your coin or collection is worth.  Understand the retail and wholesale dynamics.  I have found that a combination of Greysheet (the dealer wholesale price guide) and a look at actual hammer prices will get you close to an asking price.  The rest is kind of discretionary (this MS64 is better than that MS64), and of course how fast you need to move it folds into the price.

Then - Find a good coin dealer.  If you do the homework above, you will be much better at keeping the honest folks honest.  If a coin dealer sale is best, the benefit is you will get the money faster.  If auction is best, you will have to wait for the money but may get more in the end.  If the rest of your collection is of similar or higher numismatic quality, you may want to find a dealer that specialized in selling your most prominent pieces (ie Early Copper and Colonials have specialist dealers that work with those groups of collectors) 

If you are ever in doubt, something doesn't smell right... walk away.  Someone pressuring you too much and you feel you are getting "taken", walk away.  Read number one "don't be in a hurry..." as many times as you need to.

I have only been collecting a year... but I have seen this scenario play-out poorly for the inherited seller more than a few times.

Good Luck! 

Edited March 11, 2021 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[RWB]

4 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

Welcome to the forum.

Unless the color balance in your images is way off, the coin sure doesn’t look like it’s pewter - that and it’s appearance concerns me. If you’d like to post or message me with your zip code, I’ll be happy to see if I can help you locate a dealer in your area. 

Here's OPs coin cropped and color balanced from the invoice photo.

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

First - I would say, "don't be in a rush to sell your coin".  Many will pounce on a new/unknowing collector and try to take advantage of you.  I am new to coin collecting, and I have seen the vultures swoop-in with PMs to any newbie  trying to sell something.  It's pretty horrific to watch, really.

Most of the veteran posters here would NOT "pounce" and would only PM to offer specific advice.  Said individual can also say who he/she is working with here on the Forums so we can vet them.

I think you exaggerated how the vast majority of posters here act and replaced them with the occasional lurkers and posters who are more like scam artists or spammers. 

 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Not trying to exaggerate, and I am not really differentiating between "veteran" and "rookie" posters.  I am certainly the latter (Rookie), so take what I say with a grain of salt.  I don't post a lot, but I do read a lot.  

The NGC forums are certainly more honorable than the CoinTalk, FaceBook and other coin forums.  But... the risks I mention above are real.  And, following the advice I provided (albeit conservative and less-than-trusting), will alleviate much of those aforementioned risks.

My first visit to a coin shop, the owner told me that I "don't need to know about the Greysheet. That's just for dealers."  - I subscribed immediately, and have saved a lot as a result on the buying side,

My advice is simply to educate yourself and level the playing field.  Everyone can be helpful, but the moment that checkbooks come out... there is a conflict of interest, and the advising purchasing agent should not be the sole source of advice. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[RWB]

23 hours ago, Ifrman said:

Any tips and advice for a novice selling a nice collection would be appreciated. 

First, use a copy of the Guide Book of US Coins and categorize all the coins. Pay special attention to those in plastic holders from PCGS and NGC - the "grades" are likely to be reasonably accurate.

Second, list the graded coins and check their approximate values in the Guide Book. This will give you a rough idea of retail value.

Third, do the same for non-slabbed coins by comparing them to those already graded and, following the comments at the heading for each coin design, estimate the grade and value of each piece.

Fourth, many common coins, such as worn nickels and Lincoln cents, will likely be worth almost face value.

Fifth, silver and gold coins will be worth their bullion content at a minimum.

Once you've cataloged and estimated value, you can post coins here and ask members for input. This will help refine the scope and value of your coins. If the 1776 continental piece is an example, you might have many valuable pieces in the collection. [Coast to Coast Coin is an established coin dealer, although not known for handling especially rare items. The owner's name is Ken Pines.]

[Ifrman]

Thank you all for the the guidance and information.  I will educate myself and follow advice provided.

Most of his coins were from a wide variety outside of the US, which seems to make it tougher to estimate value. Some are centuries old and some are ancient..

My father in law was a big time history buff and he got a lot of enjoyment with his collection. I do think its is cool to hold coins that some guy many centuries ago carried around. I don't think he ever sold, just purchased and I am sure he saw it more as a hobby than a long term investment, but I am hoping maybe there some that have gone up in value.  His wife doesn't need the funds right away, but may in the future and she wants to sell. She thinks I can take it to a dealer in town and get what he paid for them. She had no ideal how many he had and how much went into it. I don't want to rush to sell and hate the ideal of selling something not knowing its fair value. If can sell some like this 1776, I can buy some to time to study his collection and know which ones are special.

[GoldFinger1969]

50 minutes ago, Ifrman said:

If can sell some like this 1776, I can buy some to time to study his collection and know which ones are special.

If like most collections, probably 80% of the value is in 20% of the coins.  Maybe even 90% of the value in 10% of the coins. 

Ebay and Heritage are your friends.  Once you see a completed price within the last year or so, figure that's FMV give or take 10-15%.

[RWB]

Consider consigning the 1776 piece to Heritage or another reputable auction company.They can tell you if it is marketable and have it authenticated. In today's coin market your pewter piece is almost unsaleable without independent authentication.

[GoldFinger1969]

$6,000 for that pewter coin ?  Hopefully, the markup wasn't too big and it has some nice value. 

[RWB]

Just a side note. If the illustrated coin is evaluated and determined to be "Not Authentic," it is possible it can be returned for a full refund. Title (ownership) cannot pass on a counterfeit.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/11/2021 at 12:20 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

My first visit to a coin shop, the owner told me that I "don't need to know about the Greysheet. That's just for dealers."  - I subscribed immediately, and have saved a lot as a result on the buying side,

He may have been protecting his turf but at the same time it's not like he was guarding the command codes to the nuclear football.  

You can get just as good information from the Greysheet from recent auctions from Ebay, GC, and HA.

The Greysheet was indispensible 25 years ago and still probably essential 10-15 years ago.  Today, less important except if you are a dealer buying/selling everyday and you need to see the GS even if you have recent auction prices just because others check GS and not auctions.

Edited March 13, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

4 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

$6,000 for that pewter coin ?  Hopefully, the markup wasn't too big and it has some nice value. 

The “markup” is irrelevant. Dealer A buys a coin for $3000 and marks it up 100%. Dealer B buys a coin for $5000 and marks it up for 20%. In each case, the selling price is $6000. 

[JKK]

On 3/11/2021 at 5:46 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

First - I would say, "don't be in a rush to sell your coin".  Many will pounce on a new/unknowing collector and try to take advantage of you.  I am new to coin collecting, and I have seen the vultures swoop-in with PMs to any newbie  trying to sell something.  It's pretty horrific to watch, really.

 

I would like to know who here has done this, and how often you have seen it.

[GoldFinger1969]

7 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

The “markup” is irrelevant. Dealer A buys a coin for $3000 and marks it up 100%. Dealer B buys a coin for $5000 and marks it up for 20%. In each case, the selling price is $6000. 

But I'd rather be selling to Dealer B because if it's the SAME or a SIMILAR coin, I'm netting more.

If the coin was a $3,500 or $4,000 coin FMV but the guy paid $6,000 because it was a retail or TV infomercial-type purchase, he's not going to get close to what he paid.  He's going to sell it for what is closer to FMV or what a dealer will buy it for (which will be what the dealer can sell it for less a decent markup).

For instance, those Liberty and Saint coins we see advertised on TV all the time -- they are 30% too high on average.  Anybody buying them is going to have to sell alot cheaper than what they paid for it unlike if they had bought the same coin on Ebay, GC, or HA.

Edited March 13, 2021 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

10 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

But I'd rather be selling to Dealer B because if it's the SAME or a SIMILAR coin, I'm netting more.

If the coin was a $3,500 or $4,000 coin FMV but the guy paid $6,000 because it was a retail or TV infomercial-type purchase, he's not going to get close to what he paid.  He's going to sell it for what is closer to FMV or what a dealer will buy it for (which will be what the dealer can sell it for less a decent markup).

For instance, those Liberty and Saint coins we see advertised on TV all the time -- they are 30% too high on average.  Anybody buying them is going to have to sell alot cheaper than what they paid for it unlike if they had bought the same coin on Ebay, GC, or HA.

The coin has already been purchased and nothing can be done about the mark-up or cost. And it doesn’t really matter what the dealer from whom it was acquired would pay to buy it back. There are a great many other options. What counts now is getting top dollar for it.

Edited March 13, 2021 by MarkFeld

[GoldFinger1969]

6 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

The coin has already been purchased and nothing can be done about the mark-up or cost. And it doesn’t really matter what the dealer from whom it was acquired would pay to buy it back. There are a great many other options. What counts now is getting top dollar for it.

On that I am 100% in agreement, Mark. 

[MarkFeld]

44 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

On that I am 100% in agreement, Mark. 

Whew!😉

[GoldFinger1969]

Coin shows should be re-opening up soon, that may help him if he can get to one to sell some of the coins.

Otherwise, he needs to hit those specialty online world/foreign coin sites.

[World Colonial]

2 hours ago, Lancek said:

Yeah, world coins are tougher.  A very niche market.  That's been my specialty lately.  But I know from experience local coin dealers are not always a fan.  Hard to value and turn.

NGC does have a world coin price guide.  They base their pricing off of data from Krause.  Who has historically been the go to company for US guides of world coins.  But their catalogs run $60-80 each.  One per century.  Nice that NGC offers info for free.  But I do find more mistakes with them.

If you post some of the more valuable world coins, I can dig through my Krause catalogs just to make sure NGC data matches.  Most of my catalogs are a couple years old.  And values have gone up a little.  Especially gold and silver.

Krause is of limited use in determining market value.  I can't say it's never reflective of current prices but if it is, it's entirely by accident and only because it's used as a reference point where the ask price matches it and someone pays it.

[GoldFinger1969]

Lance, what about going to HA and GC (and maybe even SB) for recent sales for the more obscure (or even common) world/foreign coins ?

[GoldFinger1969]

Surprised that high-cost Ebay is the place to sell world and foreign coins.   I guess their largere user base -- including globally -- pays off in this situation.

[JKK]

On 3/11/2021 at 5:46 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

Welcome!

First - I would say, "don't be in a rush to sell your coin".  Many will pounce on a new/unknowing collector and try to take advantage of you.  I am new to coin collecting, and I have seen the vultures swoop-in with PMs to any newbie  trying to sell something.  It's pretty horrific to watch, really.

 

You still have not answered this, and I'm still interested in an answer. This is a very serious complaint that goes to the heart of community ethics. If you have seen it here, I would like to know about it. If you aren't comfortable talking about it in the open, then kindly PM me specifics. Our community should never be "vultures" who "swoop-in with PMs to any newbie trying to sell something." If you exaggerated, or if it happened elsewhere, please just be candid about that. I don't want to put any of my energy toward helping or supporting anyone who would behave as a vulture to newbies.

[GoldFinger1969]

6 minutes ago, JKK said:

You still have not answered this, and I'm still interested in an answer. This is a very serious complaint that goes to the heart of community ethics. If you have seen it here, I would like to know about it. If you aren't comfortable talking about it in the open, then kindly PM me specifics. Our community should never be "vultures" who "swoop-in with PMs to any newbie trying to sell something." If you exaggerated, or if it happened elsewhere, please just be candid about that. I don't want to put any of my energy toward helping or supporting anyone who would behave as a vulture to newbies.

I think maybe he got 1 or 2 spam emails or PMs.  Maybe someone was trying to be helpful and he took it the wrong way.

Hopefully, he exaggerated.  I think most of the people here daily and weekly are committed to the site and transacting business is secondary or even lower, if it is even on their want list.

[JKK]

36 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think maybe he got 1 or 2 spam emails or PMs.  Maybe someone was trying to be helpful and he took it the wrong way.

Only he can tell me, and I expect him to support his assertion. I would like to know the truth.

[World Colonial]

4 hours ago, Lancek said:

So are you going to suggest a better source?  I can't say prices are exact.  But neither are the prices on NGCs US coin price guide.  I find them inflated by 10-20%.  Their world coins might be 30%+ high.  But at least it's a source people can access to give them an idea of what dates or MM might be key for a certain countries, series.  

Auctions and actual prices.

Krause prices are just "made up".  Possibly some coins listed in it which do not even exist and never did (1752 Peru 4R, 1933 South Africa circulation strike farthing), any number of coins with no publicly known sale at all (many Spanish colonial especially in the listed grades), and even more listings where the prices either have not changed in years (all South Africa Union and ZAR since 1998) or where it likely has not.

It is useful for attribution.  It is also somewhat useful for determining relative value but not otherwise.