RWB Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 "Testing hardness" is bologna. The Engraver and his assistants (and earlier the Coiner) were not ignorant louts, punching "anything that moves" like an army recruit ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie15 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 hours ago, kbbpll said: So I guess that's your alternative theory then. Yes it is.I guess it's possible and very probable. I consider it unlikely though. These were prized jobs. Many of these people stayed in these positions for decades. Barber ran a tight ship Perhaps but if he did not noticed a 'one in neck' caused by a dropped tool what makes you think he would have noticed it if it was done on purpose. Deliberately defacing dies out of spite, humor or boredom would get you canned it does today too, yet it happens everyday, and Barber would have noticed apparently not if the any of the other theories are correct. There must be a hundred or more of these MPD varieties during this era. Another theory? In my mind intentional damage is the most logical theory presented in this discussion, so no other theory needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie15 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Lets jump forward a hundred years or so to 2004 in a modern mint with modern security and procedures... It seems that the Wisconsin state quarters show up with extra leaves, one variety 'high leaf' and one 'low leaf'. Were these reverse dies hand engraved or punched? A leaf punch must have been dropped on two separate dies. Not likely. I have read two articles that suggest the theory that a lower level employee intentionally added the leaves after the dies left Engraving and before final hardening. One article even named the tool, a non-engraving tool, that matches the marks that we call extra leaves. Crawtomatic and RonnieR131 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Moxie15 said: Lets jump forward a hundred years or so to 2004 in a modern mint with modern security and procedures... It seems that the Wisconsin state quarters show up with extra leaves, one variety 'high leaf' and one 'low leaf'. Were these reverse dies hand engraved or punched? A leaf punch must have been dropped on two separate dies. Not likely. I have read two articles that suggest the theory that a lower level employee intentionally added the leaves after the dies left Engraving and before final hardening. One article even named the tool, a non-engraving tool, that matches the marks that we call extra leaves. I my mind, since all modern hubs are done digitally, and not with a reducing machine scanning a plaster model, all of these fascinating varieties on State and ATB quarters are intentional, aka Mint employee vandalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie15 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, VKurtB said: I my mind, since all modern hubs are done digitally, and not with a reducing machine scanning a plaster model, all of these fascinating varieties on State and ATB quarters are intentional, aka Mint employee vandalism. I totally agree. And this is happening in a mint with cameras and security searches and who knows what else. But it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 ...Yes, I will get it graded :-) Thanks you for the feedback and for making the whole error that much more fascinating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) On 6/14/2020 at 11:25 AM, kbbpll said: It's also attributed here (https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/cents/indian-cents-1859-1909/815485/) as FS-401, excellent images here and ATS. Thank you!!! I couldn't find it on NGC. ...Not only this but it seems that there have been less than 50 of these graded in total, NGC and PCGS together...Am I seeing that correctly!? Edited June 22, 2020 by Kurisu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1917 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) probably a good idea to get it graded... Edited June 22, 2020 by 1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
