Help with large World Collection 0

[TetonJoe]

Hello all, 

I'd appreciate any help in going in a new direction for a large collection.

We have a big collection inherited a few years ago from a beloved expert numismatic family member. Sold about 75 ancients as a small part of it last year at a large show, with help from great people on that thread here. What's left are about 10,000 World coins from 1100's to mid 1980's. Of that, about 450 are over $100 in value each which totals about 45% of the collection. We spent a good year putting together the World Coin inventory - all is done. Coins in original flips (and left alone - did not take out or clean). Most are graded between Fine and MS60 or so. Used Krause, NGC, eBay, Numista and other sites to get prices. Some are ungraded so we don't know their value, but we used lowest NGC price. Coin dealers said that the grading on the flips were all very accurate and that the sample coins were a great collection. Had two separate guys look at the whole collection, confirmed the above and then offered about 20%. We're not looking for 100% or even 80. Would entertain anything fair. 

With that said, what I don't get is why all the people we've talked to seem to contradict themselves. That is, they say the condition and grading looks good, and that using the above methods (for guidelines of course, not for selling), are also sound. They consistently say NGC prices are inflated, so that's understood. But then they dismiss buying the collection with all kind of excuses. 

Any insights? We've tried big dealers, local dealers, and auction firms. Auction houses only look at a list, not the actual coins and want to batch with a $1 minimum, which is honestly just laughable. Very frustrating. 

Should we break it up? If so, how? Thank you in advance!

[Voltyris]

Hey there,

Most auction houses/websites allow you to set a reserve price. 

You have mentioned that you've done your research on the coins. Set a reserve price, taking into consideration the fees, and give them to an auction house.

Speak to their representatives a little, they are willing to help. Try GreatCollections or DavidLawrence. They can also give you a free appraisal, however most of them require coins to be graded first. Also, some of them are happy to take a look at the coins, just speak to them first.

If you are not willing to grade, Ebay is the way to go. Photo shoot the models, and then prepare yourself to deal with returns, disputes and brawls!

Good Luck.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Voltyris

[Zebo]

Post your list, along with the suggested grades (good photos would help) here on the coin marketplace and ATS. Most here will want your selling price. Let the folks pick over them and eBay the rest. If you have anything that is really rare - have it graded then sell it. You'll save eBay and PayPal fees so you can sell them a bit cheaper. 

[GoldFinger1969]

I'm not as familiar with selling as I am with buying, but to me a discount of 20-40% seems appropriate.

I think a HUGE cache of coins like you are talking about -- 10,000 coins ? -- could lead to a discount number on the high side.  It's possible that nobody wants to deal with a collection of that size because it's highly unlikely you get a buyer for the entire lot or even if you broke it into 5 or 10 lots that you would sell most of those lots.

If you had a smaller number of more liquid coins -- like rare Saints or Liberty DE's or Morgans -- then I would think the % discount would be less.

Good Luck....I do think that selling through an auction house like HA should net you a good price.

[TetonJoe]

Great help from all - thank you so much!! Great insights.  

Couple questions if you don't mind:

1. If break into 5 - 10 lots, would it be by country or mixed? 

2. To get them graded seems to cost so much money and we are just not experts, so wouldn't know which to choose? 

3. None of these are US coins but we have them as well. Trying to sell the World Coins first. Should we bundle in the US? About 375 of them, in orig flips; 119 more loose. Don't believe many are higher value, but one is possibly $1200, then drops to $140-$170 range. Rest are well below $100. Have a fear, however, that we might be missing some possible high values because the ones in bank deposit boxes ended up MIXED in with everything else.  

4. We must have talked to the wrong auction houses - none would allow reserve price, and all wanted us to send to them for evaluation after seeing our list. HA was very helpful, but passed on the collection as well (based on list only) - said not enough high value coins. No gold. Lots of silver. Will check into the others suggested. 

5. Hoping there is a market for these middle range coins? Agree that ebay would be a nightmare - trying not to go that route. 

6. If I post the list here on marketplace, how many photos?

7. Lastly, with the current economic conditions, are people buying right now? 

Thank you again. 

[GoldFinger1969]

TJoe, who or where were you thinking of selling the stache ?  I would talk to a consignment specialist.

Mark Feld works at Heritage and sometimes he pops up here on the boards.  He might be able to provide assistance.  I've only known him through the Internet but he always is helpful and those who worked with him at HA or previously at NGC say he's a straight-shooter and honest broker.

[TetonJoe]

Ok thank you! Spoke to a woman at HA but don't have her name now. We spent last year (2019) talking to a few auction places including Stacks Bowers and 2 in California, plus some dealers from last spring's Baltimore show. 

What I didn't follow up on though was a previous thread I had going last January (also 2019) on this same topic. My apologies. Will review those replies also. 

[thebeav]

There is no easy answer to your liquidation problem. You'll find that coins with higher values will be easier to sell than those of lower value. As an example, a world coin with a catalog value of 200 dollars will be a desirable coin. Especially if it comes from a very collectible and popular country. Germany, Britain, Switzerland etc....Even with that criteria met, you will have a very difficult time getting 80%. Most likely, not possible.

A world coin with a catalog value of 8 dollars ( I suspect a VAST majority of your stuff would fall in this range, or less), is virtually not salable at any percentage of that value. These are the type of coins that are in 'grab bags' and junk boxes. When I had a shop, I had '10 for a dollar' and '5 for a dollar' world coin bins. Needless to say, the coins in these bins cost me pennies. Any more and I could not have bought them.

Quite simply, good stuff sells, not so good stuff doesn't help anyone......

[JKK]

The reality is that if the catalog value (which is based on Fantasy Island) is around $10K, you might get a dealer to pay $2000-2500--if they wanted to take it all. Many dealers would not. For the prospective buyer, it gets into "what would this be worth to me?" As you know, going through such a collection is an enormous task. Many dealers wouldn't spend that kind of time. There aren't as many US collectors for world coins. That's why it's a cheap way to participate in the hobby. That's one reason I do it, that and some language talent and a fascination with world history.

So. When it's that big, probably no one is going to give you $5K because it's not worth that to them. Your realistic range might be $2-3K. There's always this: divide it into ten lots, create a listing for one lot with photos of the main coins and the whole lot with written description of the rest in bulk. Put it up there for a seven-day auction starting at $0.99, no returns, and see what you get for that batch. Participate in the free shipping shell game; I'm betting one of these lots could fit into a flat rate box. Figure that if you got over $300, you'd be killing it. See what you do get. Whatever happens, you got rid of 10% of the pile, you got an idea what the online market would pay, and you got around the "what would this be worth to me" problem because no one is contemplating getting $2500 real value of world coins sent to them as a big project to which they have to say: "Well, I'd like it, but it's not worth $2500 to me. It's worth $1200 to me, and I'll give you that for it." If I looked it over, I'd be thinking of the vastness of the project. At 1/10 of the pile, not as much.

I'm not sure this is the ideal time for this, though. At least with cards, I'm seeing sellers not get the money they want, and making lower offers to watchers. I'm replying with lower counter-offers--and the sellers are accepting. Put cruelly, some people are going to have to unload some stuff to make ends meet, and there will be fewer buyers, driving prices down.

[GoldFinger1969]

22 minutes ago, thebeav said:

Quite simply, good stuff sells, not so good stuff doesn't help anyone......

Great point....TJoe, you should do the following:

(1)  Catalog the coins (you may have already done this)

(2)  Itemize the prices

(3)  Figure out how much of the collection's value is concentrated in the Top 50 or Top 100 or Top 500 coins.

Remember, selling 10,000 coins -- even without doing research and preparing a catalog -- is ALOT of work.  If 80% of the value is contained in 20% (or less) of the coins you and the dealer may want to proceed that way.  It may also be better for you to sell those piecemeal at GC or Ebay or via your LCSs.

Think about this.  You come into a LCS with 100 coins.  75% of the value is in 10 coins.  The LCS may give you a good deal on those coins, but he has no idea about the other 90.  So he discounts the ENTIRE cache rather than giving you 80-90% of FMV on the smaller group of 10 coins.

Now...multiply that coin stache by 100 and you see the problem of selling 10,000 coins.  Especially for World Coins which is a niche specialty with fewer dealers and fewer buyers.

You said that about 45% of the value (?) is in about 4.5% (450) of the coins worth over $100.  This is a good start.  Remember, a dealer (or an auction house) wants LIQUID and in-demand coins that can be sold easily and quickly.  Gold or silver coins have their own value....popular coins too....after that it's tougher.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[Moxie15]

Look up Great Collections on line. they are a very good auction company. Less fees than many auction houses and the have a very large audience.

[GoldFinger1969]

BTW, I take it none or very few have been professionally graded by a TPG ?

[Voltyris]

To help with a few points:

1- Divide them by countries. 

2- Grading:

- GreatCollections can help you in Grading. They determine which is the best grading service for your coins, you don't have to bother. Examples: US Coins (High Value) would go to PCGS, as they command a higher price in the market. US Coins (Average Value) would probably go to NGC to save on fees. World Coins doesn't make much difference. Also some coins can go to ANACS for the low fees and other factors. 

You get access to their special pricing in submissions, and probably even better pricing for the size of your collection. They have low fees, which helps both you and the buyer.

They have a large audience, and their sell rate is pretty high. Even World Coins command good prices at GC. The grading fees will be added to the total value, so whoever is buying will factor that in Vs buying the coin raw.

Reserve Price: I think 70% or something like this, double-check. Anyway, you get to write the reserve price in the list.

-----------------------------

- Other Auction Houses:

HA is an arrogant auction house, and is best for high value coins : ) .. Which is why they refused the collection. Run away from any auction houses that refuse a reserve price, quite unreasonable. 

David Lawrence is very good for buyers because of certain aspects but I've no info on the seller side. Reserve price is allowed.

Grading the coins, and having them professionally imaged will increase the value of your coins. I do not recommend selling them raw or taking the pictures yourself, because of the previous factors, and because its just a lot of work. Ebay as you agreed, is a nightmare. 

3- Economic Conditions: People are buying Gold & Silver now more than ever, both Bullion & US Classics. Big online dealers ran out of the popular coins, and shipping was quite delayed. I didn't see any drop in pricing for Collectible Coins across Auction Houses, and I go through several of them each week to find me something nice to purchase. 

That's what I could add. Any German or French Coins in this Collection? Haha Good Luck!

Edited April 22, 2020 by Voltyris

[TetonJoe]

So much good information - thank you all so very much!

To clarify - yes, all have been cataloged and prices itemized. That is part of the list we have (full excel spreadsheet extracted from Coin Elite inventory software). 

No professional grading - too costly for not knowing what we're doing haha. But all the dealers (at least 8) who have seen them agree with original grading on flips. One said maybe all but 10 (coins, not percent) were accurate - he examined entire 10K coins. So  we're really firm on that feedback. Thinking we will take the valuable ones to a local dealer, have him/her confirm and then send those for grading?

Happy to hear same sentiments about HA - that was our perception also. Don't think we've talked with Great Collections - will do so - thank you. 

Not in any hurry to sell - so the advice to batch and research lots is really helpful, as well as the understandable economic conditions. Would making lots in $2500 values make sense? Just thinking it might go better - affordable for average person?

So many people here offer help and interest so would love to just keep the coins with collectors. 

And yes - lots of German and French. Should I start to break up collection if people interested here? 

Best to you all - wonderful people. 

[Voltyris]

I am happy the info I have is of use!

Well, if you sell by the lot, then try to break them by country and coin (if you've several ones of the same coin/country). A French Coin Lot. A German Coin Lot.. US Coins: By Coin: Morgan Dollar Lot, Peace Dollar Lot, etc...

High values should be sold individually. Whether US or World Coins. Collectors can cherry pick them. Dealers/Sellers can go for the lots. 

If you would like to sell to collectors, then breaking them up into individual coins is the best solution but I think its a lot of work, it depends on your work ethic : ) 

Auction houses is the best solution to save on effort & time, and you would be selling to all parties. You can post about it here (Your way of advertising) and people would just go there and buy them.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Voltyris

[TetonJoe]

Ok I see -  regarding lots and selling. 

One more question to throw out there....I have low and high values for the ungraded coins (again, all in original flips with original grading by seller or my uncle revised up or down for accuracy). I put the high value in the list to have a range. 

How would we catch any generally high value or rare coins if we batch them and use our lowest values for pricing? In other words, we don't know what we're missing that might be of high value. 

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, TetonJoe said:

How would we catch any generally high value or rare coins if we batch them and use our lowest values for pricing? In other words, we don't know what we're missing that might be of high value. 

I'm not sure, but either (1) you need to check them out yourself and/or (2) you need them graded by a TPG.

It might pay to spend some time on the best coins and then submit them "in bulk" to a TPG for grading.  I'm going to assume some of your coins have condition rarity and having them certified as such will pay for itself.

[TetonJoe]

Ok thanks again. 

Great information to start working on. 

[Star City Homer]

I remember you posting before.  Sounds like you have been putting in a fair amount of work.

As a fairly country-centric collector I'd love to see what you have from Japan and Albania.  Especially Albania as my last few 'want' coins are either gold, or a few base metal ones that have been harder to locate.  But that is my selfishness talking.

Now, you may not want to piecemeal it out to random people on the internet.  But, going to a dealer you have to factor in the work load they are looking at as well as the liquidity risk.  Tying up assets in a huge lot might be more than they are in the mood for in when looking at a risk/return/workload perspective.  20% seems weak, but as you are aware catalog values might not be reflective of reality and they may not think the value is worth the time it would take.  Just speculating though.  And being dismissive can be a negotiating tool, or just a poor personality.  Or, the collection might be nice, but just not for them.  Politeness would be nice though.  I hope it wasn't either of the two I recommended to you!

Considering how much work/sunk cost of effort you have put into this cataloguing, if you really want to take it to the next step you could dip your toes in the eBay waters.  It would be more work and there is risk, and maybe you'd clear 40% of what you are thinking.  And really, considering how much time you have spent, are you over it and want to be done?  Or, are you into it enough to keep plugging away?

What would I do? The $100+ coins I'd think about doing an economy version of slabbing and prefer NGC.  I'd start with a BST here and see what sells.  Start with the price you think they are worth and be prepared for lower offers.  Take what seems reasonable.  Batch the lower value coins by country and sell in lots perhaps.  But raw coins from an unknown person will be a tough sell.  So, move whatever doesn't sell to either GC ($100+ coins in slabs) and the rest on eBay.

As for world events though, not sure if this is a great time to be selling anything other than bullion. 

So what kind of Albanian coins do you have :D?

[TetonJoe]

I remember you too! Thank you again!! And no - they weren't your guys. Looking back on our year (or 2 now), it definitely seems like the collection just too big for their return on investment and ability to move. The 20% low ball offer had some underlying ulterior reasons but it's not anything to divulge. Just wasn't going to work for either of us. So we have to dismiss that one. 

Really not a fan of eBay but may have to come back to that - maybe on the back end, but we don't have any reason to sell quickly. 

What is a BST? 

Should I post the entire list (pdf) to this thread (and my other thread) due to some interest by specific countries and my other thread, or is that frowned upon? Should it be posted elsewhere? And if I do that, do I risk moving any part of the remaining collection either in batches or whole thing?

 

[RWB]

A very good thread with lots of information useful to anyone trying to understand and sell a large collection/accumulation.

[kbbpll]

Perhaps post your list to Google Drive and post a link to it here? I've never tried attaching a pdf directly here; it might be too large. "BST" is buy/sell/trade section of the forum. Interested to see what you have.

[GoldFinger1969]

TJoe, it would help if you gave us a ballpark figure for what we are talking about:

(1)  How much do you think the ENTIRE collection is worth ?  Or better yet, what you would accept.

(2)  How much do you think the Top 50 or Top 100 or Top 250 coins are worth.

If 80% of the value is in 10% of the coins, or if a higher % is in even a smaller number of coins, this changes your gameplan.

 

[Iceman]

Since you have gotten some great advise to how to deal with all your coins I'm going to cut to the chase and ask you if you have any MS-60 and up Icelandic coins.....It might be a shot in the dark since not to many people have collected these coins and the coins from the mid sixties and older are the tough coins to find in really nice condition. so if you have the time to look for me I would very much appreciate your effort.

Thank you  

[TetonJoe]

Agree with RWB - so helpful.

Here is the link to Google Drive with my list: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JaSlfV4NfETRGAxwlVx1jDNGkKU1U2tE

Please please understand that a) I'm obviously not a collector b) did the best I could at pricing non-graded or difficult coins c) there is still work to be done d) some are marked $0 because I couldn't find the coin or any info on it and e) Refer to A & C

A quick sort shows top 100 are worth about $53,000. Top 250 about $82,000. Really interested in that 80/10 rule. 

Iceland included!

Once we have a good plan, I like the idea of using the BST area. Still need to decide how to break up. 

Please let me know if I should post any pictures so you can see the quality. 

[RWB]

To give members better perspective on the quality labeled on the 2x2's, I suggest you select you post good photos of at least 5 of the coins marked "Unc" that are pre-1930, both bronze and silver alloy. Consider doing the same for XF/EF coins. Pick some of high value and others of low value.

[TetonJoe]

Ok thank you - will get that together. 

[kbbpll]

That was a bunch of work. One thing that popped out - plenty of Canadian collectors love the large cent varieties, and you have a dozen 1859 (there must be 100 varieties in that year alone). You could group them into a "lot" and I bet you'd get a decent price from people wanting to cherrypick. I'm sure there are groupings like that throughout your collection if you had the time or desire to do smaller lots.

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, TetonJoe said:

A quick sort shows top 100 are worth about $53,000. Top 250 about $82,000. Really interested in that 80/10 rule.

OK....I'm pressed for time now, will have to look at the entire inventory later (plus, I'm not an expert on these types of coins).

But that said....the Top 100 coins are worth an average of $530.  The Top 250 are worth an average of $328.  That means the next 150 (coins 101-250) are worth about $193 on average.

I would keep going up to the point where the coins fall BELOW $100 per.  That is probably about 350-500 coins.  Spend most of your effort THERE.....get 70-85% of FMV for those coins....then get 30% or 40% or whatever you can on the rest. 

We're all different, but if it were ME....I would rather dump the 2nd grouping at 35% FMV and get all the $$$ up front....rather than sell them over a long period of time with all the headaches, hassles, and time & effort.  If you knew FOR SURE that you'd get closer to 70% FMV, then yeah, maybe it's worth it.  But if the 2 choices are 30-35% right NOW.....vs....40% dribbled out over 9 months (maybe longer).....I'll take the former.

[TetonJoe]

Ok - great!! Starting a log on some batching with all the suggestions so far.