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Cromwell Crown
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27 posts in this topic

I sent several gold coins into NCS and then to regrade at NGC.  I received notification that two of the Double Eagles did not require conservation.  I would send it.  Looks to be in good shape to me.

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It looks too perfect for its era, I guess is the way I'd put it. I agree with Lancek's recommendation about physical dimensions. If authentic, it'd be a very nice KM #D207 example and rather valuable. You'd want to caliper it very well because the diameter of the standard coin is 39.5mm while there's a Dutch copy measuring 40mm. The distinction could perhaps be lost in individual variations so I'd caliper it at several points and average them. The differences between the two in detail seem very fine, but the forehead seems to slope backward on yours (says something about Cromwell, in my personal opinion) in a way characteristic of the English mintage. I don't have an immediate resource for the weight.

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1 hour ago, AccidentalCollector said:

I'm pretty sure it's authentic. Maybe a more accurate thing would be to say, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to tell that it's not authentic. My father owned a coin shop for decades, so I'm sure he checked what he could before he bought it. Of course, he could have been wrong.

For your sake I hope it's real, because it is an attractive piece and potentially valuable (as in four figures might be reasonable). I wouldn't clean it or ask for it to be cleaned. If the holder is older, I'd get it into a new one, avoiding finger contact. If it doesn't move to a magnet, that doesn't prove it genuine, but does prove it's not a cheesy plated steel counterfeit. That's the only year of issue of that type (and what look to be two copy subtypes; I saw a second listed in my old Limey coin catalogue).

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Okay. Thanks for the feedback everyone. I hope it's authentic too. Mostly because I don't want to think that my father was fooled. Although he would have told me "it's just the cost of doing business." 

I will not opt for the conservation when I send it in. Reading the submission form, it sounds like I should put it into a flip without staples in order to send it in. I'll be careful not to touch it and will be careful with the staples. 

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I've never sent a coin in for grading myself, but if I understand the process correctly, there's an extra fee for verifying subtypes or variants. If there is one, I'd pay it in this case, just to be dead cold certain of what you have.

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On 12/28/2019 at 2:37 PM, Lancek said:

The number of varieties they attribute on foreign coins is very limited.  If you didn't see in on their VarietyPlus then it may just not be an option.

From what I can gather on posts in the "Ask NGC" subsection sometimes a Variety isn't listed on VarietyPlus but will be attributed and listed once a properly identified coin has been received.  It's usually a question for @DWLange and has to be of significance.

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I personally would be highly suspicious of this coin. These have been extensively counterfeited. The general details look a bit off to me, but that could be due to the pictures. I believe someone mentioned the Dutch copy, but the portrait doesn’t align and from what I can tell the overrate is present on your example (1657/8). There is only one variety of this type. That would make this ESC-10 (S-3226) if genuine. To any extent, it is worth the gamble to submit it. I wish you all the best! 

I have extensive experience with NGC’s variety plus and I have yet to be disappointed. Most of the varieties that I collect are not listed but a quick email to customer service or a short note attached to my submission usually resolves any issues. In this case, it seems pretty straightforward. I would just check the Variety Plus box and list ESC-10 as the variety.  There are numerous NGC graded examples with this attribution listed on the label so I have no doubt that they will attribute it, assuming it is genuine. 

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1 hour ago, Mk123 said:

OP, wow I hope this coin is authentic and grades! Please keep us updated!!

Always interesting when one comes in that isn't a bad fake that we all immediately call out as junk. It'll be a bit of a heartbreaker if it's fake.

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Thanks everyone for the advice. I will keep you all posted regardless of the outcome. I will list ESC-10 as the variety. When moving it to the plastic flip, I checked the weight and magnetism and they both checked out. The writing on the edge is pretty cool, I couldn't appreciate that before. I know it's not the "Dutch Copy," but it is suspiciously well preserved hence the skeptisism.  Now to navigating the world of registered mail. 

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5 minutes ago, AccidentalCollector said:

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will keep you all posted regardless of the outcome. I will list ESC-10 as the variety. When moving it to the plastic flip, I checked the weight and magnetism and they both checked out. The writing on the edge is pretty cool, I couldn't appreciate that before. I know it's not the "Dutch Copy," but it is suspiciously well preserved hence the skeptisism.  Now to navigating the world of registered mail. 

I don't know about using Registered Mail because that might add a month to travel time. I made that mistake once with a health insurance premium, to my major regret. Certified Return Receipt and Insured (I'd insure it for several grand; insurance isn't very expensive). However, before I did this, I'd search Ebay for 'cromwell crown 1658' and take a good look at the restrikes shown vs. those purported to be authentic--just to get an idea of the possible outcomes, and to note some people who seem to be presenting as authentic coins for which they are willing to accept pittances.

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8 minutes ago, AccidentalCollector said:

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will keep you all posted regardless of the outcome. I will list ESC-10 as the variety. When moving it to the plastic flip, I checked the weight and magnetism and they both checked out. The writing on the edge is pretty cool, I couldn't appreciate that before. I know it's not the "Dutch Copy," but it is suspiciously well preserved hence the skeptisism.  Now to navigating the world of registered mail. 

The registered mail may be one of the safest way to go but it takes forever for them to get a package there. I hope your coin is that great one we all are looking for. good luck

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Registered is the safest way to go, and once you get over about $1000 in declared value it is also cheaper (you can also get much higher coverage.  Insured mail is limited to $10K, Registered to $50K).  Yes it can be slow (although I've never really had much trouble with that) but you know that it WILL get there

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2 hours ago, AccidentalCollector said:

No image services, I did ask for variety. 

Were we right about that one?

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14 hours ago, AccidentalCollector said:

Update: Just checked the submission online

It was graded: AU details, comment cleaned

Obviously, I wish it hadn't been cleaned but its better than being a fake. 

This is so much more enjoyable than having to tell person after person that their coin is a fake. Congratulations!! I am happy for you!

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9 hours ago, JKK said:

Were we right about that one?

Description: 1658/7 ENGLAND CROMWELL BULL-240 ESC-10 CROWN. So you were right about the variety. I personally, do not understand the abbreviations or acronyms ESC and BULL but I assume they are just a way to categorize and catalog. 

Yes, I'm very pleased it's genuine. I'm also quite pleased with the level of support I got from this community. Makes me consider attending the local coin club. So thank you all. 

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It helped that you brought something interesting. People don't post those daily. Most people are posting things we find in our own pockets, and many of those think that they have just found their retirement, and we have to tell them a whole lot of "no." Even more so with 1804 silver dollars, 1776 Continental dollars, and such. One might understand where we'd fatigue of seeing those and telling people what they do not want to hear, over and over.

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