New Acquisition.

[Anubis63]

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

I checked the price on the NGC Price Guid website and it has an 1893 $5.00 gold MS63 for $800.00 + that is the home work I do when I buy a certified coin. You know that's why I asked you all hear for anyway you don't know what I do so please, with the insuts.

[MarkFeld]

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

I checked the price on the NGC Price Guid website and it has an 1893 $5.00 gold MS63 for $800.00 + that is the home work I do when I buy a certified coin. You know that's why I asked you all hear for anyway you don't know what I do so please, with the insuts.

 

If the NGC price guide price is $800, it's highly inflated compared to the current average selling price for that coin.

 

If you are going to rely just on that, or any other price guide, you're doing poor homework. Of course, that's obviously your choice and your right. Have fun, but know that you're throwing money away.

[mumu]

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

Well I wouldn't be this hard on him. This is al technically one deal. He got out of the bad one with this one. He traded $650 one time and he went from having that polished thing he started out with, to the $5 gold. In a sense if the $650 was already gone, he traded in the polished thing for the gold, which is actually a great deal.

 

Now that being said, if he ultimately overpaid by paying 650 for the end coin then I will argue that you cant say that with the certainty the opinions of the first coin had. The coin may have premium eye appeal, may be undergraded, may be something else. Otherwise every sale at Legend or CRO or any number of dealers would be a bad deal too no?

[MarkFeld]

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

Well I wouldn't be this hard on him. This is al technically one deal. He got out of the bad one with this one. He traded $650 one time and he went from having that polished thing he started out with, to the $5 gold. In a sense if the $650 was already gone, he traded in the polished thing for the gold, which is actually a great deal.

 

Now that being said, if he ultimately overpaid by paying 650 for the end coin then I will argue that you cant say that with the certainty the opinions of the first coin had. The coin may have premium eye appeal, may be undergraded, may be something else. Otherwise every sale at Legend or CRO or any number of dealers would be a bad deal too no?

 

Instead of the first bad deal or the second/replacement bad deal, he could have tried to return the original coin. And he probably would have been successful.

 

He's also (as he's perfectly free to do) continuing to do business with a dealer who described as "gem" a coin that he "admitted" was a 63. Of course, we don't even know if the coin in question was a Proof or less than 63 quality.

 

I realize that I've been harsh, in an effort to try to open the eyes of the original poster. I'm bowing out of this thread, now.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

Good morning, Mark. I assume you did not receive the Christmas present you may have wanted, considering your remark as it is somewhat out of character and has a feel of exasperation.

 

As you many times mention, you have not seen the coin. You don't know if it is a "bad deal" or not. As you have mentioned in the past, we all continue to learn no matter how long we collect. A slight example; when a collector assigns a piece to a recognized dealer with an excellent reputation and knowledge of grading and upgrade candidates, to sell a piece for the collector, the piece sells at an acceptable price to the collector and dealer, and the piece is then regraded higher and sells for 50% more, did the dealer make a bad deal? Did the collector make a bad deal? Should the dealer have suggested regrading, If the coin is exceptional and the dealer stated it is?

 

the point being what is a "bad deal", really? Mr. Anubis seems to be a recipient of the "get off my lawn" syndrome. He is asking, he is learning. If NGC is considered to not be a good source of information for a person seeking to learn about value. then maybe the comments should be directed at NGC. As to sales prices, my example above is an example of the value of sales prices. They don't always tell the story. Fair enough. You and others could have pm'd, rather than posted somewhat discouraging remarks toward the member. Just my opinion, but I will accept disagreements. So the meber may.....and I stress may....have paid 25% more than a recent sale or 2. And? More than what? The opinion of who?

[Anubis63]

Dec 22nd at 10:51pm

The coin is ordered and will be arriving soon I'll put up pics when that happens.

 

Dec 23rd at 11:57pm

Yes the coin is raw and as for the discoloration it's just how it came out from the picture I will be having it graded soon but so fare this is a beautiful coin.

 

Dec 24th at 4:13pm

I bought a coin from him a while back and took it to a local dealer who said it was cleaned I didn't believe him so I sent it off to NGC anyway and it was finalized by them as an MS62 so not cleaned.

 

 

You ordered and received it as a raw, and then submitted it to NGC yesterday (Dec. 23rd)? And now you said you it was finalized from NGC as MS62. It doesn't take NGC service 1-2 days to receiving your coin, grading it, put it in holder, and shipping. It took them 3 days+5 days for shipping to few weeks to process.

 

It took over 1 to too weeks to get it back from NGC I don't know where you thought I said 3-5 days I send in quit a few to them. I get $150.00 credit a year.

[Anubis63]

OK, if anyone is still following this thread I have decided to exchange the seated lib. dime for a 1893 MS63 graded by NGC $5.00 dollar gold coin for $650.00 so I am listening to what you all said and again your input is well received. Any thoughts on this exchange?

 

Did you even bother to check recent sales prices for the 1893 $5? The last few that have sold at public auction other than on EBay sold in the $500 range. How many bad deals do you want to make?

 

 

Good morning, Mark. I assume you did not receive the Christmas present you may have wanted, considering your remark as it is somewhat out of character and has a feel of exasperation.

 

As you many times mention, you have not seen the coin. You don't know if it is a "bad deal" or not. As you have mentioned in the past, we all continue to learn no matter how long we collect. A slight example; when a collector assigns a piece to a recognized dealer with an excellent reputation and knowledge of grading and upgrade candidates, to sell a piece for the collector, the piece sells at an acceptable price to the collector and dealer, and the piece is then regraded higher and sells for 50% more, did the dealer make a bad deal? Did the collector make a bad deal? Should the dealer have suggested regrading, If the coin is exceptional and the dealer stated it is?

 

the point being what is a "bad deal", really? Mr. Anubis seems to be a recipient of the "get off my lawn" syndrome. He is asking, he is learning. If NGC is considered to not be a good source of information for a person seeking to learn about value. then maybe the comments should be directed at NGC. As to sales prices, my example above is an example of the value of sales prices. They don't always tell the story. Fair enough. You and others could have pm'd, rather than posted somewhat discouraging remarks toward the member. Just my opinion, but I will accept disagreements. So the meber may.....and I stress may....have paid 25% more than a recent sale or 2. And? More than what? The opinion of who?

 

I couldn't say that any better it's hard with pictures. Thanks

[nk1nk]

I rarely see eye to eye with mcknowitall (he's much taller than me) but I agree with his post 100%. I can see why the dealer in question brings up red flags for mark but I'm very surprised by his remarks when he's such an advocate of seeing the coin in question and basing opinions solely on the coin. Recently a bone heads paid at minimum of double for ironically a double eagle at great collections that marks guess is that the two "sharp" bidders must have seen the coin in hand and thought it was way undergraded. why so much slack for them, they easily could have been new collectors not knowing what they are doing and obviously didn't research recent auction sales but somehow this guy who did his best to get out of an even uglier situation gets the harsh treatment?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to clarify Marks stated position

[MJ]

$5 1893's in 63 sell in the $450- 500 range.

 

The last two recent NGC 64's sold at $588 and $650 respectively.

 

mark

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Is that the point, though?

[MJ]

Is that the point, though?

 

Well the OP said, " I checked the price on the NGC Price Guid website and it has an 1893 $5.00 gold MS63 for $800.00 + that is the home work I do when I buy a certified coin.".

 

So I figure I few real world data points might might shed some light. That's all nothing more.

 

Blind dates rarely work out nor do buying coins In this manner do either. The OP is free to spend his money in anyway he sees fit. Others are free to comment on it since the OP was seeking opinions. If buying common date coins sight unseen ( or even sight seen ) for that matter at 40% over recent established sales Is his jam them so be it.

 

mark

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Real world data points are in the eye of the beholder, as is judging the purchase as good or bad without seeing the coin. Comments are fine, I agree, within an acceptable parameter of courtesy. The member was getting slammed. As to the percentage you quote, it may or may not be, and again, it doesn't matter as that is not the point. The point is declaring a bad deal without seeing the coin, and declaring the research faulty because he based it on NGC pricing. I don't read where anyone is slamming NGC for any possible misleading information that a new collector seeking advice used, if those commenting think NGC is so wrong. I don't understand how anybody can state their source of information is the correct source, when they have not seen the coin, yet those individuals that are doing so are always at the head of the pack with buy the coin and seeing the coin before making a judgement, yet pulled the get off my lawn act on this member. I happen to think that is not a very good way to help or teach or encourage.

[MJ]

1) The NGC price guide is in fact out of whack on this coin. The OP quoting that number as a his reference point is showing a certain degree of naivety. It takes about 60 seconds to get real world selling information. Feld was a little harsh but at that point in the thread he dispensed a little bit of tough love. I think the OP could use it just based on his accounts in this thread. Odds are Mark was doing him a huge favor regardless of his delivery or bedside manner.

 

Anyways I'm not going to be party to running this thread count up. Do your lawyer thing , do your consumer advocate thing and do your moral compass thing to your hearts content.

 

The OP can buy and sell coins at any prices he cares to and use whatever information he wants to in regards of research. Heck he doesn't need to do any research. It's his money. He can light it on fire and it won't effect me. I think Feld and others echoing the similar sentiment were only trying to help in the grand scheme of things.

 

mark

 

 

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

1) The NGC price guide is in fact out of whack on this coin. The OP quoting that number as a his reference point is showing a certain degree of naivety. It takes about 60 seconds to get real world selling information. Feld was a little harsh but at that point in the thread he dispensed a little bit of tough love. I think the OP could use it just based on his accounts in this thread. Odds are Mark was doing him a huge favor regardless of his delivery or bedside manner.

 

Anyways I'm not going to be party to running this thread count up. Do your lawyer thing , do your consumer advocate thing and do your moral compass thing to your hearts content.

 

The OP can buy and sell coins at any prices he cares to and use whatever information he wants to in regards of research. Heck he doesn't need to do any research. It's his money. He can light it on fire and it won't effect me. I think Feld and others echoing the similar sentiment were only trying to help in the grand scheme of things.

 

mark

 

 

 

You simply can't resist being discourteous. If you don't care for my posts, don't read and don't comment.

 

No. It was not a huge favor.It was discourteous and not tough love. Dispensing such tough love can be done by PM, and as opined by Mr. Feld in the past, there is no reason for discourtesy or snarky criticism.You may also PM me any time you like, when you get over your personal childish rant. Have you contacted NGC with your opinion that their pricing is out of whack? After all, new collectors are effected by the info. I am also very sure that NGC would like to know that their information is considered naive to rely on.

 

If the member's choices don't effect you, then it might have been more courteous to just refrain from commenting. It does effect me. I detest discourtesy, especially toward collectors that seek to learn and ask for opinion.

[Afterword]

"Odds are Mark was doing him a huge favor regardless of his delivery or bedside manner."

 

 

 

 

Unless your objective is to severely limit participation on this message board, delivery should matter.

 

[MarkFeld]

As best I can remember, this is the first time I've knowingly posted to a thread, after stating that I would bow out. I wrote "knowingly", because on one or more occasions, I have posted to such threads, unaware that I'd previously said I would not do so.

 

I apologize to the original poster/Anubis63 for my harshness. I could and should have been more compassionate, gentler in my words and more helpful.

 

Also, thanks to Nick for your understanding and helpful message. In large part, it was responsible for this post, even though I doubt that you expected it. And hopefully, you know why I'm posting this here, rather than via PM.

[nk1nk]

As best I can remember, this is the first time I've knowingly posted to a thread, after stating that I would bow out. I wrote "knowingly", because on one or more occasions, I have posted to such threads, unaware that I'd previously said I would not do so.

 

I apologize to the original poster/Anubis63 for my harshness. I could and should have been more compassionate, gentler in my words and more helpful.

 

Also, thanks to Nick for your understanding and helpful message. In large part, it was responsible for this post, even though I doubt that you expected it. And hopefully, you know why I'm posting this here, rather than via PM.

 

I'm glad you didn't bow out, I appreciate this post. ?

[coinman_23885]

As best I can remember, this is the first time I've knowingly posted to a thread, after stating that I would bow out. I wrote "knowingly", because on one or more occasions, I have posted to such threads, unaware that I'd previously said I would not do so.

 

I apologize to the original poster/Anubis63 for my harshness. I could and should have been more compassionate, gentler in my words and more helpful.

 

Also, thanks to Nick for your understanding and helpful message. In large part, it was responsible for this post, even though I doubt that you expected it. And hopefully, you know why I'm posting this here, rather than via PM.

 

FWIW, I see nothing wrong with your posts. You were merely being candid. I don't know how others may view it, but I have always appreciated your candidness with me in the past including with coins posted here, pieces purchased from you when you were a dealer, and your help in auction viewing.

 

To the original poster, I wish you the very best with your new purchase. Mark Feld wasn't being mean to you, and is merely trying to be helpful. While I think that many of the posters and collectors that have responded to your post so far are knowledgeable, I do think it is worth pointing out that Mark is a former NGC grader, an occasional CAC grader, and he has worked with numerous national dealerships including his own in the past. He is currently a senior numismatist with Heritage Auctions/Galleries. He is also one of the most honest and helpful dealers/numismatists you will ever meet.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

To whom much is given, much is expected.

 

Mr. Feld apologized with sincerity and courtesy. Nobody can expect more from a person.

[MJ]

As best I can remember, this is the first time I've knowingly posted to a thread, after stating that I would bow out. I wrote "knowingly", because on one or more occasions, I have posted to such threads, unaware that I'd previously said I would not do so.

 

I apologize to the original poster/Anubis63 for my harshness. I could and should have been more compassionate, gentler in my words and more helpful.

 

Also, thanks to Nick for your understanding and helpful message. In large part, it was responsible for this post, even though I doubt that you expected it. And hopefully, you know why I'm posting this here, rather than via PM.

 

FWIW, I see nothing wrong with your posts. You were merely being candid. I don't know how others may view it, but I have always appreciated your candidness with me in the past including with coins posted here, pieces purchased from you when you were a dealer, and your help in auction viewing.

 

To the original poster, I wish you the very best with your new purchase. Mark Feld wasn't being mean to you, and is merely trying to be helpful. While I think that many of the posters and collectors that have responded to your post so far are knowledgeable, I do think it is worth pointing out that Mark is a former NGC grader, an occasional CAC grader, and he has worked with numerous national dealerships including his own in the past. He is currently a senior numismatist with Heritage Auctions/Galleries. He is also one of the most honest and helpful dealers/numismatists you will ever meet.

 

^^^^

 

This

 

mark

[comicdonna]

As best I can remember, this is the first time I've knowingly posted to a thread, after stating that I would bow out. I wrote "knowingly", because on one or more occasions, I have posted to such threads, unaware that I'd previously said I would not do so.

 

I apologize to the original poster/Anubis63 for my harshness. I could and should have been more compassionate, gentler in my words and more helpful.

 

Also, thanks to Nick for your understanding and helpful message. In large part, it was responsible for this post, even though I doubt that you expected it. And hopefully, you know why I'm posting this here, rather than via PM.

 

FWIW, I see nothing wrong with your posts. You were merely being candid. I don't know how others may view it, but I have always appreciated your candidness with me in the past including with coins posted here, pieces purchased from you when you were a dealer, and your help in auction viewing.

 

To the original poster, I wish you the very best with your new purchase. Mark Feld wasn't being mean to you, and is merely trying to be helpful. While I think that many of the posters and collectors that have responded to your post so far are knowledgeable, I do think it is worth pointing out that Mark is a former NGC grader, an occasional CAC grader, and he has worked with numerous national dealerships including his own in the past. He is currently a senior numismatist with Heritage Auctions/Galleries. He is also one of the most honest and helpful dealers/numismatists you will ever meet.

Yep. I should also state that if I ask for opinions on a coin, I wouldn't want the answer sugar coated by Mark or anyone else.

[Afterword]

"I could and should have been more compassionate, gentler in my words and more helpful."

 

 

 

It would seem that some do not agree with you, Mark.

[Anubis63]

Thanks guys I tried to listen and follow advise from those I felt knew more than I. I searched NGC price guide, My Red Book guide and the Grey Sheet (had a little trouble finding it there) I was starting to feel that I may have made the wrong decision for following this advice but then you wrote on my behalf. Thanks. As for the others I still want to say thank you I hope you know where I coming from when I say that as it is with a heart of gratitude.

[david3142]

I applaud the open attitude. To answer your questions:

 

Do not use Redbook pricing, especially for gold which is heavily dependent on spot.

The NGC price guide is probably 20-30% above on average and ccasionally way out of whack.

The quarterly grey sheet has type gold prices on the front page. To get specific date info you would need the correct monthly supplement. This is a good resource for many coins.

Auction records are available from PCGS coinfacts, NGC auction history as well as Heritage and Stacks archives. This is your best pricing guide. Remember that there will often be a range. Look at the individual coins and see where yours falls, relatively.

[Anubis63]

Thanks for the detailed info. So it looks like it's best to follow the auction prices. I would have thought otherwise because of how auctions inherently are such as mentioned above some people might pay double for what a coin is actually worth as the bidders are locked in a heated bidding war. Again thanks so much for the info.

[Anubis63]

This one goes to Mark Feld. Frankly I don't know what to say... to have a former NGC grader taking the time to reply to my post is quite an honer however whether or not I took your reply the wrong way I have to say, to me, it sounded belittling, but, because I do not judge a person based on one post I kept reading and posting and as usual end up learning quite a bit about the hobby and the people who are here to help. Thanks.