The REAL Value posted by Jackson

[CSJournals-migration]

A coin is ultimately worth what someone will pay for it

 

Okay, so it appears that the FIFTH time is the charm. As some may recall from an earlier journal I wrote, I have been bidding weekly on the 2016 Canada S$2 bimetallic Polar Bear proof issue ( say that in one breath.) Technically it is the 99.9% silver proof issue from the fine silver set and the inner ring is gilt with 24k gold--hence, what one must go through to collect Canadian coins/series.

So this is the fifth time that this coin has appeared, slabbed by NGC in PF69UCAM by this seller. Each time I have entered the same bid-slightly above $40 which I consider fair considering the pricey cost of the whole proof set, the grading fees etc.

If you'll recall, I lost the prior 4 auctions of this item to other bidders on ebay-all of whom had disproportionate numbers of bids on this singular sellers items, LARGE numbers of bid retractions and hundreds of items bid upon per month.

So I finally win the auction at $42 and some change, but what SHOULD I have won the coin for? **** As a disclaimer, I do realize that the value, by understood economics, is the $42 as someone ( myself) was willing to pay that amount***

But what could I expect to receive for it if I were to turn around and list it myself on ebay?

I had placed a bid early in the auction of $42 and "let it ride". The first big jump was from $5 to $25 after a few days--this was by a**v feedback 731 with 69 items bid on the past 30 days and 100% with this seller ( it doesn't take a genius to see what's going on here.)

As the final day neared before auction end there were 3 more accounts that chimed in...l**8 with 69 bids and 89% with this seller in 30 days.....O**N with 2784 total bids on 1600 items at 58% and 9 retractions and finally the last 2 bids to push the final price up another $8 was W**A with 73 feedback total but over 100 items bid on just this month at 78% activity with this lone seller.

Ultimately I am torn on this issue. Through perseverance and discipline not to raise my bid and to place the same bid weekly, I was able to acquire the coin I wanted at a price I was willing to pay--but on the flip side I feel a bit cheated. Haven't I been schill bid for an extra $17 above what the last real bidder had bid?

This is the world of ebay when you bid on coins from the large sellers with 5 digit feedback/sales numbers--they most likely have employees or fellow sellers who network this 40% increase into sales--and every now and then they will get a "live one" who will chase their bids well above a coin's value in the heat of the moment.

Be wise, be patient and know your max bid at all times.....happy hunting all. 2016 Canada Silver Twonie PF69UCAM

 

See more journals by Jackson

[CBC]

Nice-looking coin, and congratulations on being persistent and disciplined in bidding on it. I get more fed up with ebay every time I open their website. You wade through all of the misrepresented junk (example: Walking Liberty halves described as "VF" that don't have full dates or rims, etc),starting bids 30% above retail, Buy-It -Now items at 50% above retail, and dealers listing evey cull in their junk box, finally locate the one in a thousand item that meets your criteria and appears to be a true auction, then get gamed by shill bidders. Even worse, you finally win an auction and several days later....receive a totally different coin in the mail. I have had to return three ebay items in the last six months when the listing photos clearly showed a specific variety (two were RPMs and one was a reverse of 1878 Morgan) and the delivered coin clearly did not. And in all three cases I was stuck for the return postage.

[World Colonial]

You probably could have waited and won it with a lower bit later. Just depends upon how long you are willing to wait because I agree with you, the coin is probably not worth more than $25 and it doesn't look like anyone else wanted to pay more for it.,

[jackson64]

Typical condescending, snarky response I expect from these forums--please do not comment on my journal posts in the future WC--thanks......

[Lucky One]

If you know they are crooked just do not buy from them, period, that is the only way you can ever be safe. As for buying coins right on ebay if it is an auction, do what I do- save the item to your watch list and do not bid on it. When the item finally comes up to hammer time, bring it up on the screen and play sniper in the last ten seconds. It is best to be silent in an auction until the very last moment or you get the opposition anxious, and then they go crazy. I remember one live auction many years ago, was building a small wood shop and looking at buying a large industrial table saw. I pre-scoped it a few days earlier, looked them up online, found the price of a new one with warranty and was ready to go steal this old beast that needed new bearings for about half the cost of a new one. It didn't turn out that way because three guys started bidding like banshees and I never got a bid in. The saw sold for MORE than the cost of a new one with warranty. If any of the three had waited, the price would have been much less and they wouldn't have wasted so much. Can't blame a shill for that debacle, but one thing is for sure- if you don't show your hand until the last second, they'll never expect it or see it coming. Now go try to 'steal' a nice coin from a more honest seller. Good luck!

[Lucky One]

Typical condescending, snarky response I expect from these forums--please do not comment on my journal posts in the future WC--thanks......

 

WC is a stand-up guy and I'm sure you just took what he said wrong. I happen to agree with the gentleman- patience is a great virtue. Peace my friend.

[Lucky One]

Nice-looking coin, and congratulations on being persistent and disciplined in bidding on it. I get more fed up with ebay every time I open their website. You wade through all of the misrepresented junk (example: Walking Liberty halves described as "VF" that don't have full dates or rims, etc),starting bids 30% above retail, Buy-It -Now items at 50% above retail, and dealers listing evey cull in their junk box, finally locate the one in a thousand item that meets your criteria and appears to be a true auction, then get gamed by shill bidders. Even worse, you finally win an auction and several days later....receive a totally different coin in the mail. I have had to return three ebay items in the last six months when the listing photos clearly showed a specific variety (two were RPMs and one was a reverse of 1878 Morgan) and the delivered coin clearly did not. And in all three cases I was stuck for the return postage.

 

I have been using ebay for fifteen years now and agree with you- it is the cesspool of the internet when it comes to *scumbag* sellers and is the #1 dealer dumping ground. It has taken many years to learn how to sell in that mess when much of what you collect is RAW gem BU type. I have returned much, and in fact some sellers have so much overgraded trash that you learn 90% of who to avoid on the very first purchase. What I have found to be worse, at least for me since I am a proficient grader, is that I return almost nothing but slabs now, very rarely do I return a raw coin. Tells you something, and that is why I call ebay the dealer dumping ground- ever go to a coin show and see a slab bargain box? There's a reason they were there- they couldn't sell them at any price for years! THAT is what ends up on ebay.

 

As for return postage- force the issue with ebay and they'll force the seller to pay the return postage. How do I know? I sold an item that the buyer claimed didn't work properly. It was a electronic gold tester that was described as used and needing the pen replaced because they dry out with use, a twenty dollar replaceable. (it worked when returned, go figure) It had a full return privilege and was specified in the policy that return postage was on the buyer. In the end, we took our only neg in many years for refusing to pay it, and ebay took the cost of returning it out of our paypal account. The buyer is obviously boss on ebay, use that to your advantage.

 

One last thing- if they have a store and are a preferred seller, they get a substantial discount on their final value fees. If they are truly dishonest and you are sure without a doubt, it is something you can use for leverage- if you open a complaint and the seller forces you to elevate it to a claim, the seller takes a hit. If too many hits occur in a certain period of time, the seller can lose that discount. Right now it is 20%, so a big seller stands to lose a LOT of $$$ if he doesn't do the right thing and pay for the mistake he made (pay for return S&H). A smart seller will settle a complaint to avoid the hit. Be honest though- as a seller I know how much it hurts when someone uses that indiscriminately and hurts you without even knowing it, and ebay doesn't care who it hurts or who does the hurting, they still get their cut...

[Six Mile Rick]

It's a GREAT new addition!!! What the cost was and value is will actually be between Jackson and the coin in hand.

 

For someone else to blurt a value or statement on another collectors enjoyment is uncalled for. No matter what the collective is.

 

WC --- you have made a mistake on this call for sure!!

 

Rick

[Lucky One]

It's a GREAT new addition!!! What the cost was and value is will actually be between Jackson and the coin in hand.

 

For someone else to blurt a value or statement on another collectors enjoyment is uncalled for. No matter what the collective is.

 

WC --- you have made a mistake on this call for sure!!

 

Rick

 

with all respect Rick, I can't see anything wrong with WC's post- he was in total agreement with Jackson from my reading of it and I think both of you may have taken it wrong. I haven't been here on the forums much but I have seen WC's posts and have conversed privately with him as well and I don't see him as wanting to insult anyone, he just offered his opinion. I tend to agree with him and Jackson- the real value was at the $25 point that Jackson mentioned, where the alleged shill came into play. How can WC be insulting when he simply agreed with the gentleman? And why should we be expected to withhold an opinion that isn't meant to be insulting?

 

Peace to all...

 

[World Colonial]

It's a GREAT new addition!!! What the cost was and value is will actually be between Jackson and the coin in hand.

 

For someone else to blurt a value or statement on another collectors enjoyment is uncalled for. No matter what the collective is.

 

WC --- you have made a mistake on this call for sure!!

 

Rick

 

with all respect Rick, I can't see anything wrong with WC's post- he was in total agreement with Jackson from my reading of it and I think both of you may have taken it wrong. I haven't been here on the forums much but I have seen WC's posts and have conversed privately with him as well and I don't see him as wanting to insult anyone, he just offered his opinion. I tend to agree with him and Jackson- the real value was at the $25 point that Jackson mentioned, where the alleged shill came into play. How can WC be insulting when he simply agreed with the gentleman? And why should we be expected to withhold an opinion that isn't meant to be insulting?

 

Peace to all...

 

You correctly interpreted my post. Those who claim otherwise did not.

[Revenant]

I picked up a gold coin recently where it was up for sale on eBay from a coin shop. Rather than buy it through eBay I contacted them and bought the coin directly from them for $20 less than they were listing it for. Saved me $20 and saved them eBay fees. I'm planning something similar soon. Hoping it works out because I'm going to have to convince them to come down quite a bit on their listed price to make it worth it.