Danye West Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 100% "Eye Appeal"? http://coins.ha.com/itm/franklin-half-dollars/half-dollars/1951-50c-ms65-full-bell-lines-pcgs-pcgs-population-698-156-ngc-census-126-31-numismedia-wsl-price-for-problem-fre/p/131612-20022.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Not for me....but I wear glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physics-fan3.14 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The obverse is a 64. The reverse is a 63. It may have gotten a bump for color, but those pictures don't make it look very good. It is nowhere near FBL either. That is what we call an "overgraded dog." Stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Colors should have no impact on "grade." Same applies to chickens and eggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillJones Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The scratches on the bell on the reverse take it out of MS-65 territory. The thing was "market based priced" for the color. When I was dealer I found that Franklin Half Dollars were among the most inconsistently graded coins of all. I used to cherry pick the under graded ones and sell them quickly. I didn't do a specialty work because these coins are not in my wheelhouse, but I never lost money on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Coin Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 What were the 100 coins that they saw before and after? I would think that originality and surface preservation trump technical white gems. How much value is assigned by that grade vs. a 64? Plus I don't blame grading companies for a few apparently inconsistent grades which when seen in hand may be strongly arguable at that level vs. all its peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coinman1794 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 This coin grades MS65 over MS62, and I would be happy at MS63+. The color is exceptional for 1951-P. The reverse, however, is too scratched up to bump this coin to gem condition, in my opinion. The bell lines may be there, but often don't show up in images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMAG100 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Personally I don't really care for the color either....My impulse would be to avoid the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brg5658 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 It is nowhere near FBL either. Really? It looks like it meets PCGS requirements of full bottom lines to me. It does look over-graded to me at MS65. I'd have guessed MS63 based on these images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumu Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The bell looks to have been cracked a few times. And Benji looks like he has a beard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkerfan Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 It doesn't look FBL to me, either. There are also way to many scratches/abrasions on the bell for me. The obverse tone is decent yet not remarkable. I would have graded it MS 63 or 64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyMan Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 FOR PCGS GRADING, the obverse TECHNICALLY falls within their 65 range, although I personally would normally expect the obverse to be a 64 to 64+ at PCGS. The reverse I would consider PCGS standard MS63 range. Again, for PCGS, the reverse, given that they grade only the bottom bell lines, is FBL. The minor nick in the bottom bell lines to the left of the crack is generally considered OK by PCGS for giving FBL status (UNLESS the date/mm does not normally come FBL). Now, if the gouge in the UPPER bell lines to the right of the crack had been in the lower bell lines, then no FBL. With regards to the color, 1951 Franklins are very tough to find with decent color. This is very nice color for a 1951, BUT I have never seen a cat's eye toning pattern on any Franklin, which does make me wonder... Assuming the color is "real" for PCGS purposes, I would have expected this coin to be MS64FBL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny9434 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 pass. id wait for something that looks better. jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danye West Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Something did. It's probably a bit overgraded too though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMAG100 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The bell looks to have been cracked a few times. And Benji looks like he has a beard. That is his 5 o'clock shadow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physics-fan3.14 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 It is nowhere near FBL either. Really? It looks like it meets PCGS requirements of full bottom lines to me. Whenever I make a comment about FBL, I use my own standards. It might meet PCGS' "standards," but that doesn't really count. (Actually, there are enough marks on the bottom set that it may not even meet their so-called standards - but they pick and choose when to apply them anyways). I would not pay a FBL premium for that coin, because both sets of bell lines are not full and uninterrupted. Thus, it is not FBL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coinman_23885 Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Whenever I make a comment about FBL, I use my own standards. It might meet PCGS' "standards," but that doesn't really count. I disagree. When there are multiple industry standards that are accepted, I think it is imprudent to say, without qualification, that it is not FBL. It depends on the standard used. When you make broad statements like that, you suggest (whether intentionally or not) that it doesn't meet any of the accepted standards which is wrong. Using the published guidelines by both TPGs, it meets PCGS's standard but not NGC's standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 "When there are multiple industry standards" it means here is no standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Coin Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 So many coins in Unc. holders would go AU if dipped out. The toning *covers* a little friction. If this were mainly a scholarly, technical grading hobby without so much money chasing special colors it would be another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkerfan Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 My standard would be the stricter standard----in this case NGC, as you will have a better coin with completely full bell lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizonadesertrat Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 "When there are multiple industry standards" it means here is no standard. You hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afterword Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 When you are dealing with the subjective, you cannot help but have many standards. Even if NGC's and PCGS's stated standards were identical, they would many times still result in opposing conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brg5658 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 .... Whenever I make a comment about FBL, I use my own standards. It might meet PCGS' "standards," but that doesn't really count. ... I would not pay a FBL premium for that coin, because both sets of bell lines are not full and uninterrupted. Thus, it is not FBL. Um, yeah, because that makes a lot of sense.... The coin in question was graded by PCGS, not by "Jason Poe Coin Grading Service" so I think it makes a lot more sense to answer the OP's question given the reality of the coin. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Times Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Jason Poe Coin Grading Service JPCGS A new TPG? Best, HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hmmm....does JPCGS grade driveways or maybe do building lot preparation? I've got this commercial property for redevelopment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrantique Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hmmm....does JPCGS grade driveways or maybe do building lot preparation? I've got this commercial property for redevelopment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I found that link with the fascinating tale of how the Franklin "FBL" got upgraded from affordable coin to super-expensive: https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=26&threadid=937859&STARTPAGE=1 I also note that the Trumpeter 1907 EHR Saint was originally graded 67 by PCGS but 69 by NGC...and years later was graded 69 by PCGS !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbow roosie Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The reverse is awful. I don't see why someone even submitted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 "I also note that the Trumpeter 1907 EHR Saint was originally graded 67 by PCGS but 69 by NGC...and years later was graded 69 by PCGS !!" Well, at least the MCMVII EHR $20 is so rare that the "grade" doesn't matter - buyers with such deep pockets will evaluate the coin as-is. Heck, it could have been "graded 37-1/2" and not made any difference in the final hammer price. PS: The coin was part of the Emanuel (Ed) Trompeter Collection sold by Heritage Auctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Well, at least the MCMVII EHR $20 is so rare that the "grade" doesn't matter - buyers with such deep pockets will evaluate the coin as-is. Heck, it could have been "graded 37-1/2" and not made any difference in the final hammer price. Yup, excellent point....and if I win Powerball anytime soon, I'll prove you right !! PS: The coin was part of the Emanuel (Ed) Trompeter Collection sold by Heritage Auctions. I will TRUMPET that fact on the message boards from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
