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Over graded by 3 points?

Started by Danye West,

30 posts in this topic

physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

The obverse is a 64. The reverse is a 63. It may have gotten a bump for color, but those pictures don't make it look very good. It is nowhere near FBL either.

 

That is what we call an "overgraded dog."

 

Stay away.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

The scratches on the bell on the reverse take it out of MS-65 territory. The thing was "market based priced" for the color.

 

When I was dealer I found that Franklin Half Dollars were among the most inconsistently graded coins of all. I used to cherry pick the under graded ones and sell them quickly. I didn't do a specialty work because these coins are not in my wheelhouse, but I never lost money on them.

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

What were the 100 coins that they saw before and after? I would think that originality and surface preservation trump technical white gems. How much value is assigned by that grade vs. a 64? Plus I don't blame grading companies for a few apparently inconsistent grades which when seen in hand may be strongly arguable at that level vs. all its peers.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted

This coin grades MS65 over MS62, and I would be happy at MS63+. The color is exceptional for 1951-P. The reverse, however, is too scratched up to bump this coin to gem condition, in my opinion. The bell lines may be there, but often don't show up in images.

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brg5658

brg5658

Posted
Posted
It is nowhere near FBL either.

 

Really? It looks like it meets PCGS requirements of full bottom lines to me. hm

 

It does look over-graded to me at MS65. I'd have guessed MS63 based on these images.

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Walkerfan

Walkerfan

Posted
Posted

It doesn't look FBL to me, either.

 

There are also way to many scratches/abrasions on the bell for me.

 

The obverse tone is decent yet not remarkable.

 

I would have graded it MS 63 or 64.

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SkyMan

SkyMan

Posted
Posted

FOR PCGS GRADING, the obverse TECHNICALLY falls within their 65 range, although I personally would normally expect the obverse to be a 64 to 64+ at PCGS. The reverse I would consider PCGS standard MS63 range. Again, for PCGS, the reverse, given that they grade only the bottom bell lines, is FBL. The minor nick in the bottom bell lines to the left of the crack is generally considered OK by PCGS for giving FBL status (UNLESS the date/mm does not normally come FBL). Now, if the gouge in the UPPER bell lines to the right of the crack had been in the lower bell lines, then no FBL.

 

With regards to the color, 1951 Franklins are very tough to find with decent color. This is very nice color for a 1951, BUT I have never seen a cat's eye toning pattern on any Franklin, which does make me wonder...

 

Assuming the color is "real" for PCGS purposes, I would have expected this coin to be MS64FBL.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted
It is nowhere near FBL either.

 

Really? It looks like it meets PCGS requirements of full bottom lines to me. hm

 

Whenever I make a comment about FBL, I use my own standards. It might meet PCGS' "standards," but that doesn't really count. (Actually, there are enough marks on the bottom set that it may not even meet their so-called standards - but they pick and choose when to apply them anyways).

 

I would not pay a FBL premium for that coin, because both sets of bell lines are not full and uninterrupted. Thus, it is not FBL.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

Whenever I make a comment about FBL, I use my own standards. It might meet PCGS' "standards," but that doesn't really count.

 

I disagree. When there are multiple industry standards that are accepted, I think it is imprudent to say, without qualification, that it is not FBL. It depends on the standard used. When you make broad statements like that, you suggest (whether intentionally or not) that it doesn't meet any of the accepted standards which is wrong. Using the published guidelines by both TPGs, it meets PCGS's standard but not NGC's standard.

 

 

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

So many coins in Unc. holders would go AU if dipped out. The toning *covers* a little friction. If this were mainly a scholarly, technical grading hobby without so much money chasing special colors it would be another story.

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Afterword

Afterword

Posted
Posted

When you are dealing with the subjective, you cannot help but have many standards. Even if NGC's and PCGS's stated standards were identical, they would many times still result in opposing conclusions.

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brg5658

brg5658

Posted
Posted
....

Whenever I make a comment about FBL, I use my own standards. It might meet PCGS' "standards," but that doesn't really count.

 

...

 

I would not pay a FBL premium for that coin, because both sets of bell lines are not full and uninterrupted. Thus, it is not FBL.

 

Um, yeah, because that makes a lot of sense.... lol

 

The coin in question was graded by PCGS, not by "Jason Poe Coin Grading Service" so I think it makes a lot more sense to answer the OP's question given the reality of the coin. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

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RWB

RWB

Posted
Posted

Hmmm....does JPCGS grade driveways or maybe do building lot preparation? I've got this commercial property for redevelopment.... ;)

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GoldFinger1969

GoldFinger1969

Posted
Posted

I found that link with the fascinating tale of how the Franklin "FBL" got upgraded from affordable coin to super-expensive:

https://forums.collectors.com/messageview.aspx?catid=26&threadid=937859&STARTPAGE=1

 

I also note that the Trumpeter 1907 EHR Saint was originally graded 67 by PCGS but 69 by NGC...and years later was graded 69 by PCGS !! hm

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RWB

RWB

Posted
Posted

"I also note that the Trumpeter 1907 EHR Saint was originally graded 67 by PCGS but 69 by NGC...and years later was graded 69 by PCGS !!"

 

Well, at least the MCMVII EHR $20 is so rare that the "grade" doesn't matter - buyers with such deep pockets will evaluate the coin as-is. Heck, it could have been "graded 37-1/2" and not made any difference in the final hammer price.

 

PS: The coin was part of the Emanuel (Ed) Trompeter Collection sold by Heritage Auctions.

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GoldFinger1969

GoldFinger1969

Posted
Posted
Well, at least the MCMVII EHR $20 is so rare that the "grade" doesn't matter - buyers with such deep pockets will evaluate the coin as-is. Heck, it could have been "graded 37-1/2" and not made any difference in the final hammer price.

Yup, excellent point....and if I win Powerball anytime soon, I'll prove you right !! :grin:

 

PS: The coin was part of the Emanuel (Ed) Trompeter Collection sold by Heritage Auctions.

I will TRUMPET that fact on the message boards from now on. :grin:

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