Is there a industry excepted date when classics end and the Moderns start

[KMAG100]

I have read that all coins struck pre-1934 are considered classic coins and all coins struck after are considered modern. However in other readings, people tend to use classic to identify coins that were minted after 1934. Also if a series started being minted prior to 1934 (if that indeed is the line) are the dates after 1934 considered modern and the dates prior to 1934 considered classic? I have heard and read so many different references that it is a bit confusing where that industry excepted line is?

[Lastufka Collection]

I've always heard 1964 as the Mint stopped using silver in coins after that (except some proof sets of course).

 

That's also the definition that was used by Whitman when they published the "100 Greatest US Modern Coins" book series.

 

Of course, I don't think there is any one hard and fast definition, "modern" is subjective and vague because in at one point a 1909 VDB was "modern", and I'd think most would consider that a "classic" coin today.

[DaveG]

No, there's no generally accepted date for when Classics become Moderns.

 

For some people, it's 1964, when silver coinage generally ended.

 

For others, it's 1959, when the Memorial cent was introduced.

 

For still others, it's 1836, when the Philadelphia Mint started using steam-powered coin presses.

 

As my father used to say: "You pays your money and you takes your choices."

[cpm9ball]

I wouldn't get too concerned about it. I can think of at least two more instances where the terms "modern" and "classic" are applied to serve their own purposes.

 

Modern - when used in NGC grading guidelines

 

Classic - when referring to commemoratives

 

Neither of these have dates that coincide with the interpretations you presented.

 

Chris

[cladking]

Coins have only been minted about half of time since the pyramids were built.

 

From this perspective all coins are moderns.

 

U.S. coins changed on many parameters in 1964 so from this perspective 1965 coins are moderns.

[World Colonial]

Greg Reynolds (aka, Analyst on PCGS) wrote an article on CoinWeek several years ago explaining the origin of using 1934 as the cut-off.

 

I believe most US collectors use 1964 when 90% silver was discontinued. To my knowledge, all US modern collectors use this cut-off as well and this is the one that I think makes the most sense because coinage did not change in 1933.

[Walkerfan]

I believe most US collectors use 1964 when 90% silver was discontinued. To my knowledge, all US modern collectors use this cut-off as well and this is the one that I think makes the most sense because coinage did not change in 1933.

 

 

I Agree

[bourse28]

I would agree also although the 1964 Kennedy Halves are 90%, however the rest of the series would most definitely be considered mods.

 

I know of one dealer his wife says their cutoff is 1891 (he does not do coins after this date) so I suppose it depends on ones interests and perspective.

 

Another guy who is in my coin club, his birth year is 1950 and only collects coins and currency minted / issued this date and after as various dates have special significance to events in his life.

[KMAG100]

Thanks guys, I originally was under the impression 1964 being the cut off. But yes, after I ran into that coinweek article, I was wondering if I had it wrong.

 

The whole notion of classic or modern coins based off a date sounds counter intuitive to me. It would make more sense to base it off the age of a coin rather than a specific date. At one point every coin that was ever minted had to be considered modern during its year of issue.

 

So you old timers, what was a coin minted in 1960 in 1960 know as: modern or classic? Was the reference of division even used? Was there a cut off date that was considered classic?

[DaveG]

I don't think that the whole "modern" vs. "classic" debate came into being until the grading services were created.

 

If I recall correctly, when they were started, neither PCGS nor NGC slabbed coins minted after 1964 or so and the, when they did start slabbing recently minted coins, the collectors who wanted those coins wanted them in ultra high MS and PF grades, while collectors of earlier minted coins were still buying them in circulated grades.

[messydesk]

Depends on context. 1964 is probably the most popular because of the clad/silver transition.

 

1934 is the first year of no gold and I think also a transition to more rolled coinage being available. Early Lincoln collectors might use this as a cutoff.

 

Proof coin collectors would have reasons to use 1955, 1942, or 1916.

 

In a couple years, YNs just starting college that collect quarters might consider their birth year as the cutoff, it being the last year of the Washington quarter eagle reverse.

[Afterword]

To me it is about design, and everything beginning at and following Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Washington, Franklin and the Peace dollar are modern. No single date applies.

[World Colonial]

To me it is about design, and everything beginning at and following Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Washington, Franklin and the Peace dollar are modern. No single date applies.

 

I used 1964 as the cut-off but I don't believe collectors make any distinction with 1959-1964 Lincoln Memorial cents. The entire series is modern. I also think likewise for Jefferson nickels but the prices indicate collectors make a distinction with earlier dates, maybe using the Whitman folders which I believe ends in 1961. The 1950-D nickel is certainly viewed differently from post-1964 even though as cladking has pointed out, its a lot more common than many later dates.

 

There is also a similar dividing line with Lincoln cents with Whitman folders up to 1934 and one after. I'm not sure if collectors think of later wheat cents as modern but I am pretty sure the 09-S VDB isn't. Same concept for silver Roosies and Washingtons.

[johnny9434]

ive always went by 1934 being the end of the classics except for the commems. in 1954. it all depends how you want to look at it

[RWB]

I think of it more as a design question for circulating coins. If it's not in circulation, it's not modern. If the coin was once silver then it is the first date w/o silver that is "modern." Lincolns are modern after 1958 and Jeffersons after 1964, although the latter is entirely arbitrary.

 

Of course, it doesn't really matter except to the individual.

[comicdonna]

As long as people have been collecting coins, I am very surprised they haven't been officially broken down to various ages, like comics have. (Platinum, golden, silver bronze, copper and modern).

[Mohawk]

Sadly, there isn't an industry-wide standard and I'd say that in different nations, it's different years. US collectors seem to use 1964 for the silver connection, but NGC considers US coins from 1955 onward modern in their grading tiers.

 

I collect a lot of European coins, and the base date for me is 1945 there due to the end of World War II and how much changed politically, socially and indeed numismatically. For my German collection, the last classics are the 1945 1 and 10 Reichspfennig coins with the Eagle and Swastika. Modern Germany for me begins with the first Allied Occupation coins with the swastika removed that came later in 1945. Other major changes in coinage began around or within a few years of that date. Great Britain stopped using silver for circulation in 1947. Both the Netherlands and Turkey debuted new coin series in 1948. So 1945 makes sense there and many European collectors I know use that date as the cutoff as well. NGC defines modern for World as 1970 and later, but they are the only ones I've heard of that use that date.

 

A standardization of this would make things easier, but I don't think it would ever be a feasible thing to do with all the different coins in the world.

 

~Tom

[KMAG100]

I think of it more as a design question for circulating coins. If it's not in circulation, it's not modern. If the coin was once silver then it is the first date w/o silver that is "modern." Lincolns are modern after 1958 and Jeffersons after 1964, although the latter is entirely arbitrary.

 

Of course, it doesn't really matter except to the individual.

 

I think I will run with that one. If its in circulation its a modern. Intuitively it makes the most sense to me.

[KMAG100]

Sadly, there isn't an industry-wide standard and I'd say that in different nations, it's different years. US collectors seem to use 1964 for the silver connection, but NGC considers US coins from 1955 onward modern in their grading tiers.

 

I collect a lot of European coins, and the base date for me is 1945 there due to the end of World War II and how much changed politically, socially and indeed numismatically. For my German collection, the last classics are the 1945 1 and 10 Reichspfennig coins with the Eagle and Swastika. Modern Germany for me begins with the first Allied Occupation coins with the swastika removed that came later in 1945. Other major changes in coinage began around or within a few years of that date. Great Britain stopped using silver for circulation in 1947. Both the Netherlands and Turkey debuted new coin series in 1948. So 1945 makes sense there and many European collectors I know use that date as the cutoff as well. NGC defines modern for World as 1970 and later, but they are the only ones I've heard of that use that date.

 

A standardization of this would make things easier, but I don't think it would ever be a feasible thing to do with all the different coins in the world.

 

~Tom

 

Never considered 1945, but I can completely get why that could be a cut off date with respect to Germany.

 

However if a set date is used for the division and does not have the ability to slide forward in time at some point coins minted after the cut off date could be 200 years old and still considered modern. Which sounds silly to me.

 

At some point I am guessing we may not even have a physical currency, it will all be digital credit and debits moving around in the cloud. Heck, I would argue that 70% or better of the worlds money supply moves only digitally now with no physical exchange ever taking place.

[PerryHall]

I consider the last year of production of .900 silver circulating coins (1964) to be the end of the classic era and the modern coin era began when coins started to be made from clad base metal in I965. I think most collectors agree with this. I remember when clad coins first came out 51 years ago which really makes me feel old.

[Mohawk]

Sadly, there isn't an industry-wide standard and I'd say that in different nations, it's different years. US collectors seem to use 1964 for the silver connection, but NGC considers US coins from 1955 onward modern in their grading tiers.

 

I collect a lot of European coins, and the base date for me is 1945 there due to the end of World War II and how much changed politically, socially and indeed numismatically. For my German collection, the last classics are the 1945 1 and 10 Reichspfennig coins with the Eagle and Swastika. Modern Germany for me begins with the first Allied Occupation coins with the swastika removed that came later in 1945. Other major changes in coinage began around or within a few years of that date. Great Britain stopped using silver for circulation in 1947. Both the Netherlands and Turkey debuted new coin series in 1948. So 1945 makes sense there and many European collectors I know use that date as the cutoff as well. NGC defines modern for World as 1970 and later, but they are the only ones I've heard of that use that date.

 

A standardization of this would make things easier, but I don't think it would ever be a feasible thing to do with all the different coins in the world.

 

~Tom

 

Never considered 1945, but I can completely get why that could be a cut off date with respect to Germany.

 

However if a set date is used for the division and does not have the ability to slide forward in time at some point coins minted after the cut off date could be 200 years old and still considered modern. Which sounds silly to me.

 

At some point I am guessing we may not even have a physical currency, it will all be digital credit and debits moving around in the cloud. Heck, I would argue that 70% or better of the worlds money supply moves only digitally now with no physical exchange ever taking place.

 

 

Kmag......you make a great point! Maybe we should start approaching this problem in a manner like geologic time periods like the Triassic, Jurassic, Cretaceous etc........just name different eras for coins to fit in rather than modern vs. classic and only that. Just a thought, but it makes sense to me!

 

~Tom

[World Colonial]

I believe non-US collectors make a distinction between silver and base metal coinage but don't believe they think in terms of modern vs. classic. I believe it is a US centric concept.

 

As you stated, how this is applied is country specific. In South Africa, the distinction is between ZAR and Union (their "classics") and RSA. RSA in 1961 marks the changeover to decimalization but silver was discontinued in 1965. The RSA silver is more popular but none of these coins are widely collected (even by local standards) above nominal prices.