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Toned Kennedys....

Started by jom,

23 posts in this topic

jom

jom

Posted
Posted

I wanted to show some Kennedy halves I've owned for years that I recently submitted to PCGS. As a kid I collected coins (early 70s) but I lost interest. Then in 1992 I got back into it and the first coins I started to collect were Ikes and Kennedys. I read an article in The Numismatist about Kennedys and it mentioned a dealer in North Carolina (or Virginia...I don't recall exactly) named Jim Barlow (The Kennedy Center). I eventually contacted him and bought a bunch of raw pieces for my Dansco holder. Over the years many of these coins toned up nicely (IMO) and I always wondered whether the TPGs would find these acceptable. So here are the ones I sent in.

 

Note: Most of the coins were in the holder from about 1993 until 2005 or so. One of the 82P Kennedys I took out in 1999 or so as it was pretty "active" color wise. Then I made the mistake of putting it back in about 4 years later. The results are shown in the two photos. I took it out again with the others in 2005 or so. I should have kept it out as it doesn't look as good as it used to. There is one other coin (71P) that toned up as well but the rest of the coins really did nothing tone-wise. Neither has any of my Ikes in their Dansco. It's all pretty random from what I can tell.

 

50c-73p_zps970d96c6.jpg

 

These are the same coin. The first photo was taken in 2002 or so. The second about two years ago. The effects are from about three years after being put back in the Dansco. A mistake IMO.

50c-82p_zps52bfed19.jpg

50c-82p_zps66e74dd2.jpg

Another 82P

50c-82p_A_zps84b99bde.jpg

50c-83p_A_zpsb95519da.jpg

50c-83p_zpse9f9781d.jpg

50c-84d_zpsdaac35c7.jpg

50c-86d_zps3f472a30.jpg

 

So...guess the grades (or rejections) for fun! Do you think PCGS failed any of these for not being MA?

 

jom

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jpcienkus

jpcienkus

Posted
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Very interesting OP. The 82 P is an interesting case of when to pull it and stop the toning.

 

Very nice collection. I'm not a Kennedy expert at all, but they all look NT/MA to me.

 

Where did you store these? Was the temp. a little warmer? Seems like the 82 P changed a lot once you put it back in the album.

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jom

jom

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No guess the grades? C'mon!

 

Anyway, jp, the temp is probably typical CA whether. I could see that in FL, for example, the humidity can be high but not here generally. However, I didn't use any kind of dehumidifier either...

 

jom

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jpcienkus

jpcienkus

Posted
Posted
No guess the grades? C'mon!

 

Anyway, jp, the temp is probably typical CA whether. I could see that in FL, for example, the humidity can be high but not here generally. However, I didn't use any kind of dehumidifier either...

 

jom

 

Jom,

 

Thanks for the response. I wasn't accusing and if it came across that way I apologize. I am trying an experiment on an ASE. I threw it in a container with some match sticks. So far, no toning change. It's been at room temp the whole time. May need to add some heat.

 

The experiment is for me only. I don't plan to do anything with the coin but gain an understanding.

 

I don't know this series so any attempt at a GTG would be a wild arse guess.

 

Joe

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jom

jom

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Thanks for the response. I wasn't accusing and if it came across that way I apologize.

 

Nope...not in the least.

 

jom

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leeg

leeg

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Hey Jom,

I like the 73 as MA.

 

The 82's in the first pick not so much.

 

The rest look MA to me.

 

You asked for grades:

 

First 82 - 64

 

83 - 64

 

83 - 65

 

84 - 65

 

86 - 66

 

Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

 

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jom

jom

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted
Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

You made a good choice. PCGS is much more lenient on modern toners than NGC.

 

Last year I sent a submission with similar toning as yours to NGC (all coins were picked by me from various Dansco Albums) and all 13 coins were rejected as AT. All 13 coins then graded at PCGS. NGC graders sometimes get suspect when all the coins have same look (as I was told by NGC).

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

Regardless of your location, In my opinion, you made the right decision by sending them where you did... In the last 3 months or so, I have graded a handful of these modern toned Kennedys.... the ones I sent to PCGS were graded.. the ones I sent to NGC were "details"... these were coins from the same exact album as the others that went to PCGS, they had very similar toning, which is/was nearly identical to yours here by the way, but anyways, after I got the details coins back from our hosts here, I cracked em and sent to PCGS and they all graded... We know it is cyclical, and Ebs and flows... I have no problem with NGC being a little reluctant to put colored coins into holders.... Its weird because I almost feel like when it comes to modern toners, NGC wont slab it period, and then on the other hand, you got Pcgs putting the most ridiculous, unbelievable toners in holders no probs.... It is puzzling for sure. It is good reasoning as to why all the individual collectors out there should be doing their homework, and buying with their own eye, versus what a label says something is or isn't... those labels are "opinions" period end...

 

Awesome coins. I think you will be fine on all of them, as far as grades...

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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As far as grades, I wouldn't be surprised with MS65's on all but one or two that 66 out of the bunch.... I am looking forward to an update though, so when you get the grades, let us know how it went.... a MS67 would be awesome, although I do not see it happening, even if one was deserving of it...

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leeg

leeg

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

Since I got banned across the street, I guess I don't feel its right to talk PCGS submissions on the NGC Coin Forum.

 

I do buy PCGS coins, just no submissions to PCGS because they are not getting any money from me. I'm a small fish, but it does make me feel better. :)

 

Of course you're free to do whatever you wish. :)

 

 

 

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

Since I got banned across the street, I guess I don't feel its right to talk PCGS submissions on the NGC Coin Forum.

 

I do buy PCGS coins, just no submissions to PCGS because they are not getting any money from me. I'm a small fish, but it does make me feel better. :)

 

Of course you're free to do whatever you wish. :)

 

 

 

I get the impression that you got banned ATS for discussing NGC submissions??? Is that correct?

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jom

jom

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

Since I got banned across the street, I guess I don't feel its right to talk PCGS submissions on the NGC Coin Forum.

 

I do buy PCGS coins, just no submissions to PCGS because they are not getting any money from me. I'm a small fish, but it does make me feel better. :)

 

Of course you're free to do whatever you wish. :)

 

 

 

Yeah, I know about the submission/forum thing. However, I suppose my only excuse is that I wanted to relay the story about the halves. I just happened to send them to PCGS.

 

As to the chosen TPG: Toner Guy and I have had this discussion about what TPG will reject what and it's probably all true.

 

I see the point AHFreak makes as well. I find that PCGS lets in the dumbest things like ASE toners for example. On the other hand if NGC rejects coins like mine they are being short-sighted IMO. They really should know the "look" for Dansco album toning. I do...and I'm a dolt so why not them?

 

As to the comment above about grades: I've already got these back last week so I know the grades already.

 

jom

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braddick

braddick

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Beautiful Kennedy halves!

 

I'm hoping the darker blue toned half is an MS66.

 

I'd call the others GEMMY 64's, although the last, the 86-D looks MS67.

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leeg

leeg

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

Since I got banned across the street, I guess I don't feel its right to talk PCGS submissions on the NGC Coin Forum.

 

I do buy PCGS coins, just no submissions to PCGS because they are not getting any money from me. I'm a small fish, but it does make me feel better. :)

 

Of course you're free to do whatever you wish. :)

 

 

 

I get the impression that you got banned ATS for discussing NGC submissions??? Is that correct?

 

No. It was something very minor. It happened when Don first took over at PCGS. Not going to get into specifics.

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leeg

leeg

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Just wondering why you didn't send them to NGC?

 

Somewhat biased I guess. I do live within a few miles of PCGS and I also think their coins sell for more many times. Although, the latter isn't all that important since I'm not going to sell these anytime soon.

 

The reason for the submission in the first place was to use 8 vouchers that were running out in Feb. 2015...so I sent in these halves plus a bust quarter (believe it or not).

 

jom

 

Since I got banned across the street, I guess I don't feel its right to talk PCGS submissions on the NGC Coin Forum.

 

I do buy PCGS coins, just no submissions to PCGS because they are not getting any money from me. I'm a small fish, but it does make me feel better. :)

 

Of course you're free to do whatever you wish. :)

 

 

 

Yeah, I know about the submission/forum thing. However, I suppose my only excuse is that I wanted to relay the story about the halves. I just happened to send them to PCGS.

 

As to the chosen TPG: Toner Guy and I have had this discussion about what TPG will reject what and it's probably all true.

 

I see the point AHFreak makes as well. I find that PCGS lets in the dumbest things like ASE toners for example. On the other hand if NGC rejects coins like mine they are being short-sighted IMO. They really should know the "look" for Dansco album toning. I do...and I'm a dolt so why not them?

 

As to the comment above about grades: I've already got these back last week so I know the grades already.

 

jom

 

Jom it's all good. Not really a big deal.

 

 

How about giving us some grades. :)

 

 

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jom

jom

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OK, here we go with the grades in order from top to bottom:

 

1973-P MS66

1982-P MS64 (changed color)

1982-P MS66

1983-P MS66

1983-P MS65

1984-D MS66

1986-D MS67 (good call Braddick!)

 

I haven't a clue what these are worth anymore. There doesn't seem to be any big jumps due to grade based on Coin Facts. Oh well...I'm not selling anyway...

 

jom

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