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Premium for toned coins??

Started by erwindoc,

27 posts in this topic

erwindoc

erwindoc

Posted
Posted

Been discussing this with another collector and this keeps coming up.

 

How do you determine how much of a premium to pay for toned coins or for even star designated coins? I know all stars aren't created equal and you cant compare toners to toner, so what do you use?

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted

I have actually tracked all public sales of toned * Peace $ for the past 5-10 years or so.

 

As for other * toners ... its a educated guess based on some research and if I dont mind paying the asking price.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

You pay what you are willing to pay. Other collectors do the same. If you want a coin bad enough, you keep bidding until the other guy quits, and that's what you pay.

 

I know that's not really an answer - but that's because there really isn't an answer. There are no rules, there are no guides. Every coin is different - the best you can do is compare it to previous sales that are of similar quality, and even then its only a best guess.

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RWB

RWB

Posted
Posted

Get every dollar you can squeeze out of 'em -- before the fad changes to something equally uncontrollable.

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erwindoc

erwindoc

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here is a real life example.

 

Auction trends for regular, untoned coin sells for $50 at MS64, $130 at MS65, $240 for MS66 and $800-1200 for MS67

 

I find a stellar toned MS64* that I really like. Seller says, "make me an offer". What would you offer?

 

As requested: here is the coin in question....

 

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Here is a real life example.

 

Auction trends for regular, untoned coin sells for $50 at MS64, $130 at MS65, $240 for MS66 and $800-1200 for MS67

 

I find a stellar toned MS64* that I really like. Seller says, "make me an offer". What would you offer?

 

There is no way to provide a meaningful answer without knowing what the coin looks like.

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted
Here is a real life example.

 

Auction trends for regular, untoned coin sells for $50 at MS64, $130 at MS65, $240 for MS66 and $800-1200 for MS67

 

I find a stellar toned MS64* that I really like. Seller says, "make me an offer". What would you offer?

 

Not all stars are created equal - not by a long shot.

 

Based on your scenario, I would say somewhere between $45 and $500.

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

Tell me why the most common Morgan in MS65 sold for $4814 in the GC auction? (p.11 current Coin World). If you ran the certification number through the auctions that coin has appeared in why suddenly was it worth moon money?

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted
Added photos, see above

 

Which would you rather have, an ordinary looking 65 or a 64 that looks like that? If the latter is an easy choice, then the coin is probably worth at least 65 money. Next, which would you rather have, an ordinary looking 66 or a 64 coin that looks like that? And so on...

 

Other factors to consider are how wild the color is and how unusual is it for that type of coin.

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted
It's like pornography... you know it when you see it.

 

But do we really? I knew an elderly conservative couple for whom the bathing suit models were "smut". For others you have to see the soft underbelly in all its lurid details.

 

A coin has to be pretty spectacular to attract multiples of its GS price. And even then the photos have to be top notch as well as the promotions.

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AHFreak

AHFreak

Posted
Posted

Very difficult question to answer.... For me, it is going to come down to a case by case basis, with no way of establishing a set value of a certain coin, in certain grade, with certain color... those different factors will vary so much, that I personally do not think it would even be possible to establish a general price guide, or whatever.

 

 

I was just thinking about it though, and I thought I would share....

 

I know of a 1963 Franklin half dollar, it is in a PCGS holder, the grade, get this.... AU58? -how much could that be worth right???

 

Well this coin has the most unreal, amazing, nuclear reaction neon green toned reverse that I have ever seen on a silver coin.... (it is the reverse that is toned, with none on the obverse)..... This coin is the type of toning where its almost as if it is lit up from the inside, its own light source....

 

I know for sure I would happily drop $500 on it right this second, and if that wasn't enough, and I needed more to secure it, I am not quite sure how high I would go, but I would go higher... without question... I am sure there have to be these types of coins for many many buyers out there, and all it takes is a couple buyers like this on a coin that makes them feel the same way this one does to send any given coin straight to the moon, regardless of how ridiculous it is...

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SkyMan

SkyMan

Posted
Posted
It's like pornography... you know it when you see it.

 

But do we really? I knew an elderly conservative couple for whom the bathing suit models were "smut". For others you have to see the soft underbelly in all its lurid details...

 

EXACTLY!!! EACH person has to decide what a toned coin is worth. That was the whole point of my statement. YOU know it when YOU see it.

 

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

But seriously, these kinds of prices?

 

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/207669/1881-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-65-OGH-1st-Gen-Toned

 

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/232291/1881-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-65-PL-OGH-1st-Gen-Toned

 

What will be the resale value? Isn't this a case of lightning striking once?

 

 

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millrat41-migration

millrat41-migration

Posted
Posted

Lightning? Maybe. Although that is out of my league, I am not surprised. My toned Morgans really light up my face when they are visiting from the bank. That, for me, is what this hobby is all about. Personally, I would rather have a stunningly toned common date Morgan for $5000 than a better date for the same $5000.

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e1cnr

e1cnr

Posted
Posted

 

Are you jealous, mad, curious, or something else?

 

An absolute auction has at least 2 bidders to get to 'sold' price, this was not a lightning strike occurrence. Resale value would depend on where, when, and how sold. If a dealer bought these for resale now, they surely felt a buyer could be found for even more.

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Nutmeg Coin

Nutmeg Coin

Posted
Posted

 

Are you jealous, mad, curious, or something else?

 

An absolute auction has at least 2 bidders to get to 'sold' price, this was not a lightning strike occurrence. Resale value would depend on where, when, and how sold. If a dealer bought these for resale now, they surely felt a buyer could be found for even more.

 

Huh?

 

If you look at most of the GC results they are within the GS or Numismedia pricing. Atypically you get some outsized results for unusual coins.

 

Personally I like coins that can be easily technically analyzed where no one gets cheated. There are hundreds if not thousands of Morgan dollars with superlative toning. Same thing for all the other series. So the question becomes how much money and collectors are there for any given certified coin? The more moon money gets sunk into coins that really aren't rare and objectively if you had experts in comparable fields assessing the phenomenon of unreasonable premiums being paid for inventory of which there is no shortage, what would they say? How would an art or cultural critic regard the phenomenon of this type of money being paid for some toning? It looks like a bubble phenomenon.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

 

Are you jealous, mad, curious, or something else?

 

An absolute auction has at least 2 bidders to get to 'sold' price, this was not a lightning strike occurrence. Resale value would depend on where, when, and how sold. If a dealer bought these for resale now, they surely felt a buyer could be found for even more.

 

Huh?

 

If you look at most of the GC results they are within the GS or Numismedia pricing. Atypically you get some outsized results for unusual coins.

 

Personally I like coins that can be easily technically analyzed where no one gets cheated. There are hundreds if not thousands of Morgan dollars with superlative toning. Same thing for all the other series. So the question becomes how much money and collectors are there for any given certified coin? The more moon money gets sunk into coins that really aren't rare and objectively if you had experts in comparable fields assessing the phenomenon of unreasonable premiums being paid for inventory of which there is no shortage, what would they say? How would an art or cultural critic regard the phenomenon of this type of money being paid for some toning? It looks like a bubble phenomenon.

 

You used the expression "for inventory of which there is no shortage". But relative to the number (and buying appetite of collectors) there is a shortage of wildly toned Morgan Dollars.

 

And just because coins bring prices that you don't understand doesn't mean the premiums are "unreasonable" or that someone is "cheated". You appear to have reached a number of conclusions which aren't necessarily correct.

 

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Eric Hazen

Eric Hazen

Posted
Posted

Toned coins are fun, they liven up a collection. Like everyone else has pointed out there is no fixed price on a toned coin and it is based on the specific coin, the colors, issue type, grade and the pattern.

 

There are several people around the boards that can give you a price range a coin should fall within. Find someone you trust and PM the link. TonerGuy, SkyMan, DimeFreak, and KryptoniteComics have great reputations of the board and could help. Several others that I haven't listed are also equally capable. You'll learn like the rest of us at the auction house what sells for what.

 

Good luck :-)

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mommam17

mommam17

Posted
Posted

I collect mostly toned coins. The 2 silver dollars from Great Collections are great looking coins. Maybe they are well worth it, but they are not for me. I would rather have 10 nicely toned coins than 1 of those.

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted
TonerGuy, SkyMan, DimeFreak, and KryptoniteComics have great reputations of the board and could help. Several others that I haven't listed are also equally capable.

 

Thank you but I think you are just as capable as anyone you listed and more capable than I. I specialize in toned Peace $ and moderns. I can help with their evaluation and pricing but if its a Morgan - Im clueless as to value. I just dont know the market. And toned Morgans can range from as little as $75.00 to as much as $7500+. Its confusing to me as well. lol.

 

 

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Posted
Get every dollar you can squeeze out of 'em -- before the fad changes to something equally uncontrollable.

While the gravy's flowing you want to be right there with your kisser under the faucet. ;)

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dimefreak

dimefreak

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Posted

I've single handedly pushed the auctions price over $1k and lost. Meaning had I not seen that coin it would have sold for over $1k less. When I do that and still lose I feel bad. When it happends to me and I win, I wished that other guy never see the auction. Point is certain auction firms generate more exposure than others. If your going to buy from heritage and when its time to sell you try to sell it yourself on eBay than you will probably lose money. If you mine eBay and find a Monster that had bad pictures, low feedback, or horrible description and then sell it on Heritage you will likely make money. Monster Morgans are not "rare" coins that sell themselves. They are coins that people don't want to live without and the key is making at least two people fall madly in love with it when its time to sell. Doing your homework is your best defense at getting burnt. True auctions are usually safe bets when buying. If your going to buy a monster for monster pricing from a dealer you better know what your doing.

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