PCGS grades Sandpaper "Coin" MS 64...

[TonerGuy]

Now I have seen it all.... PCGS graded a sanding disc MS64 -

 

How can you call a non-coin Mint State ?

 

EBay Auction...

 

I thought the AT ASEs they were grading were bad enough but now PCGS is adding numerical grades to sandpaper. Perhaps encapsulating sandpaper because in some strange way this might be considered a mint error (I dont but Im not an error guy) but to assign a grade to an industrial device is pretty funny.

 

 

[A.Phillips]

Struck on sandpaper disc as MS64 condition... non-sense.. PCGS should've throw it in the trash bin.

[Coindude]

I saw that ats and thought it was over the top. Neat error I guess but I can't see putting a numerical grade on the thing. Apparently Fred Weinberg used to own it which lays credence to it being an actual error.

[MarkFeld]

Struck on sandpaper d

 

Disc as MS64 condition... non-sense.. PCGS should've throw it in the trash bin.

 

It's one thing to disagree with the item being graded. But the rest of your post seems way overboard and in poor taste. Not to mention, it wasn't the property of PCGS to do with as you suggested.

[BillJones]

Putting a grade on an error is always controversial. At any rate the more important thing is the nature of the error. The grade is secondary unless the item has been damaged or mutilated.

[coinman_23885]

It is an interesting piece, but not something that I would be interested in buying (especially at that price level).

 

Edited to correct error.

[Walkerfan]

I don't think it should have red'd a numerical grade. Would I consider it an 'error COIN'?? No---Maybe a 'mint produced error' but NOT a coin. Would I ever be interested in it?? Not in a million years and certainly not at that price level. If I were PCGS; I would kindly return it to it's owner. Alas, they chose to grade it. Their call not mine...... :shrug:

[A.Phillips]

Struck on sandpaper d

 

Disc as MS64 condition... non-sense.. PCGS should've throw it in the trash bin.

 

It's one thing to disagree with the item being graded. But the rest of your post seems way overboard and in poor taste. Not to mention, it wasn't the property of PCGS to do with as you suggested.

 

I frequently couldn't thinking of anything right what I want to say. I keep forgetting that the grading service has to do what the customer asked for. So I mean PCGS should put it in "dead bag" and return it to owner. I don't know how the owner got it in hand that is almost impossible for a sandpaper disc gets through to the people outside of the US Mint building.

[A.Phillips]

Speaking of the property of owner's coins. I am wondering if NGC or PCGS grading service received the owner's coins and identified one of coins as a counterfeit coin, do they keep it and send it to US secret service or return it to the owner?

[BillJones]

It goes back to the owner from what I know.

 

Look at it this way. What if it turns out to real after all? If gets sent to the Secret Service and gets tied up for months or years, the owner would the basis for a court action

[RWB]

Egro: "Questionable authenticity" - return to submitter; keep hefty fee; extra toppings on pizza.

[TonerGuy]

It is an interesting coin, but not something that I would be interested in buying (especially at that price level).

 

Its not a coin. Its sandpaper. Just because it has an imprint on it doesnt make it a coin.

 

And at that price Dan Carr should start sticking sanding discs into his dies and selling them as well.

 

The funny thing is how strong the cool-aid is over there. No one in the thread ATS even really questioned PCGS's decision to grade sandpaper.

 

Seriously I have a canvas mint bag where they misspelled "Dollars." Should I send it into PCGS and see if they will grade the canvas ? Its pretty pristine. It might be MS67.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

It is an interesting coin, but not something that I would be interested in buying (especially at that price level).

 

Its not a coin. Its sandpaper. Just because it has an imprint on it doesnt make it a coin.

 

You're absolutely right. I just saw the grayish obverse and silver retained on the label and in a quick glance, I jumped to conclusions. I should have said "piece" instead of coin.

[CaptHenway]

If a washer falls off of the coin press and gets struck between the dies, that is certifiable and probably gradable based upon what happened to it after the strike.

 

As to the sandpaper disc, it is or was a tool used at the Mint to refinish dies and give them a finely textured surface. As I said ATS, when the dies got a bit too worn and shiny, sort of like the seat of my blue serge pants, the press operator would place a sandpaper disc face down on the lower die, place a planchet atop that, and place another sandpaper disc atop the planchet, face up. The press would cycle and strike the sand-wich and the sandpaper grit would lightly texture the steel dies.

 

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

[TonerGuy]

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

I dont have a huge issue with it being certified however graded... - Please continue and explain how its an MS64 as compared to a 63 or 65. And do you think it will CAC ?

[MarkFeld]

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

I dont have a huge issue with it being certified however graded... - Please continue and explain how its an MS64 as compared to a 63 or 65. And do you think it will CAC ?

 

While I'm not sure your question was sincere...Simply put, it could be an MS64 as compared to a 63 or a 65, based on surface preservation/flaws. For all we know, the grading might be easier than it is for a regular coin, as there might be fewer variables to consider.

[Conder101]

CaptHenway explains how something like this was created. As for how it got out, I first saw one of these back in 87, bu that one was still attached to the silver eagle. Those pieces used for dressing the dies were supposed to be destroyed but a couple of them have gotten out with the regular eagles. As I said the first one I saw was still attached to the coin but it could just as easily have fallen off after the coins were shipped.

[brg5658]

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

I dont have a huge issue with it being certified however graded... - Please continue and explain how its an MS64 as compared to a 63 or 65. And do you think it will CAC ?

 

While I'm not sure your question was sincere...Simply put, it could be an MS64 as compared to a 63 or a 65, based on surface preservation/flaws. For all we know, the grading might be easier than it is for a regular coin, as there might be fewer variables to consider.

 

I think his point is that they are just making it up as they go. What set of "standards" are they using to deem a piece of sand paper is an MS64? Slabbing something like this to protect it is one thing. Assigning it a numerical grade is ridiculous at best.

[TonerGuy]

While I'm not sure your question was sincere...Simply put, it could be an MS64 as compared to a 63 or a 65, based on surface preservation/flaws. For all we know, the grading might be easier than it is for a regular coin, as there might be fewer variables to consider.

 

It was obviously not sincere.

 

Its one thing for PCGS to take a pay-off to grade a sandpaper disc or perhaps a % cut of its value. At least they got paid to do so. Its something else to defend them assigning a numerical grade to it.

[messydesk]

Another one of these (different serial number) turned up back in May and there was a thread ATS about it. I mentioned at the time that the grade, while meaningless, was likely just something to make a database happy. On the other hand, you could apply standards of luster (average for sandpaper), eye appeal (odd), surface preservation (pristine), and strike (good, but not great) and arrive at MS64 as a logical choice. If it had been a sandpaper disk that had acquired bruised edges, light folds, or handling marks, then an AU grade would be appropriate. Perhaps it was graded similarly to how currency would be graded.

 

The funny thing is how strong the cool-aid is over there. No one in the thread ATS even really questioned PCGS's decision to grade sandpaper.

Actually, in the earlier thread, there was considerable consternation over the grading aspect of one of these. Constantly hurling "Kool Aid®" insults ATS is not only tiresome and unproductive, but it speaks volumes to what's in your coffee mug.

[coinman_23885]

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

I dont have a huge issue with it being certified however graded... - Please continue and explain how its an MS64 as compared to a 63 or 65. And do you think it will CAC ?

 

Even though I realize this is sarcasm, for those who might wonder, CAC told me that they will not review any coin errors when they refused to accept my broadstruck Barber Dime, clipped rim Indian Head Cent, and medal alignment Indian Head Cent. And even if they did, the coin is a modern, which would prevent CAC from reviewing it anyway.

[brg5658]

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

I dont have a huge issue with it being certified however graded... - Please continue and explain how its an MS64 as compared to a 63 or 65. And do you think it will CAC ?

 

Even though I realize this is sarcasm, for those who might wonder, CAC told me that they will not review any coin errors when they refused to accept my broadstruck Barber Dime, clipped rim Indian Head Cent, and medal alignment Indian Head Cent. And even if they did, the coin is a modern, which would prevent CAC from reviewing it anyway.

 

It's not a coin.

[coinman_23885]

It's not a coin.

 

I know. I can't believe I made the same mistake twice! The intent is still the same, replacing coin with "piece."

 

 

[messydesk]

... for those who might wonder, CAC told me that they will not review any coin errors ...

That is because they have no interest in participating in a market for errors.

[johnny9434]

happy birthday as well walker. all the best

[TonerGuy]

Constantly hurling "Kool Aid®" insults ATS is not only tiresome and unproductive, but it speaks volumes to what's in your coffee mug.

 

While I am not anti-PCGS I dont personally think that PCGS is heads and shoulders above NGC in what I have seen in respect to my area of interest. I cannot speak to their skill levels outside that since I have no experience. I think NGC and PCGS and their respective grading is about equal. I choose NGC over PCGS because of their level of customer service which I found outstanding compared to PCGS which I found lacking.

 

However, you have to admit that there's is a certain blindness to some ATS that doesnt exist here. If you find the nomenclature "KoolAid" insulting well Im sorry but its fits quite well over there.

[rrantique]

I don't think it should have red'd a numerical grade. Would I consider it an 'error COIN'?? No---Maybe a 'mint produced error' but NOT a coin. Would I ever be interested in it?? Not in a million years and certainly not at that price level. If I were PCGS; I would kindly return it to it's owner. Alas, they chose to grade it. Their call not mine...... :shrug:

 

Happy Birthday Walkerfan. I would call the piece "True Grit"

[RWB]

If it's a legitimate struck fragment, then the plastic is a good way to protect it. Doesn't matter whose plastic, but the authentication is very important.

[$ilverHawk]

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

I dont have a huge issue with it being certified however graded... - Please continue and explain how its an MS64 as compared to a 63 or 65. And do you think it will CAC ?

 

While I'm not sure your question was sincere...Simply put, it could be an MS64 as compared to a 63 or a 65, based on surface preservation/flaws. For all we know, the grading might be easier than it is for a regular coin, as there might be fewer variables to consider.

 

Mark, you have offered various insights to me as well as other posters when you have found issues regrading grading of many different coins. I have learned quite a lot from your opinions.

 

However, I don't understand your defense of what most generously be called this small bit of exonumia.

 

Please explain why you regard the OPs example as a coin.

 

Carl

[$ilverHawk]

If a washer falls off of the coin press and gets struck between the dies, that is certifiable and probably gradable based upon what happened to it after the strike.

 

As to the sandpaper disc, it is or was a tool used at the Mint to refinish dies and give them a finely textured surface. As I said ATS, when the dies got a bit too worn and shiny, sort of like the seat of my blue serge pants, the press operator would place a sandpaper disc face down on the lower die, place a planchet atop that, and place another sandpaper disc atop the planchet, face up. The press would cycle and strike the sand-wich and the sandpaper grit would lightly texture the steel dies.

 

Obviously it was not intended to get out, but it did. As a U.S. Mint-struck item it is collectible and certifiable. If you don't like it, don't buy it!

 

Don't care about the possible explanation of how a piece of sandpaper was embossed. Probably accurate. That is all it is, an embossed piece of sandpaper. Exactly who says a US mint-struck piece of sandpaper is collectible and certifiable?? Please don't tell me that any exonumia product of the US mint has a claim to being a minted coin. No metal, no obverse and reverse, just an impression of an obverse image on sandpaper. Think about your argument.

 

Carl

 

 

"As a U. S. Mint-struck item it is collectible. If you don't like it don't buy it!" Says who???

 

Carl