NGC black insert slabs (NGC 1) - approximate value?

[yonico]

So this question is for the slab specialists and collectors as one..

 

What, approximately, is the value of the NGC 1 black holder?

 

Assume that the coin inside is a low value coin ($100>), and does not affect the value. Also assume that the slab is in good condition (might have light scratches and/or scuffs, but no cracks or deep chips in the plastic).

 

What would be a price collectors would be willing to pay RIGHT AWAY, with no regard to the coin in the holder?

[coinman_23885]

There is a poster on the PCGS Forums, Oreville, who has had a standing off out to buy all NGC black slabs for $2,300, which I feel is fair. Some in the past have sold for a bit more. If you inquiring about the specific piece I think you are that sold recently, I think the coin sold for a fair price if you collect slabs.

[yonico]

Kenny,

 

About a year ago (i think it was march or april of 13'), a black slab sold on GreatCollections for $4,400 - ($4,000 + BP). The coin inside was a $150 coin at best (35-S San Diego 50c MS65). Why did it bring so much, in your opinion?

 

Edited to add: the auction had 5 unique bidders at the $3,000+ level

[bsshog40]

There is a post ats from great collections also with an 1881 s Morgan in a black slab that sold for $2365 (thats with BP).

[yonico]

There is a post ats from great collections also with an 1881 s Morgan in a black slab that sold for $2365 (thats with BP).

 

Yeah, this one just sold tonight. why do you think it sold for so little, comparing to the one from last year?

 

Btw, can you please link to that post ATS? I don't see it..

Or maybe the moderators there got it already

[coinman_23885]

There is a post ats from great collections also with an 1881 s Morgan in a black slab that sold for $2365 (thats with BP).

 

Yeah, this one just sold tonight. why do you think it sold for so little, comparing to the one from last year?

 

I said what I said, because I am aware of other transactions in the $2k-$3k range, including an Iowa Centennial Half Dollar that sold for $2,400 plus juice, also at Great Collections, linked below. I was also answering your question, of what you could sell this for now to a collector. I know of a poster ATS, who is paying $2300 each. There could be a number of reasons why the San Diego could have sold for much more: 1) perhaps the bidders, whether acting reasonably or not, felt the plastic was in better shape (although both look fine to me); 2) the price is not reproducible and was the result of the bidding war; 3) there was reduced demand or number of bidders (I know of one major slab collector who bowed out who already had one and it only takes two to set a price), and 4) maybe the slab collecting market, like many areas of the coin market, is soft.

 

For whatever it is worth, I think the new owner did fine and that the price was fair, but I wouldn't expect the new owner to be able to sell it for a 150-200% profit either.

 

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/120171/1946-Iowa-Centennial-Half-Dollar-NGC-MS-65-Vintage-Black-NGC-Old-Holder

 

Edited: The two GC pieces (the San Diego you reference) and the Iowa I posted above both sold relatively close. It could be that the emergence of the subsequent pieces was either unknown or the close sales over saturated the market too much to sustain the price level of $4k+.

[coinman_23885]

There is a post ats from great collections also with an 1881 s Morgan in a black slab that sold for $2365 (thats with BP).

 

That's the piece I was referencing above.

[coinman_23885]

Btw, can you please link to that post ATS? I don't see it..

Or maybe the moderators there got it already

 

Here is Oreville's thread: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=286356.

 

Also, for whatever it is worth, Oreville is a true slab expert, another reason why I would certainly trust his listing as much as any price guide or isolated auction record.

[dimefreak]

It has to do with the type of coin inside. Morgans are likely the most common... Commems prolly not

[James_OldeTowne]

I think you start at $2500 and go from there.

[yonico]

Thanks! Your answer was more than satisfactory, I was just trying to understand the difference in price, that's all. Not challenging your reasoning.

 

I think there was something more to it than the reasons listed, although they do make sense..

The reason being:

 

1. Plastic was in better shape - couldn't see anything in the pics of both auctions to support it or even make me speculate.

2. Price was just a result of bidders war - I thought it might have been, then I looked closely and saw that 5 different bidders were active in the $3,000+ levels.. Out of the 11 bidders, I would expect less than 5 to still be in the game after it passed $3,200...

 

And 4. The market can be bullish or bearish, but it usually takes more than that to make the price of virtually the same item to jump between $2,300 and $4,400..in one year.

 

Now reduced number of bidders today (father's day) might be correct, because I got 5 beautiful great deal on both GC and eBay tonight (2 of them, at actually 48%-60% of my max bid I placed!), so maybe.. Maybe people were out on picnics/dinners or something...

 

By the way, I'm not saying this Morgan one is worth $4,000, and not trying to make myself feel better with the purchase.. Just simply trying to understand what made the price jump that high then drop so low.

 

Thanks for the detailed comments!

[yonico]

Btw, can you please link to that post ATS? I don't see it..

Or maybe the moderators there got it already

 

Here is Oreville's thread: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=286356.

 

Also, for whatever it is worth, Oreville is a true slab expert, another reason why I would certainly trust his listing as much as any price guide or isolated auction record.

 

Sorry, was asking about the post bobby mentioned that was about the piece that sold tonight..

 

I saw oreville's post before and I know he's an expert on slabs, if I could buy a slab at his buy price or a bit under it, I feel like I'm doing ok

[yonico]

It has to do with the type of coin inside. Morgans are likely the most common... Commems prolly not

 

Last I've seen (in the census they had listed ATS and updated last year), out of the 29 documented black slabs, there were 9 Morgans and 6 commem's.

 

So by numbers of coins produced, looks like Morgans are AT LEAST as scarce in these holders as commem's are...

[coinman_23885]

By the way, I'm not saying this Morgan one is worth $4,000, and not trying to make myself feel better with the purchase.. Just simply trying to understand what made the price jump that high then drop so low.

 

You missed the part below, which I think could also factor in as well as what the others are saying about the coin in the slab (sometimes certain types sell for premiums, etc.).

 

In any event, I think you did fine, and if you desire to flip it for a profit, it is feasible. However, since you collect sample slabs (and probably some non-sample slab material too), I would keep it personally. As you are aware, the pieces are hard to fine and are pretty neat. Even if you desire to flip it, this is the type of item that is better served by time and promotion (much like monster toned coins - it can take time to achieve the maximum price; I can tell you that from experience).

 

 

Edited: The two GC pieces (the San Diego you reference) and the Iowa I posted above both sold relatively close. It could be that the emergence of the subsequent pieces was either unknown or the close sales over saturated the market too much to sustain the price level of $4k+.

 

 

P.S. Congratulations!

[yonico]

Yeah, I posted my reply before I read this part you added on.

 

Thanks for the advice, I'm definitely going to keep it for now. In just happy I could find one at a price that won't break the bank .

 

By the way, one with a Morgan dollar is much more desirable (to me) than one with a commem.. Now if only I could get one with a gold coin in it

[coinman_23885]

By the way, one with a Morgan dollar is much more desirable (to me) than one with a commem.. Now if only I could get one with a gold coin in it

 

I would love to find/see one with a high grade Saint or Liberty Head Double Eagle in it for sure!

[e1cnr]

the market is kind of thin - how many people in the world do think are willing to spend 2-3K for a black piece of plastic?

[coinman_23885]

the market is kind of thin - how many people in the world do think are willing to spend 2-3K for a black piece of plastic?

 

It depends. There are a number of people who would pay $2k-$3k more for a coin in a PCGS holder than the identical coin in a NGC holder, so I think there are a good number of plastic collectors. But I do agree with your underlying premise.

[PerryHall]

the market is kind of thin - how many people in the world do think are willing to spend 2-3K for a black piece of plastic?

 

Apparently, quite a few. It comes down to supply and demand. The supply of these first generation NGC slabs is extremely small and the demand is high.

[PerryHall]

By the way, one with a Morgan dollar is much more desirable (to me) than one with a commem.. Now if only I could get one with a gold coin in it

 

I would love to find/see one with a high grade Saint or Liberty Head Double Eagle in it for sure!

 

I have a common date Saint in a MS62 NGC first generation slab which I paid $3000 for about five years ago. It looks like a high end 63 and I've seen worse in 64 slabs. I don't doubt that it would get a gold CAC sticker if submitted but the slab is flawless and I don't want to risk submitting it. The premiums for these collectable slabs seem to drop as the value of the coins increase. How much of a premium would a black first generation NGC slab add to a million dollar coin?

[Conder101]

I've seen a couple sales at a $2K+ premium, Three at a $3K premium and one with a $4K premium. I think the $4K is excessivie but the high $2K to $3K seems to be close to the going rate.

 

Perry, how about an image of the Saint?

 

(I created a monster with that slab didn't I?)

[brg5658]

the market is kind of thin - how many people in the world do think are willing to spend 2-3K for a black piece of plastic?

 

Apparently, quite a few. It comes down to supply and demand. The supply of these first generation NGC slabs is extremely small and the demand is high.

 

If the supply is extremely small, the demand doesn't have to be all that high to make for silly premiums. If what someone else posted -- (that there are 29 known by an avid tracker of these) -- all it takes are 40-50 people who want one with the income to bid against one another.

 

I don't think I'd call 40-50 slab collectors (or even 200-300) a very "high" demand. Slab collecting (as of now) is a very niche area. Most of us still collect the coins inside the coffins.

[dimefreak]

I would have preferred the blank label pcgs holder shane just sold. But I'm not really a slab collector

[coinman_23885]

How much of a premium would a black first generation NGC slab add to a million dollar coin?

 

That's why I would want a more expensive coin (if I was going to pursue one) as the premium diminishes substantially.