Dipped coins...

[rynegold-migration]

How does NGC treat dipped silver coins? First I guess I should ask if indeed they can tell if they've been dipped in the first place; or do they even care? Back in the 80's when I began collecting, it was a common practice... how about now?

 

regards ,m

 

edit: I guess I should add I'm talking about "e-Z-est" coin cleaner

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Some coins show obvious signs of having been dipped, while others appear not to have been dipped. Still others have appearances which cause expert viewers to be undecided.

 

Both NGC and PCGS have graded a great many dipped coins - some of them at very high grade levels. However, some coins have a too heavily dipped/unnatural appearance and do not receive numerical grades as a result. In other words, it is a matter of degree.

[AHFreak]

You will find this question will stir up quite a bit of thoughts and opinions, they will be from one end of the spectrum to the other... So, learn what you can from what replies you get, but don't expect much, as far as walking away with a straight forward answer to your question.

 

As far as my thoughts, I believe that "dipping" has a place, but a very limited and specific place. Although it can be a useful tool, the best route IMO, is always going to be the route of "not messing with coins in any way". As far as 3rd party graders (NGC and the others), I think there are coins where it is possible to tell when or if its been dipped, and then I think there are coins where (assuming it was done properly) it is not possible to tell for sure whether or not it has been dipped.

 

 

As far as them "caring"... it seems to me we are seeing a "shift" in the overall mindset, I see it as it is becoming more focused on whether or not a coin is MA, (market acceptable) or not "MA". Meaning, if it has been dipped correctly, even if its not hard to tell it has been dipped, that wouldn't necessarily stop it from grading. On the other hand, if a coin is clearly dipped and it wasn't done properly, leaving behind problems, or possible future problems, I believe that can/will prevent said coin from grading... Hard to be exact on this, as it is one of the many questions in which there isn't really a black and white answer... (some will tell you its black and white-those who are on the extreme ends of the spectrums, but it really isn't as simple as black and white). -IMO.

 

 

 

[JJSingleton]

TPGs have holdered dipped coins and will continue to do so. And evidence suggests they often reward the practice because after all, it drives submissions. Although the market has moved to rewarding originality, the TPGs have nothing to gain in doing so as rewarding originality does create additional submissions. You can always dip a coin and resubmit to get rewarded but you cannot make a coin more original.

[johnny9434]

welcome to the forums

[bsshog40]

I agree as there are probably a lot of dipped coins in slabs. Overdipping can take the lustery life right out of a coin and these can be easily identified. I would think the dipping of a coin is mainly to take off old unlikeable toning and still doesn't require a very long dip. Some people go to extremes with dipping and permanently damages the coin. If the toning looks nice to me, then an acetone bath usually takes care of what I worry about.

[rynegold-migration]

Well... thanks for the welcome, and the opinions on this subject. I thought perhaps that dipped coins were so noted on the slab.

 

Now for another question, when I'm going to submit a coin, if I find it a little "dirty" (i.e. it's been handled some by dirty hands, light dust/dirt and so on from sitting uncovered) is it permissible to give it a light few seconds in the ultrasonic? held w/ plastic coated tweezers? I'm in th jewelry trade as well as a dealer in bullion for the last 37 years. I have a ton of coins to go through that I've accumulated for all these years...I consider them part of my retirement to get them graded and sold.

 

Thanks for the tips!

m

[bsshog40]

Well... thanks for the welcome, and the opinions on this subject. I thought perhaps that dipped coins were so noted on the slab.

 

Now for another question, when I'm going to submit a coin, if I find it a little "dirty" (i.e. it's been handled some by dirty hands, light dust/dirt and so on from sitting uncovered) is it permissible to give it a light few seconds in the ultrasonic? held w/ plastic coated tweezers? I'm in th jewelry trade as well as a dealer in bullion for the last 37 years. I have a ton of coins to go through that I've accumulated for all these years...I consider them part of my retirement to get them graded and sold.

 

Thanks for the tips!

m

I've heard of others using an ultrasonic but I don't have any experience with them. I prefer acetone (not the nail polish remover type) to remove any oils, dirt, tape residue, etc.... I will not damage the metal in any way. It is very flammable though, so needs to be used in a very well ventilated area. Just my choice.

[Raisethis2]

 

 

I think the ultrasonic thing is fine however the majority of people today rely upon pure acetone (not the purple tinted acetone for fingernails) and soak the coin in an airtight container for 30 minutes or so. Then rinse with warm tap water thoroughly followed by a dip in distilled water to sanitize the coin. Finally compressed air from a can (keyboard duster) to dry it.

 

Never rub and assume any coin dipped in EZ est will not grade. That stuff just eats away at the surface and should only be used in extreme cases.

[TonerGuy]

Well... thanks for the welcome, and the opinions on this subject. I thought perhaps that dipped coins were so noted on the slab.

 

Thats a great idea.... one which will never see the light of day though.

 

Now for another question, when I'm going to submit a coin, if I find it a little "dirty" (i.e. it's been handled some by dirty hands, light dust/dirt and so on from sitting uncovered) is it permissible to give it a light few seconds in the ultrasonic? held w/ plastic coated tweezers? I'm in th jewelry trade as well as a dealer in bullion for the last 37 years. I have a ton of coins to go through that I've accumulated for all these years...I consider them part of my retirement to get them graded and sold.

 

Thanks for the tips!

m

 

Please keep them "as is" and original. I know the desire to profit is there. We all feel it but there is a mindset that we are just stewards of the coins that we posses while alive and its our duty to take care of them and not "mess" with them for future generations.

 

And if you have any colorfully toned coins, I would be most interested in adding to your retirement fund...

 

Welcome to the boards!

[coinman1794]

 

I think the ultrasonic thing is fine however the majority of people today rely upon pure acetone (not the purple tinted acetone for fingernails) and soak the coin in an airtight container for 30 minutes or so. Then rinse with warm tap water thoroughly followed by a dip in distilled water to sanitize the coin. Finally compressed air from a can (keyboard duster) to dry it.

 

Never rub and assume any coin dipped in EZ est will not grade. That stuff just eats away at the surface and should only be used in extreme cases.

 

Swishing a coin around in acetone will remove contaminants in about 30 seconds, unless it is coated in heavy PVC residue. Leaving a coin in acetone can allow the removed contaminants to reattach to the coin, in some cases.

 

Dipping is an undesirable last resort to the knowledgable numismatist, as there are many safe ways of lightening a coin without using acid dip. However, EZ Est dipped coins are slabbed all the time, and more often result in higher grades than in no-grades.

[RWB]

There are two types of “dipping” that sometimes get confused.

 

The first is using certain chemicals to remove material that is mechanically sitting on the surface: adhesive residue, dirt, rust (on some coins), etc.

 

The second uses different chemicals to alter the surface composition: converting sulfate back to metallic silver, or removing copper oxide.

 

Since there are three basic coinage metals and they were used in various combinations, the choice of what to do and how to do it, is not a simple one. If there is the slightest doubt in your mind, leave it to professionals at NGC.

 

[coinman1794]

"Dipping" is generally used to describe a specific treatment of acid on silver coins.

 

There are many other types of non-invasive cleaning with chemicals that do not affect or eat metal, but rather, eat the contaminants and help preserve or "conserve" coins.

 

Unfortunately, most people assume that "dipping" is the only way to treat a coin. Rather, it should be a last resort, only to be used in extreme circumstances.

[jamesf-migration]

Wow!

I submitted a post of coin I own a few weeks ago and got blasted that it was over dipped and instead of being a ms 65-67 you guys told me au 58 because it looked "over dipped"

How do you tell if a coin is dipped?

 

This thread seems to imply that's it Ok to dip coins

 

So is it OK a dip a coin? I have no idea of how to do it.

These coins I have were collected over fifty years ago... before the internet, so I bought them blind,

They look good to me. I have no idea if they were dipped but some of them look proof like

 

Please give me advise about dipped coins?

1.Tell me if it's ok to dip a coin or if a coin is dips 50 years ago does it make a difference?

2,Does it age after dipping?

3.Why would someone dip a coin?

4.How can you identify a dipped coin?

 

Why would someone did a coin?

Thanks

[bsshog40]

I have used dip to remove some minor spotting on a couple coins. When I use dip, the coin is only dipped for about 2-3 seconds, then rinsed properly. Anything past this can lead to "overdipping" which starts to damage the coin. It strips the coin and starts or completely removes the luster. This can really degrade a coin. Some people will use dip instead of a safer method, such as acetone, to remove dirt, oils, etc...by the time they reach their goal with the coin, the coin is usually damaged. After a coin is dipped with my method, after time the coin can eventually retone and look fairly natural. Once a coin is overdipped, it usually can never overcome the complete stripping that it usually receives. The lost luster may never come back.

[rynegold-migration]

Ok... with these I have little choice but to dip. In the pic are 22 Texas commems found in the wall of an old house being remodeled here in town and they came in to the shop in an old leather coin bag that was literally falling apart. I've dipped some in ezdip and they are coming out really well. I did them in acetone first and some need no more that that. /some I believe are just AU but still a nice find.

 

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3857/14373662103_abf9d0e7c0_c.jpg' alt='14373662103_abf9d0e7c0_c.jpg'>DSC08830 by rynegold, on Flickr[/img]

[MarkFeld]

Why do you feel you have no choice other than to dip them?

[rynegold-migration]

On some, even the acetone doesn't seem to help the luster come through but a 2 or 3 second ezdip does. I think that the tanning chemicals in the leather bag has something to do with how they look.

 

[Coin Trader]

Gee, I hate to see those old commemoratives dipped. That would have been my last option (if employed at all). I'll grant that I've seen a few coins that are so black that no other options exist, but those are rarely encountered.

 

Did you take any 'before' photos of the coins?

[Kurtdog]

I think all Mark's saying is sometimes collectors like to see a little age coming through. On the acetone, it's going to dull the finish, the "skin." If you pay real close attention to the "before" and "after," you'll see it.

[rynegold-migration]

Before and after...

 

 

Quickly cleaned in acetone, then a 2 or 3 sec. dip.

[bsshog40]

Before and after...

 

 

Quickly cleaned in acetone, then a 2 or 3 sec. dip.

I actually liked the gold toning they had before you dipped them.

[MarkFeld]

Before and after...

 

 

Quickly cleaned in acetone, then a 2 or 3 sec. dip.

 

Were you really holding the coin in your hand like that and not by the edges?

 

I liked the before version better.

[Coin Trader]

Rynegold-- Many collectors prefer the artistic 'character' of the golden toning to blazing white surfaces. In terms of value, I would pay more for the 'before' coins that for the 'afters'. If you happen to be a collector who prefers white blazers, I would encourage you to sell or trade your attractively toned coins and purchase equivalent white coins to replace them. In the long run you will come out dollars ahead (assuming equal grades) and you will also preserve the originality of the coins that you will sell or trade.

[rynegold-migration]

I've not dipped all of them.... just half of them. Were you to see them in hand, you would note some do look a lot better now that they've been cleaned some.

[Kurtdog]

Before and after...

 

 

Quickly cleaned in acetone, then a 2 or 3 sec. dip.

Yeah, but that's not how you're going to see it, taking pictures. I said, pay close attention. I'll tell you exactly how you do it. Look at the coin. Keep your eyes on it, then apply a few drops of acetone, and then look at it after the solution evaporates. If you're paying close attention, you'll see how it disturbed the "skin." It's not as lively. And it doesn't come back.

[coinman1794]

I've not dipped all of them.... just half of them. Were you to see them in hand, you would note some do look a lot better now that they've been cleaned some.

 

It does not appear than these coins needed to be dipped in acid, based on your pictures. They actually look nice, as is. However, there are chemicals other than acetone that will dissolve a coins contaminants without stripping a layer of metal off. Most collectors would prefer the original appearance, on these, however.

[coinman1794]

Before and after...

 

 

Quickly cleaned in acetone, then a 2 or 3 sec. dip.

Yeah, but that's not how you're going to see it, taking pictures. I said, pay close attention. I'll tell you exactly how you do it. Look at the coin. Keep your eyes on it, then apply a few drops of acetone, and then look at it after the solution evaporates. If you're paying close attention, you'll see how it disturbed the "skin." It's not as lively. And it doesn't come back.

 

Acetone removes layers of film from the surface, so it definitely does disturb the patina on some level. However, if you are letting it evaporate without rinsing it multiple times in fresh acetone, first, you are removing contamination by dissolving it into the acetone, then you are letting the contamination dry back onto the coin as the acetone evaporates. A properly rinsed coin will show more flash and less haze or dulness than before the rinse.

[coinman1794]

Wow!

I submitted a post of coin I own a few weeks ago and got blasted that it was over dipped and instead of being a ms 65-67 you guys told me au 58 because it looked "over dipped"

How do you tell if a coin is dipped?

 

This thread seems to imply that's it Ok to dip coins

 

So is it OK a dip a coin? I have no idea of how to do it.

These coins I have were collected over fifty years ago... before the internet, so I bought them blind,

They look good to me. I have no idea if they were dipped but some of them look proof like

 

Please give me advise about dipped coins?

1.Tell me if it's ok to dip a coin or if a coin is dips 50 years ago does it make a difference?

2,Does it age after dipping?

3.Why would someone dip a coin?

4.How can you identify a dipped coin?

 

Why would someone did a coin?

Thanks

 

It is not ok to dip a coin. Stripping metal from the surface is not conservation, but rather, abrasive cleaning. The only time I use dip is to remove acid milk spots caused by someone doing a previous dip. Sometimes you can tell a coin was dipped, and sometimes, you cannot, and this is why it is often accepted in the marketplace. Again, there are other ways to make a coin shine. If a coin spends too much time in the acid, it becomes ruined altogether, and this is what is meant by over-dipped.

 

If you have no idea how to dip, you should not be dipping. The minutia being discussed here is really geared toward experienced professionals, and I would not recommend doing it yourself. The old mantra --never clean your coins--should probably be headed for the average collector.

[Kurtdog]

Before and after...

 

Quickly cleaned in acetone, then a 2 or 3 sec. dip.

Yeah, but that's not how you're going to see it, taking pictures. I said, pay close attention. I'll tell you exactly how you do it. Look at the coin. Keep your eyes on it, then apply a few drops of acetone, and then look at it after the solution evaporates. If you're paying close attention, you'll see how it disturbed the "skin." It's not as lively. And it doesn't come back.

Acetone removes layers of film from the surface, so it definitely does disturb the patina on some level. However, if you are letting it evaporate without rinsing it multiple times in fresh acetone, first, you are removing contamination by dissolving it into the acetone, then you are letting the contamination dry back onto the coin as the acetone evaporates. A properly rinsed coin will show more flash and less haze or dulness than before the rinse.

Oh, that's true, and it's a good cautionary point to bring up. You always have to rinse these once they come out of the acetone. I'm just telling him how he sees the effect, as it's pretty easy to miss, sometimes, when you forget exactly what the coin looked like, before the acetone. But, I agree, that's how you use it, properly, you rinse while it's still wet.