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What would you grade this one?

Started by CSdot,

34 posts in this topic

AHFreak

AHFreak

Posted
Posted

assuming that there is no "slight ware" that I cannot really discern in the photos, Id say this coin is a 61-62. If that is slight ware on the high points, AU58...

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FishyOne

FishyOne

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Before I answer, what would be a fair price for a 61, 62 or 63?

 

Trick question since it's the same coin either way? :o

 

61: $2300

62: $2800

63: $4500

 

Prices would be a retail estimate for a problem-free PCGS piece based on your images.

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Well, the last greysheet I have with these prices list MS60 at $375 and MS63 at $950. So a 61 and 62 is going to fall somewhere in between. You can expect a dealer to pay less than greysheet numbers, and in a retail setting, or even an auction setting you will pay more for this coin as long as its a problem free coin, IMO.. but not by too much. These coins are usually found "whizzed" , harshly cleaned, etc.. etc... it is not easy to find them in problem free UNC.

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CSdot

CSdot

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Wow, that a huge difference in price there. $2,300 - $4,500 in one answer, and $375 - $950 in the other.

 

I know one is retail while the other is suppose to be what a dealer would pay, but it really begs the question of how do you find dealer priced coins? With such a wide gulf between the two, it is just a matter of time before someone sells the dealers out and starts offering the public the coins at dealer pricing or at least the midpoint. I heard a story on CNBC about some young whipper snapper who turned the diamond market on its ear by selling to the public at dealer prices on the internet. Supposedly pissed the old guard off to no end.

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Yes, wide variation. I got my numbers right out of the greysheet, while the other guy got his off of PCGS price guide I believe. Dealers will pay based on greysheet, Ive never ever heard a dealer reference the PCGS/NGC price guide when talking deals.

 

On some coins, getting NGC/PCGS price guide numbers is totally possible, while others it is far from even being close to possible... I quickly checked HA, and the highest I saw this coin in MS63 sell for was 2400, which that includes the buyers premium, and for the average seller, who sells with HA, or any auction house, there will be a sellers premium too.. so facter the 17.5% for both, meaning 35% in fees... and even if the buyer pays 2400, the seller only ever sees 1500-1600 ish....

 

There are several viable options for sellers, and often times different series perform one way in one but then very different in another... at different times... and on top of that it seems like its always changing and whatnot as it rolls along...

 

 

Now what does it grade already....?????

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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My last paragraph above wasn't very clear, my point was, for anyone who knows all the ins and outs about the "seated liberty half market" (I do not) they would know exactly where to buy for the cheapest, and exactly where to turn around and sell for the most value...

 

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FishyOne

FishyOne

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Yes, wide variation. I got my numbers right out of the greysheet, while the other guy got his off of PCGS price guide I believe. Dealers will pay based on greysheet, Ive never ever heard a dealer reference the PCGS/NGC price guide when talking deals.

 

On some coins, getting NGC/PCGS price guide numbers is totally possible, while others it is far from even being close to possible... I quickly checked HA, and the highest I saw this coin in MS63 sell for was 2400, which that includes the buyers premium, and for the average seller, who sells with HA, or any auction house, there will be a sellers premium too.. so facter the 17.5% for both, meaning 35% in fees... and even if the buyer pays 2400, the seller only ever sees 1500-1600 ish....

 

There are several viable options for sellers, and often times different series perform one way in one but then very different in another... at different times... and on top of that it seems like its always changing and whatnot as it rolls along...

 

 

Now what does it grade already....?????

 

My numbers came from recent completed auction listings (retail as noted). Does Greysheet really list a MS63 at $950? That's nuts and so low it's less than half of wholesale.

 

This is a Seated Dollar (S$1), not a Half Dollar which must be what you looked up.

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FishyOne

FishyOne

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My last paragraph above wasn't very clear, my point was, for anyone who knows all the ins and outs about the "seated liberty half market" (I do not) they would know exactly where to buy for the cheapest, and exactly where to turn around and sell for the most value...

 

"seated liberty half market'? You posted a pic of an 1859-O Seated Dollar. :(

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yonico

yonico

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Well, the last greysheet I have with these prices list MS60 at $375 and MS63 at $950. So a 61 and 62 is going to fall somewhere in between. You can expect a dealer to pay less than greysheet numbers, and in a retail setting, or even an auction setting you will pay more for this coin as long as its a problem free coin, IMO.. but not by too much. These coins are usually found "whizzed" , harshly cleaned, etc.. etc... it is not easy to find them in problem free UNC.

 

how old is your greysheet..?? hm

 

i'd love to buy some at double these prices

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CSdot

CSdot

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My last paragraph above wasn't very clear, my point was, for anyone who knows all the ins and outs about the "seated liberty half market" (I do not) they would know exactly where to buy for the cheapest, and exactly where to turn around and sell for the most value...

 

"seated liberty half market'? You posted a pic of an 1859-O Seated Dollar. :(

 

Good catch! He must be quoting the wrong coin to be coming up with such a low number. This is a dollar, not a half dollar.

 

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Well, the last greysheet I have with these prices list MS60 at $375 and MS63 at $950. So a 61 and 62 is going to fall somewhere in between. You can expect a dealer to pay less than greysheet numbers, and in a retail setting, or even an auction setting you will pay more for this coin as long as its a problem free coin, IMO.. but not by too much. These coins are usually found "whizzed" , harshly cleaned, etc.. etc... it is not easy to find them in problem free UNC.

 

Those graysheet prices can't be correct, unless your sheet is decades old.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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My last paragraph above wasn't very clear, my point was, for anyone who knows all the ins and outs about the "seated liberty half market" (I do not) they would know exactly where to buy for the cheapest, and exactly where to turn around and sell for the most value...

 

It's not nearly as easy as you make it sound, even for those who know "the ins and outs..."

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Yes, wide variation. I got my numbers right out of the greysheet, while the other guy got his off of PCGS price guide I believe. Dealers will pay based on greysheet, Ive never ever heard a dealer reference the PCGS/NGC price guide when talking deals.

 

On some coins, getting NGC/PCGS price guide numbers is totally possible, while others it is far from even being close to possible... I quickly checked HA, and the highest I saw this coin in MS63 sell for was 2400, which that includes the buyers premium, and for the average seller, who sells with HA, or any auction house, there will be a sellers premium too.. so facter the 17.5% for both, meaning 35% in fees... and even if the buyer pays 2400, the seller only ever sees 1500-1600 ish....

 

There are several viable options for sellers, and often times different series perform one way in one but then very different in another... at different times... and on top of that it seems like its always changing and whatnot as it rolls along...

 

 

Now what does it grade already....?????

 

Your stated 17 1/2% seller's fee is highly inaccurate - typically, seller's fees are nowhere near that high.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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It is graded MS62 by PCGS. Does anyone have the greysheet price on this dollar?

 

CDN does not list a price for MS62's. However, it is listed at $1800 in MS60 and $3975 in MS63.

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mumu

mumu

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My last paragraph above wasn't very clear, my point was, for anyone who knows all the ins and outs about the "seated liberty half market" (I do not) they would know exactly where to buy for the cheapest, and exactly where to turn around and sell for the most value...

 

"seated liberty half market'? You posted a pic of an 1859-O Seated Dollar. :(

 

He didn't post any pic.

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BillJones

BillJones

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The coin looks like an MS-62 to me. It has too many small bag marks, and a scrape on Ms. Liberty's tight breast that looks too much like wear.

 

Most Mint State 1859-O and 1860-O dollars came from a bag of Treasury hoard coins that surfaced circa 1961. Most of the coins are "white" (not toned) with bag marks like you see on this piece. As for value Gray Sheet bid is $1,800 in MS-60 and $3,975 in MS-63. You can interpolate from there. Maybe $25 to $26 hundred?

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AHFreak

AHFreak

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Hey CSdot... I apologize, I was half asleep last night, and I made the mistake of thinking that was a half dollar when you posted the pics...

 

So Everyone. Please disregard my "greysheet" numbers.. those were numbers for half dollar.... Again, I apologize.

 

 

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wdrob

wdrob

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I think it would grade MS62, although I think it has everything there for a MS63. I don't see anything so distracting to warrant under a MS63, other than the value of the coin in that grade - (based on some of the terrible looking and extremely distracting MS63 Morgans that I see quite often)

 

Nice coin. I like it. I can only hope that the one I have showing up on the doorstep soon will be as nice.

 

 

 

*** I just noticed you had posted the grade in between my viewing this thread and then offering my opinion. I still stand by the above.

 

 

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CSdot

CSdot

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Hey CSdot... I apologize, I was half asleep last night, and I made the mistake of thinking that was a half dollar when you posted the pics...

 

So Everyone. Please disregard my "greysheet" numbers.. those were numbers for half dollar.... Again, I apologize.

 

 

No problem. You were trying to be helpful, and we all make mistakes. (thumbs u

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