U.S. government: Give us back our penny!

[Doohickamabob]

Government wants its rare aluminum 1974 penny back...

 

STORY

 

It was never issued as legal tender.

 

Thoughts?

[BillJones]

This falls into the same category as the 1933 double eagles. It was never officially released so it still is government property. As I remember these were given out to members of Congress to show them what an aluminum cent would be like. Some of the Congressman never returned them so that's how they got out into numismatic circulation.

 

My view is the government would be better off collecting the income taxes generated from the sale of the coin, but people in government are not rational. They would rather spend a fortune in legal fees to get thing back because as far they are concerned the taxpayers' money is play money that they can waste at will. That fact that taxpayers have to work to earn money does not matter the people in the Federal Government.

[bsshog40]

I think that if these were not suppose to be issued, then why were some given to high up officials? Sounds like a discriminating procedure to me. Someone in the normal public has one now and the gov't wants it back. I say too bad! I hope the guy wins the battle.

[Coindude]

The thing about this is that there are tons of coins that are off metal that were never officially issued... I don't see them clamoring about trying to get those back. What if there was a 1975 aluminum cent... none were officially minted but what if there were one. Would they go after that? Just wait for DC to start minting 74 aluminum cents... they were never officially released so what's to stop him?

[bsshog40]

The thing about this is that there are tons of coins that are off metal that were never officially issued... I don't see them clamoring about trying to get those back. What if there was a 1975 aluminum cent... none were officially minted but what if there were one. Would they go after that? Just wait for DC to start minting 74 aluminum cents... they were never officially released so what's to stop him?

And his new 2009 Proof SAE that is out now! As far as I'm concerned, very deceptive to those unknowledgeable. Opps, did I get OT?

[jom]

This falls into the same category as the 1933 double eagles. It was never officially released so it still is government property. As I remember these were given out to members of Congress to show them what an aluminum cent would be like. Some of the Congressman never returned them so that's how they got out into numismatic circulation.

 

My view is the government would be better off collecting the income taxes generated from the sale of the coin, but people in government are not rational. They would rather spend a fortune in legal fees to get thing back because as far they are concerned the taxpayers' money is play money that they can waste at will. That fact that taxpayers have to work to earn money does not matter the people in the Federal Government.

 

Then when the govt gets the coin back what are they gonna do with it? Either they will melt it or do nothing. How does that help the govt or the people exactly?

 

Now if they got the coin back and then SOLD it back into the coin market THAT I can go for...at least the govt gets some money back to pay off it's astounding debt.

 

It's the same with the 1933 Double Eagles. Why not partner with the family that had them in any sale? That's better than just sales taxes, right. Both parties win and the govt pays off debt. I don't understand all of the time and money wasted in court....mind blowing.

 

jom

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

I don't understand why they would want it back. What are they going to do with it? Are they just going to sell it back into the market?

[bsshog40]

 

Then when the govt gets the coin back what are they gonna do with it? Either they will melt it or do nothing. How does that help the govt or the people exactly?

 

Now if they got the coin back and then SOLD it back into the coin market THAT I can go for...at least the govt gets some money back to pay off it's astounding debt.

 

It's the same with the 1933 Double Eagles. Why not partner with the family that had them in any sale? That's better than just sales taxes, right. Both parties win and the govt pays off debt. I don't understand all of the time and money wasted in court....mind blowing.

 

jom

[cpm9ball]

My view is the government would be better off collecting the income taxes generated from the sale of the coin, but people in government are not rational.

 

Oh no! Not that, Bill. The IRS would be asking for back taxes and penalties, too, for the last 40 years.

 

Chris

[BillJones]

Now if they got the coin back and then SOLD it back into the coin market THAT I can go for...at least the govt gets some money back to pay off it's astounding debt.

 

Giving the Federal Government more money will do nothing to fix the debt. They don't care how big the debt gets. The Federal Government just spends money with no accountability. After all, that joker from Time Magazine, Joe Kline, has told us that the national debt doesn't matter. Us mortals should take advice from him since he "knows" everything. When you see statements like that from the "intellectuals" you know that there is no desire to fix the problem.

[L1ncolnF4n]

This falls into the same category as the 1933 double eagles. It was never officially released so it still is government property. As I remember these were given out to members of Congress to show them what an aluminum cent would be like. Some of the Congressman never returned them so that's how they got out into numismatic circulation.

 

My view is the government would be better off collecting the income taxes generated from the sale of the coin, but people in government are not rational. They would rather spend a fortune in legal fees to get thing back because as far they are concerned the taxpayers' money is play money that they can waste at will. That fact that taxpayers have to work to earn money does not matter the people in the Federal Government.

 

The 1974 P's were given to members of Congress. The D's were never authorized to begin with as far as I'm aware.

[Coindude]

Neither were the 43 P, D and S versions of copper coins, but they're legal to own.

[BillJones]

Neither were the 43 P, D and S versions of copper coins, but they're legal to own.

 

Those pieces were mint errors and were issued legally so far as I know. The wrong planchets got into the hopper, and you had off-metal coins as a result.

 

The only way that they would be truly illegal would be if they were an inside job at the mint, like the 1913 Liberty Nickel, which was made illegally IMO.

[Conder101]

This falls into the same category as the 1933 double eagles. It was never officially released so it still is government property. As I remember these were given out to members of Congress to show them what an aluminum cent would be like. Some of the Congressman never returned them so that's how they got out into numismatic circulation.

This is correct for the 1974 no mint mark cents, the coin in discussion here is a 1974 D cent. It was NOT part of the 1974 aluminum cent testing. The mint has NO RECORD, of any ever being produced. So it is either a clandestine striking made unofficially by someone at the Denver Mint, or a mint error struck on an "orphan" planchet that may have come in mixed with cent planchet from an outside supplier.

 

What if there was a 1975 aluminum cent... none were officially minted but what if there were one.

They did strike aluminum 1975 cents, 15 of them. Why? I have no idea. But according their records all of those were destroyed.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

+1

 

Without getting into a political thing, the United States sent a man to the moon with technology that wasn't much more powerful than today's hand calculator. You'd think they'd be able to balance a budget.

[RWB]

The aluminum patterns are not coins.

[CaptHenway]

This falls into the same category as the 1933 double eagles. It was never officially released so it still is government property. As I remember these were given out to members of Congress to show them what an aluminum cent would be like. Some of the Congressman never returned them so that's how they got out into numismatic circulation.

This is correct for the 1974 no mint mark cents, the coin in discussion here is a 1974 D cent. It was NOT part of the 1974 aluminum cent testing. The mint has NO RECORD, of any ever being produced. So it is either a clandestine striking made unofficially by someone at the Denver Mint, or a mint error struck on an "orphan" planchet that may have come in mixed with cent planchet from an outside supplier.

 

What if there was a 1975 aluminum cent... none were officially minted but what if there were one.

They did strike aluminum 1975 cents, 15 of them. Why? I have no idea. But according their records all of those were destroyed.

 

As I pointed out in an article in COINage Magazine that should be hitting the newsstands, there is a foreign aluminum planchet of approximately the same weight that was being struck as a Proof in San Francisco in 1974. (Details in the article.) We know for a fact that the SFAO was shipping reject Proof planchets to Denver in 1974, which is how we got 1974-D Ikes struck on 40% silver planchets.

 

However, a 1974-D cent struck on a foreign aluminum SFAO planchet would be "merely" a great error coin, and worth a lot less than an actual and deliberate U.S. Mint trial piece. A lot of the potantial value for this piece comes (came?) from the fact that it was accompanied by a story linking it to a deliberate striking at the Denver Mint.

 

IMHO, had this piece been presented as a wonderful error coin, the Mint would not be seeking its return. However, there is no taking back the origin story now. The piece will have to live or die based upon that story.

 

TD

[RWB]

Looking forward to your article TD! I've not been convinced there was any reason to deliberately make a pattern piece in aluminum at any mint except Philadlphia.

[mtnstyne]

The series 691 and 701 were never issued but you can buy them online daily.

[Conder101]

As I pointed out in an article in COINage Magazine that should be hitting the newsstands, there is a foreign aluminum planchet of approximately the same weight that was being struck as a Proof in San Francisco in 1974.

I pointed out the same thing on the online forums back when the 74-D aluminum cent was announced.

[A.Phillips]

If the government wants the 74-D aluminum back, why didn't they want 1913 liberty head nickel back? It's unauthorized by US Mint too. 2 of 5 are in museums for sure, and other 3 are somewhere, maybe in private collections.

[19Lyds]

Damn. I've been out all day and thought that I'd maybe missed the announcement that the government is getting rid of the cent!

 

 

Maybe next year?

[19Lyds]

If the government wants the 74-D aluminum back, why didn't they want 1913 liberty head nickel back? It's unauthorized by US Mint too. 2 of 5 are in museums for sure, and other 3 are somewhere, maybe in private collections.

From what I understand, they want it back before it goes on public sale.

 

The 1913 Nickels would have to go on public sa........................

 

 

Never mind.

[benjmurts]

Whats next, the government is going to want all "Their" gold coins back

 

Leave us alone!!

[CaptHenway]

Any new developments in the clawback?

[messydesk]

Just wait for DC to start minting 74 aluminum cents... they were never officially released so what's to stop him?

The fact that all of his fantasy-dated stuff is overstruck on genuine US coinage so that it can't be called counterfeit. He has no US host coin available for this. If he were to overstrike a Japanese 1 yen, machined down a little to the right diameter, with a US design, that would be counterfeiting