WOW!! I can't believe PCGS could make a mistake like this!!!!

[Coindude]

Ok... not really but with all the NGC bashing lately, how bout thissun... PS: I stole this from ATS!

Is that two small d's carved between Liberty's nose and star 4?

Link to large photos from HA.

[RWB]

Even without the defacement, I would not call that a MS-66. To me, gold should be held to the same standard as silver. That might result in fewer high numerical grade pieces, but so what? That's just the nature of the roadkill.

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

I have found a NGC few slabs with small mistakes on the labels, i.e. the label says 1963, but the coin is actually a 1963-D. And I've wonder if any TPG has ever made a mistake on the grade as well, i.e. the grader's opinion is that a coin is MS 65, but whoever made up the label printed MS 63.

[orifdoc]

I have found a NGC few slabs with small mistakes on the labels, i.e. the label says 1963, but the coin is actually a 1963-D. And I've wonder if any TPG has ever made a mistake on the grade as well, i.e. the grader's opinion is that a coin is MS 65, but whoever made up the label printed MS 63.

 

Nope.

 

Never happens.

 

Never.

[RWB]

...now, if you had found an elephant in the slab, that would be a major problem!

[L1ncolnF4n]

It's not defacement, it's a hit from a reeded edge IMO. Either way, grading by macro images is going to show flaws on any coin. I'm not defending the grade, but the bashing is really annoying after a time.

[Coindude]

...now, if you had found an elephant in the slab, that would be a major problem!

Houston.... we have a problem!

[Coindude]

It's not defacement, it's a hit from a reeded edge IMO. Either way, grading by macro images is going to show flaws on any coin. I'm not defending the grade, but the bashing is really annoying after a time.

BTW, there was no bashing here... this post was purely in jest.

 

And in case you're wondering, PCGS even has elephants in its slabs.

[GoldFinger1969]

I'm not seeing the 'defacement'....I see coin bag marks and what looks like a double "pp" to the left of Liberty's nose....but the coin shows good luster, esp. on the reverse.

 

I'm not saying I can tell this isn't an MS-66 with my limited skills, but is there a 'killer' mark or blemish I am missing ?

 

What do you guys rate this -- MS-65 ? 64 ? 63 ?

[yonico]

I have found a NGC few slabs with small mistakes on the labels, i.e. the label says 1963, but the coin is actually a 1963-D. And I've wonder if any TPG has ever made a mistake on the grade as well, i.e. the grader's opinion is that a coin is MS 65, but whoever made up the label printed MS 63.

 

Nope.

 

Never happens.

 

Never.

 

How can you say that with such confidence..?

 

Clerical errors happen in both PCGS and NGC, whether on the date part of the label, the denomination, or the grade.

it DOES happen, and they do sometimes slip through quality control guys. When you grade 1000's of coins every day, mistakes happen.

 

It is even mentioned in the TPG's guarantee of grade and authenticity that clerical errors that are onvious errors are NOT covered in the guarantee.

 

Example: from PCGS:

 

"A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale."

[yonico]

Even without the defacement, I would not call that a MS-66. To me, gold should be held to the same standard as silver. That might result in fewer high numerical grade pieces, but so what? That's just the nature of the roadkill.

 

I don't like it at MS66 myself (even though i'm not sure its a defacement), but

do you think coins of different sizes and different metal composition should be held to the same standard?

 

obviously an MS64 silver dollar is "allowed" to have a little more hits/marks than an MS64 half dime due to its size.

why shouldn't a (almost) 22K gold coin be allowed a few more marks at that grade level than a silver one, due to its softness/weakness?

[Conder101]

I don't think it's with confidence, I think it's with tougue in cheek and he is meaning exactly the opposite of what he is saying.

[yonico]

I don't think it's with confidence, I think it's with tougue in cheek and he is meaning exactly the opposite of what he is saying.

 

Reading it again now, I'm sure you're right

 

[jom]

I just got back a Bust Dime I bought at Long Beach that was in a Half Dime holder. PCGS corrected the problem...no big deal. However, they owe me postage and they are taking their sweet time paying me back.

 

 

jom

[jpcienkus]

I have found a NGC few slabs with small mistakes on the labels, i.e. the label says 1963, but the coin is actually a 1963-D. And I've wonder if any TPG has ever made a mistake on the grade as well, i.e. the grader's opinion is that a coin is MS 65, but whoever made up the label printed MS 63.

 

Nope.

 

Never happens.

 

Never.

 

How can you say that with such confidence..?

 

Clerical errors happen in both PCGS and NGC, whether on the date part of the label, the denomination, or the grade.

it DOES happen, and they do sometimes slip through quality control guys. When you grade 1000's of coins every day, mistakes happen.

 

It is even mentioned in the TPG's guarantee of grade and authenticity that clerical errors that are onvious errors are NOT covered in the guarantee.

 

Example: from PCGS:

 

"A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale."

 

Yonico, I think his post was purely sarcastic in nature.

[yonico]

I have found a NGC few slabs with small mistakes on the labels, i.e. the label says 1963, but the coin is actually a 1963-D. And I've wonder if any TPG has ever made a mistake on the grade as well, i.e. the grader's opinion is that a coin is MS 65, but whoever made up the label printed MS 63.

 

Nope.

 

Never happens.

 

Never.

 

How can you say that with such confidence..?

 

Clerical errors happen in both PCGS and NGC, whether on the date part of the label, the denomination, or the grade.

it DOES happen, and they do sometimes slip through quality control guys. When you grade 1000's of coins every day, mistakes happen.

 

It is even mentioned in the TPG's guarantee of grade and authenticity that clerical errors that are onvious errors are NOT covered in the guarantee.

 

Example: from PCGS:

 

"A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale."

 

Yonico, I think his post was purely sarcastic in nature.

 

Yeah I now see it. My bad.

[Coindude]

I'm pretty sure this whole thread was built from sarcasm!

[Mr. Smith Guesser]

well, here is the proof that NGC has made mistakes on the label:

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=3550192-009

 

a 1953-S in a 1952-S slab.

[Prethen]

With marks on the cheek like that...no way a 66. I thought the cheek was a focal area...maybe not. People keep saying the coin is much smaller than the picture. Sorry, the picture ain't that big and the coin ain't really small (and ain't ain't a word!). I don't care whose holder it's in...it's not worth "6" money in my book. In my view, it's a problem in that holder and in that holder it will remain entombed.

 

[bochiman]

I'm pretty sure this whole thread was built from sarcasm!

 

Sarcasm doesn't always travel well in the written form....such as these forums.

Instead, it can more easily come across as just another thread taking a shot at something/someone.

 

Always here certain people saying how "nice" the folks here are, versus on the PCGS boards where people are mean-spirited, etc. Then, seeing a title like the one in this thread just sets the tone wrong.

 

Oh well

[Hard Times]

I'm pretty sure this whole thread was built from sarcasm!

 

Sarcasm doesn't always travel well in the written form....such as these forums.

Instead, it can more easily come across as just another thread taking a shot at something/someone.

 

Always here certain people saying how "nice" the folks here are, versus on the PCGS boards where people are mean-spirited, etc. Then, seeing a title like the one in this thread just sets the tone wrong.

 

Oh well

 

Yet another PCGS apologist coming over here and trying to stir the broth on a harmless thread started by one of the nicest guys on the boards. Thanks for that. Isn't there some broth over there than needs attending? Better go back and get to it.

 

Best, HT

[bsshog40]

If anyone actually reads the first post, it didn't look to me like it was a stab at PCGS. The title was merely in jest.

[coinman1794]

As others have said, it does appear to be a reeding mark. Often, the flaws visible in photos are nearly imperceptible on the actual coin, in hand. I suspect that's the case here, because I would not call this MS66, and maybe not MS65, if it is that marked up.

[bochiman]

I'm pretty sure this whole thread was built from sarcasm!

 

Sarcasm doesn't always travel well in the written form....such as these forums.

Instead, it can more easily come across as just another thread taking a shot at something/someone.

 

Always here certain people saying how "nice" the folks here are, versus on the PCGS boards where people are mean-spirited, etc. Then, seeing a title like the one in this thread just sets the tone wrong.

 

Oh well

 

Yet another PCGS apologist coming over here and trying to stir the broth on a harmless thread started by one of the nicest guys on the boards. Thanks for that. Isn't there some broth over there than needs attending? Better go back and get to it.

 

Best, HT

 

Apologist? Nope. I just HONESTLY see both sides and whenever someone tries to pump things up by bashing on one or the other, I see no problem calling it out.

 

You are quite the negative person though, aren't you? You jump on anything against CAC and against PCGS every chance you can.

 

Quite nice and welcoming, aren't you? Tell me to go back to the PCGS boards...I don't see me starting threads on either board attacking any of the services......

 

Sorry that I don't fit in your "attack PCGS at all costs" clique you seem to want to have running

[Coindude]

HT, thanks for the kind words. I post here and there, I usually have no problem with anyone at either board. The times I've been irritated by people usually happen ATS.

 

Try to just say the word NGC ATS and see what happens. Someone was asking about a Merc they had over there the other day. I stated that via the NGC standard the coin would not make it but might at PCGS. One of their apologists jumped so quick and high it was incredible.

 

Regardless whether you want to believe it or not this thread was a fun poke because of a recent thread ATS attacking NGC. Bochi, whether you want to admit it or not that happens a lot over there and we all know it. A lot of us hang here and ATS and we've all seen it.

 

The honest fact it, I own a lot of NGC slabs, a lot of PCGS slabs and a lot of 3rd world slabs. Looking through my holding most of my high dollar coins, and I'm only talking in the 1k range, are in PCGS holders but I like posting and hanging out here more. I guess that means I like NGC people but I like coins in PCGS slabs? I don't know what that means all in all but that's what it is and I can't and wont make excuses for either, it is what it is.

[jpcienkus]

HT, thanks for the kind words. I post here and there, I usually have no problem with anyone at either board. The times I've been irritated by people usually happen ATS.

 

Try to just say the word NGC ATS and see what happens. Someone was asking about a Merc they had over there the other day. I stated that via the NGC standard the coin would not make it but might at PCGS. One of their apologists jumped so quick and high it was incredible.

 

Regardless whether you want to believe it or not this thread was a fun poke because of a recent thread ATS attacking NGC. Bochi, whether you want to admit it or not that happens a lot over there and we all know it. A lot of us hang here and ATS and we've all seen it.

 

The honest fact it, I own a lot of NGC slabs, a lot of PCGS slabs and a lot of 3rd world slabs. Looking through my holding most of my high dollar coins, and I'm only talking in the 1k range, are in PCGS holders but I like posting and hanging out here more. I guess that means I like NGC people but I like coins in PCGS slabs? I don't know what that means all in all but that's what it is and I can't and wont make excuses for either, it is what it is.

 

+1

 

My experience as well. I don't post much ATS, just lurk. I'm always up for learning so that's why I visit ATS.

[Hard Times]

Bochi, thanks for your thoughts. If you mean that I am a 'negative person' because when I see issues that need discussion with respect to PCGS, NGC, and CAC, I am not afraid to raise and discuss these issues and their implications, and even, oh my, disagree with some on these issues, well, guilty as charged. I have many PCGS, NGC, and CAC graded coins. Love all three companies and appreciate each of their roles in numismatics. But that won't stop me from debating issues on their imperfections. So call me negative for that, no worries.

 

If you mean that I am a 'negative person' because you called Sam out for posting this thread in jest and in response to NGC bashing ATS, such that I called you out for doing so, then again, by all means, call me negative for that, and proud of it.

 

But otherwise, how about checking out my threads below and enjoy the wonderful coins and tokens.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4236774

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4555785#Post4555785

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7564366

 

 

Best, HT

[Mohawk]

I'm actually surprised to see that with a US coin from PCGS......but, once again not bashing but just saying how it is, you'd be amazed and horrified at some of the things PCGS does with world coins. For example, PCGS will full numerically grade zinc coins with deep pits of white zinc corrosion when they should be detail graded. I've never seen NGC do such a thing. PCGS certainly knows their US coins, hence my surprise at this, but man.......their world grading can really be a mess!

[Kurtdog]

I'm pretty sure this whole thread was built from sarcasm!

Sarcasm doesn't always travel well in the written form....such as these forums.

Instead, it can more easily come across as just another thread taking a shot at something/someone.

 

Always here certain people saying how "nice" the folks here are, versus on the PCGS boards where people are mean-spirited, etc. Then, seeing a title like the one in this thread just sets the tone wrong.

 

Oh well

Yet another PCGS apologist coming over here and trying to stir the broth on a harmless thread started by one of the nicest guys on the boards. Thanks for that. Isn't there some broth over there than needs attending? Better go back and get to it.

 

Best, HT

Apologist? Nope. I just HONESTLY see both sides and whenever someone tries to pump things up by bashing on one or the other, I see no problem calling it out.

 

You are quite the negative person though, aren't you? You jump on anything against CAC and against PCGS every chance you can.

 

Quite nice and welcoming, aren't you? Tell me to go back to the PCGS boards...I don't see me starting threads on either board attacking any of the services......

 

Sorry that I don't fit in your "attack PCGS at all costs" clique you seem to want to have running

Ignernt. Plumb ignernt.

[bochiman]

And, this is what happens on this board. Someone doesn't just jump in on the PCGS/CAC dogpiles, but uses their own brains, and they get jumped on and called ignorant by someone(s) that seem to add nothing to any knowledge.

 

My point is simple....on either board, just bashing a TPGS does no good and isn't cool. Being "funny" on a message board, by trying to use sarcasm, doesn't come across and some people take it literally.

 

I was called an "apologist" but, I don't think that is apt. I may post on both boards, but I always here how this is the nicer board.

 

Funny thing is that there is just as much bashing that goes on here. Whether against PCGS/CAC/or just someone that does their own thinking and voices their own mind asking for more common sense and less bashing to occur. Heck, the amount of bashing may even be greater by certain folks here just because there is lesser volume of other things to hide the bashing by having it pushed off the screen. And, claiming, when MANY examples/prices are shown, that a certain TPGS has more value within certain series/coin types/grades, isn't bashing. It is obviously a fact of the market.

 

Some hide it behind "critical thinking" or "asking the hard questions", but, really, some of that is just a smoke screen, imho.

 

I don't think I have, on either board, made fun of a TPGS nor started a thread on them in that context, either in earnest or as a joke. Heck the one time I tried to make a joke (funny) thread was on PCGS and I ended up offending a forum friend, because written jokes don't always come across as meant.

 

So, go out of your way, jump on me all you want, I have said my piece on it (and will continue to do so in the future, here or there).

 

I come to the boards for information, knowledge, and the enjoyment of coins. I don't come to make fun of dealers, collectors, ebay buyers, ebay sellers, TPGSs, etc....although, it is obvious that others do enjoy the debasement provided by certain posters.