Cleaning For Dummies: What's Allowed, What's Not

[GoldFinger1969]

I was going to ask these questions in the Ebay thread but thought it might generate enough responses that it should be separate.

 

With regards to coins:

 

(1) What is 'dipping' and is it allowed by TPGs ? What can you dip a coin into -- acetone, MS70, silver cleaner, what ?

 

(2) How is 'cleaning' defined: if a TPG 'cleans' shipwreck coins or hoard coins of surface contaminate that is allowed, but not cleaning away of marks, rust, etc ?

 

(3) Does 'dipping' accentuate or cause 'toning' in copper or silver coins ?

 

(4) For a non-graded silver or gold coin (say, bullion), if it's already been touched and it's not something that is to be graded, what kind of cloth/microfiber material is best for wiping/cleaning ? If for example I have a coin designated for touching or holding but want to wipe it after a bunch of kids hold it, what material is best and/or worst ?

 

(5) Back to acetone...regardless of whether it's allowed or good for certain coins, what's the attraction ? I see it mentioned alot on these boards.....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone

 

(6) Putty: any way to determine if its on a coin ? UV light ? Unless this is in a liquid form, the putty's I know of are so thick that I would think you would see it easily if it is spread over part or all of a coin's face, no ?

[Raisethis2]

It's generally understood that an acetone soak will remove waterbased contaminants like fingerprints, loose dirt and nose grease while doing no actual harm to a properly rinsed (warm water followed by distilled water) silver coin. Acetone will also remove artificial toning in some cases.

 

You or I should never try anything more unless we're willing to suffer the consequences.

 

Professional coin conservation companies (allegedly) use all kinds of "secret" formulas which include a variety of harsher chemicals that are diluted to do more difficult conservation without doing any more than absolutely necessary.

 

In almost every case rubbing of any kind is frowned upon and almost always harms the coin beyond grading.

 

I personally wouldn't be surprised to learn coins are suspended and agitated in a bath of some type where the "friction" is caused only by movement and not by direct contact.

 

The Saddle Ridge Hoard was probably one of the most extensive undertakings ever in coin conservation. Don't kid yourself. The holders may say MS 66 but those coins were cleaned. If they can do it, you can do it (and get a grade). It just takes stones and otherwise hopeless coins.

 

 

That's my take.

 

 

[RWB]

Cleaning Four Dummies (more or less):

Use warm soapy water to clean your dummies. If they are really sticky from lots of kid birthday parties or executive retreats, then you will need to remove the metal parts and clean them in a strong solvent. Touch up any damaged paint spots and overcoat so that the dummy's finish is smooth and appealing.

 

Store your dummy in a plastic dry cleaner's bag or specially made case lined with soft material to avoid dust and scratches.

 

Treat your dummy right and it will give you many years of faithful service until it has to be retired to a TV reality show.

 

[Raisethis2]

I am curious. I've often seen comments such as "that coin would benefit from a quick dip". The question is, in what?

 

Further, what's the exact method that should be used to ensure minimal damage is done?

[Crohnos01]

Cleaning Four Dummies (more or less):

Use warm soapy water to clean your dummies. If they are really sticky from lots of kid birthday parties or executive retreats, then you will need to remove the metal parts and clean them in a strong solvent. Touch up any damaged paint spots and overcoat so that the dummy's finish is smooth and appealing.

 

Store your dummy in a plastic dry cleaner's bag or specially made case lined with soft material to avoid dust and scratches.

 

Treat your dummy right and it will give you many years of faithful service until it has to be retired to a TV reality show.

 

I think Roger has explained the mystery of onslaught of reality TV shows that has mystified me for some time now...

[RWB]

"Cleaning," like ventriloquist dummies, gets tossed around a lot with little thought.

 

Here are a couple of concepts:

There are two types of “cleaning” as used by coin collectors

1) Chemical or physical alteration of the metal;

2) Superficial removal without altering the metal surface.

 

#1 Includes acid and other liquid dips to change or remove tarnish and other stains. Metal is altered and/or removed and the original surface is changed. This also includes mechanical alteration such as whizzing, buffing, plating and so forth. The changes are permanent.

 

#2 Superficial removal refers to separating foreign materials from the surface of a coin where there is no chemical bond. Washing off dirt, or lifting off rust or calcium deposits and common. In some instances, the surface deposit can protect the underlying coin alloy and result in exposure of entirely original metal surfaces. Many neophytes combine superficial removal with brushing and that damages the original surface of the coin.

 

In all cases, the coin surface has to be neutralized and stabilized after “cleaning.”

 

To me, “conserving” is the use of the best techniques available to remove superficial material and maintain the freshly exposed surface. A lot depends on the metal and the original problem. Coin World has an excellent monthly column on this subject. In the “good ol’ days” this was often done by waxing or varnishing coins – especially copper.

 

Comment: More damage has been done to nice coins by well-intentioned collectors than any other event.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Everything you need to know about Acetone can be found in a 3-part series of articles I wrote a couple of years ago: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5536102#Post5536102

[e1cnr]

Don't wrap your dummies in PVC or shower curtains, otherwise they may get an ugly green covering that attacks. Acetone helps remove this green sheen.

 

Be careful dipping in acid as it slowly eats away the metal.

 

Learn before wrecking anything valuable.

[DaveG]

This is "dip": Link. It is an acid, but the TPGs will slab dipped coins in "no problem" slabs, as long as they haven't been "over-dipped", which diminishes the luster of an Unc. coin.

 

MS-70 is a detergent (or a "surfactant"); I don't believe it harms your coins. Link

 

TomB is a chemist and has written about coin cleaning. Perhaps, if he gets a chance, he'll respond or link to his article.

 

Personally, I almost entirely buy circulated coins, which I prefer to leave dirty.

[AcesKings]

Everything you need to know about Acetone can be found in a 3-part series of articles I wrote a couple of years ago: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5536102#Post5536102

 

I've been thinking of giving the coin below a dip, to see if it'd help with the spotting, but I've read that using acetone on copper can cause toning problems. Is that because the coin was improperly rinsed or is there something to these claims? What would be your (and others) opinion on giving this one a dip? Anyone have before and after pics of a similar coin?

 

 

[Raisethis2]

My understanding is that copper is off limits when it comes to acetone. There's a product called ms70 I think is detergent based and you can dip copper in it but I'm not certain.

[wheat'swheats]

This is "dip": Link. It is an acid, but the TPGs will slab dipped coins in "no problem" slabs, as long as they haven't been "over-dipped", which diminishes the luster of an Unc. coin.

 

MS-70 is a detergent (or a "surfactant"); I don't believe it harms your coins. Link

 

TomB is a chemist and has written about coin cleaning. Perhaps, if he gets a chance, he'll respond or link to his article.

 

Personally, I almost entirely buy circulated coins, which I prefer to leave dirty.

I have seen copper turn blue when ms70 was used. I would not dare put one of mine in ms70. I just would not take the chance. I know people do and have good luck, but I have seen many blue Indians and lincolns when it is used. Copper is just too volatile to attempt.

[AcesKings]

So, best to leave this one to the professionals then.

[RWB]

Nearly every coin cleaning experiment any of us might think of has already been tired, and has already ruined a chunk of coins. Coin collectors are very picky - one tiny scratch or mark whold mean nothing to most people, but it would drive a collector's blood pressure up and your potential bank account down.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Hot, hot water. It is what McCarthy of Kagin's used. He said his fingers became very raw even though he probably used surgical gloves. Distilled water, I didn't know that most tap water would be a problem. It seems that many of the graders can tell exactly what was done to the coin(s) as they assign grades.

[RWB]

As an aside: Thick rust can be removed from a gold or silver coin by putting the coin in very hot water (or glycerin). The coin and rust expand at different rates and the rust will pop off -- often leaving a very nice cast of the coin. Use distilled water – no impurities to tarnish the coin.