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Opinions on toning

Started by mikew148,

35 posts in this topic

mikew148

mikew148

Posted
Posted

I stopped by my local coin shop this weekend and decided to purchase this Kennedy half. I had previously told the owner that I might be interested in toned silver coins so she purchased it when it came in.

 

What are your impressions of the toning? AT,NT? How would a coin get this type of toning?

 

Thanks!

 

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted

Ive not seen those colors together on a JFK. And I dont like how blotchy the toning is.

 

I would have to say that its not MA (market acceptable). As for NT vs. AT, I think that is an impossible discussion to have. But its easier to decide MA vs. Not MA.

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted

The way I look at these issues is that I find that coin pretty ugly (no offense intended) so I don't really care whether it's AT or MA. I call it BU for Butt Ugly.

 

If someone tried to tone that "on purpose" they did a bad job...whoever they are they need a new profession. :D

 

jom

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KeyMan64

KeyMan64

Posted
Posted

I am not so turned off by the toning but it is not toning I would pay up for and if I had to guess, I would say AT...since the spotting is a turn off, the coin would not be for me.

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted

I would say the coin is questionably toned but it is not a high grade coin and isn't worth very much anyway. To me, this is a "fun" coin if you like the toning and can acquire it without paying a huge premium.

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BKW

BKW

Posted
Posted

I've seen color like this on Kennedy's before, both raw and graded. But I've also found Kennedy's with color to be hit or miss with the TPGs. This would probably come back details.

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

Posted
Posted

I'm with e1cnr here, the obverse looks to have some PVC or contamination haze. If there's something there I'd suggest a half hour in acetone followed by warm water then air in a spray can.

 

If it's AT the toning may wash off in the process but there's no harm.

 

It's attractive enough but certainly not worthy of a premium IMO.

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mikew148

mikew148

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

 

The coin shop owner bought it for spot and sold it to me for spot + $ .50 so neither of us thought very highly of the toning. ( Birth year coin that will probably be taking a bath to remove the spots.)

 

I do however always find the opinions of AT vs NT vs MA interesting.

 

Any opinions on how this coin got these colors?

 

Thanks again :grin:

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted

I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

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BKW

BKW

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

 

exactly what I was thinking.....

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

 

exactly what I was thinking.....

 

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

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BKW

BKW

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

 

exactly what I was thinking.....

 

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

 

How do you define improper storage?

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Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

 

exactly what I was thinking.....

 

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

 

How do you define improper storage?

 

:popcorn:

 

I would like to know that, too. :foryou:

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
I don't like the spotting on the coin.

 

1964 Kennedys can sometimes tone this way, so it's hard to say AT or NT form a picture. The problem is the milk spotting, which is very distracting and will lower the numerical grade significantly, should it be deemed NT.

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

 

exactly what I was thinking.....

 

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

 

How do you define improper storage?

 

Your example will work nicely.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

exactly what I was thinking.....

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

How do you define improper storage?

Your example will work nicely.

Lehigh, if the garage in Florida was air-conditioned and humidity-controlled, would that be proper storage?

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

exactly what I was thinking.....

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

How do you define improper storage?

Your example will work nicely.

Lehigh, if the garage in Florida was air-conditioned and humidity-controlled, would that be proper storage?

 

Of course

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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Posted

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

 

How is it even possible to split hairs to that level? So basically any coin not put into an "approved" coin storage source would be net graded ? I assume you are talking about albums, envelopes and 2x2 holders. Are there other approved storage methods ?

 

And why would a coin that was put into a third party holder such as a velvet box or a cardboard frame and toned over 30 years be net graded ? Because people dont normally put coins into velvet boxes ? There's a company out there that sells a lot of velvet boxes so I suppose enough people do.

 

Besides a Florida attic can you list some other improper storage methods ?

 

 

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lehigh96

lehigh96

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Posted

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

 

How is it even possible to split hairs to that level? So basically any coin not put into an "approved" coin storage source would be net graded ? I assume you are talking about albums, envelopes and 2x2 holders. Are there other approved storage methods ?

 

And why would a coin that was put into a third party holder such as a velvet box or a cardboard frame and toned over 30 years be net graded ? Because people dont normally put coins into velvet boxes ? There's a company out there that sells a lot of velvet boxes so I suppose enough people do.

 

Besides a Florida attic can you list some other improper storage methods ?

 

 

 

The list is endless but it basically includes any storage method that yields a coin with an unusual toning pattern/color scheme for the series. It has nothing to do with splitting hairs. There is one simple fact that you guys are not considering. The grader has no idea how the coin was stored and certainly no idea about the intent of the coins owner. All he has to judge is the coin itself. So it makes no difference whether the owner of the coin intended to tone the coin or it happened accidentally. If the grader feels that the toning is questionable, you don't get to call them up and say "hey, i didn't artificially tone that coin, it was in my garage in Florida for the last 5 years!" The result is same, the coin has questionable toning. And if the coin was stored properly, in a climate controlled environment away from sulfur laden sources, the coin would almost certainly not end up with a details grade for questionable toning.

 

So I am sure that the next argument will be "what about target toned coins from coin albums?" And my answer is basically the same. The only difference is that storing coins in albums has long been an acceptable storage method and the toning patterns/color schemes that develop over years of storage are recognized by the graders as market acceptable. Now take that same album and put it in the Florida garage, and what happens. Perhaps some of the coins are deemed market acceptable and others are judged to have questionable toning.

 

My advice is don't worry about what storage methods are improper. Forget all about intent with relation toning. Study each series and get an idea of what toning patterns/color schemes are considered market acceptable by the TPGs. In the end, that is really all that matters.

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yonico

yonico

Posted
Posted
I have seen coins with those colors come straight out of cello sets so while it certainly could be AT.....it's not a no brainer AT coin in my book and there are many natural and unnatural ways the color could have gotten there.

 

Like being stored in a garage in the heat and humidity of Florida ;)

 

exactly what I was thinking.....

 

I have always held the contention that a coin that develops questionable toning as the result of improper storage should still be considered a problem coin regardless of the intent of the coins owner. So while the toning may have occurred naturally, it is still not market acceptable and deserves to be given a details/genuine grade for questionable color.

 

Then what about the little coin envelopes and coin albums that are made with paper that has sulfur in it? The original proof&mint set cardboards ? The mint bags that were dusted with sulfur? That would make most toned coins out there not MA.

 

Edit to add: ignore this comment. I just saw your answer to this above.

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