Another sticker startup -- PQ

[delta]

Numismatic News just announced a new competitor to CAC, to be called Premium Quality Approved, being established by Barry Stuppler and Donald Ketterling in California:

 

LINK

 

Stickering slabs is an act not without controversy, it's already being done by several auction houses and coin retailers in addition to CAC, with the potential for plastic coin slabs being covered with so many different external labels as to obscure the contents, including the underlying labels, which are already the focus of serious study.

 

There is also the question of sticker integrity, among which is the worry about stickers being removed and then attached elsewhere. One of the posters here in our NGC forum has already confessed to doing that himself with one from CAC, when he had one of his coins reholdered, and said it was no problem to do.

 

I once suggested to Mark Feld that he add a small private sticker to all the holdered coins he sold, to be a meaningful piece of the provenance, but he demurred.

 

 

[Buffalo Head]

Another sticker Just hyping their own coins.

[19Lyds]

One man's opinion is another mans garb..............

 

Oh wait I think I got that backwards!

 

One man's garbage is another mans gold.

 

Or is it one mans treasure is another mans garbage?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh whatever.

 

I'm waiting for the RRN sticker to come out so tha6t I'll know whether or not the coin is Really Really Nice!

[Walkerfan]

It's getting ridiculous IMHO.

[BillJones]

I wish that there was more competition in the certification business. A lot of short sighted people think that PCGS is the only viable service, and some of them foolishly would like PCGS to be the ONLY service.

 

Competition in the sticker service can't be a bad thing, but if they don't have an active group who support a market for their approved coins, as CAC does, it won't amount to much.

 

[BKW]

They're already in the marketplace. There were a couple in the Heratige FUN auction. Here's one that was also CAC'd and in a no-line fatty

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1201&lotNo=4203

[BKW]

I wish that there was more competition in the certification business. A lot of short sighted people think that PCGS is the only viable service, and some of them foolishly would like PCGS to be the ONLY service.

 

Competition in the sticker service can't be a bad thing, but if they don't have an active group who support a market for their approved coins, as CAC does, it won't amount to much.

 

Agreed. If you look at the "Why PQ" section of their website it's very clear to see they will not automatically be stickering every CAC coin. They're clearly setting themselves up as direct competition. Of course you could always try your luck with "the king"

 

 

Note: I do not own this coin.

 

 

[Raisethis2]

I've looked into this out of curiosity. They maintain that a coin has to be free of distracting marks for the grade, exceptional strike for the coin and no unsightly toning to get their sticker. Since CAC seems to be a club reserved for Dealers only with no new members being accepted, being able to put something credible on the slab seems logical.

 

Find me a Dealer that doesn't now ask a stupid premium for a CAC stickered coin today. CAC had no reputation starting out a few years ago and look where they're at now.

 

I'm waiting for PQ's packet to arrive in the mail. After I read through it we'll see. It can't hurt.

[Coinbuf]

Competition is a good thing and it will be interesting to see if this can gain any traction and become a viable entity. However as has been pointed out unless this new service has the ability to make a market in the coins thay sticker it will be difficuilt for the market to accept them. I will watch from the sidelines and see.

[physics-fan3.14]

There are CAC and PQ stickers and Wings and EagleEye and a whole host of stickers. They all mean the same thing to me, and you know what that is? Nothing.

[Walkerfan]

I do agree it is better than CAC having the fourth party grading service monopoly.

 

Let's not forget about Rick Tomaska's 'Everest' stickers, either.

 

I bought a couple of coins from Barry about 9 years ago and they were, in fact, 'very pq', as the name implies.

 

I sold one but still have the other. I didn't lose any money on the one I sold----it held it's value real well, even though I paid retail or better for it when I bought it.

[MarkFeld]

I've looked into this out of curiosity. They maintain that a coin has to be free of distracting marks for the grade, exceptional strike for the coin and no unsightly toning to get their sticker. Since CAC seems to be a club reserved for Dealers only with no new members being accepted, being able to put something credible on the slab seems logical.

 

Find me a Dealer that doesn't now ask a stupid premium for a CAC stickered coin today. CAC had no reputation starting out a few years ago and look where they're at now.

 

I'm waiting for PQ's packet to arrive in the mail. After I read through it we'll see. It can't hurt.

 

CAC is far from "a club reserved for Dealers..." They charge collectors only for coin submissions that sticker, while they charge dealers, either way. The fact that they are not currently accepting new memberships doesn't make them a dealer's club. They are very collector-friendly.

 

I have seen a good many CAC coins offered for sale by different dealers at prices which were other than "stupid premiums".

 

You sound as if you might have a chip on your shoulder and, as a result, are exaggerating, in order to make your points.

 

Lastly, CAC did have a "reputation" at the time of its inception, due to the well-deserved respect for its founder.

 

Other than that, I think I agree with almost everything you posted.

[coinsandmedals]

I've looked into this out of curiosity. They maintain that a coin has to be free of distracting marks for the grade, exceptional strike for the coin and no unsightly toning to get their sticker. Since CAC seems to be a club reserved for Dealers only with no new members being accepted, being able to put something credible on the slab seems logical.

 

Find me a Dealer that doesn't now ask a stupid premium for a CAC stickered coin today. CAC had no reputation starting out a few years ago and look where they're at now.

 

I'm waiting for PQ's packet to arrive in the mail. After I read through it we'll see. It can't hurt.

 

CAC is far from "a club reserved for Dealers..." They charge collectors only for coin submissions that sticker, while they charge dealers, either way. The fact that they are not currently accepting new memberships doesn't make them a dealer's club. They are very collector-friendly.

 

I have seen a good many CAC coins offered for sale by different dealers at prices which were other than "stupid premiums".

 

You sound as if you might have a chip on your shoulder and, as a result, are exaggerating, in order to make your points.

 

Lastly, CAC did have a "reputation" at the time of its inception, due to the well-deserved respect for its founder.

 

Other than that, I think I agree with almost everything you posted.

 

I agree with what Mark has just said, they are not really a dealers only club. For instance I have a membership with CAC and I'm far from a dealer and I have had my membership for less than a year. Most CAC coins garner a fairly substantial premium now, regradless of who is selling the coin, and unless the premium is very ridiculous they often do sell.

[dimefreak]

Brandon Kelley has his own sticker as well... its in its infancy and only pertains to the toning.

[Raisethis2]

I've been on CAC's waiting list since early summer. I'm not certain that at anytime during the past couple of years since I returned to collecting membership has been open. I understand that they have not allowed new members for some time (over a year) so what good are they to me?

 

I've been told and it's been mentioned here in the forum that if you only submit a limited number of coins (say 50 annually) they're not eager to invite you anyway but I cannot state that as fact. Since most Dealers joined initially I suspect that the number of Dealers waiting to get accepted is nil.

 

Seems to me that the rush to have things stickered should be long over. If they're not trying to seem exclusive, what's the holdup? If NGC or PCGS found they simply couldn't maintain an acceptable delivery timeframe, they'd hire Graders. CAC seems quite pleased with the rate of coin flow through and the number of unique submitters.

 

If you create a desire for something but then limit access you've created a "club" of sorts.

 

Regarding prices of CAC coins, look up some NGC or PCGS common MS 64 dollar prices then look at the same coin with a +. Often the difference is a pretty minimal amount. Take that same coin in MS 64 and put a CAC sticker on it and put it in a Dealers case. Watch the stupid happen. You are correct CoinsandMedals, they don't sell often.

 

As I stated above, I'm looking into PQ. The primary reason I'm interested is because of a lack of access to CAC. I feel quality coins of the future will get harder and harder to sell without a second opinion. I don't want to be losing money waiting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dimefreak]

I've been on CAC's waiting list since early summer. I'm not certain that at anytime during the past couple of years since I returned to collecting membership has been open. I understand that they have not allowed new members for some time (over a year) so what good are they to me?

 

I've been told and it's been mentioned here in the forum that if you only submit a limited number of coins (say 50 annually) they're not eager to invite you anyway but I cannot state that as fact. Since most Dealers joined initially I suspect that the number of Dealers waiting to get accepted is nil.

 

Seems to me that the rush to have things stickered should be long over. If they're not trying to seem exclusive, what's the holdup? If NGC or PCGS found they simply couldn't maintain an acceptable delivery timeframe, they'd hire Graders. CAC seems quite pleased with the rate of coin flow through and the number of unique submitters.

 

If you create a desire for something but then limit access you've created a "club" of sorts.

 

Regarding prices of CAC coins, look up some NGC or PCGS common MS 64 dollar prices then look at the same coin with a +. Often the difference is a pretty minimal amount. Take that same coin in MS 64 and put a CAC sticker on it and put it in a Dealers case. Watch the stupid happen. You are correct CoinsandMedals, they don't sell often.

 

As I stated above, I'm looking into PQ. The primary reason I'm interested is because of a lack of access to CAC. I feel quality coins of the future will get harder and harder to sell without a second opinion. I don't want to be losing money waiting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your pretty much paying for JA's opinion so they can just hire another JA.... Maybe that will help you understand the hold up. Secondly many dealers offer to send coins in.

[WoodenJefferson]

I'm considering opening up a new service called CSS or Certified Sticker Service that verifies all the stickers stuck on slabs, so you know the stickers that are stuck there are indeed authentic. Soon there will be a start-up company just to verify CSS stickers...and the game goes on.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'm considering opening up a new service called CSS or Certified Sticker Service that verifies all the stickers stuck on slabs, so you know the stickers that are stuck there are indeed authentic. Soon there will be a start-up company just to verify CSS stickers...and the game goes on.

 

I think it would be really funny to get one coin in a slab, and send it to all of the stickering services. I want ALL the stickers on one slab.

[Raisethis2]

You know someone will refuse just to be a killjoy.

[A.Phillips]

I'm considering opening up a new service called CSS or Certified Sticker Service that verifies all the stickers stuck on slabs, so you know the stickers that are stuck there are indeed authentic. Soon there will be a start-up company just to verify CSS stickers...and the game goes on.

 

I think it would be really funny to get one coin in a slab, and send it to all of the stickering services. I want ALL the stickers on one slab.

 

Haha

[coinman1794]

I've looked into this out of curiosity. They maintain that a coin has to be free of distracting marks for the grade, exceptional strike for the coin and no unsightly toning to get their sticker. Since CAC seems to be a club reserved for Dealers only with no new members being accepted, being able to put something credible on the slab seems logical.

 

Find me a Dealer that doesn't now ask a stupid premium for a CAC stickered coin today. CAC had no reputation starting out a few years ago and look where they're at now.

 

I'm waiting for PQ's packet to arrive in the mail. After I read through it we'll see. It can't hurt.

 

It is usually a premium coin, hence the higher price.

[jom]

I'm considering opening up a new service called CSS or Certified Sticker Service that verifies all the stickers stuck on slabs, so you know the stickers that are stuck there are indeed authentic. Soon there will be a start-up company just to verify CSS stickers...and the game goes on.

 

I think it would be really funny to get one coin in a slab, and send it to all of the stickering services. I want ALL the stickers on one slab.

 

I'd be funnier if they put the sticker right on top of the coin.

 

I don't know why people get bent over stickers. I mean, just ignore it if you don't like it...I mean...really who cares?

 

If you are complaining about dealers jacking up the price for CAC coins you need look no further than BUYERS to blame...they (or is it "we"?) are the ones paying the big premiums.

 

jom

[FishyOne]

They don't "PQ Approve" any denominations below Half Dollars? I must be missing something, please enlighten me.

[wdrob]

 

They don't "PQ Approve" any denominations below Half Dollars? I must be missing something, please enlighten me.

 

They have bad eyesight?

[Coinbuf]

I've been on CAC's waiting list since early summer. I'm not certain that at anytime during the past couple of years since I returned to collecting membership has been open. I understand that they have not allowed new members for some time (over a year) so what good are they to me?

 

I've been told and it's been mentioned here in the forum that if you only submit a limited number of coins (say 50 annually) they're not eager to invite you anyway but I cannot state that as fact. Since most Dealers joined initially I suspect that the number of Dealers waiting to get accepted is nil.

 

Seems to me that the rush to have things stickered should be long over. If they're not trying to seem exclusive, what's the holdup? If NGC or PCGS found they simply couldn't maintain an acceptable delivery timeframe, they'd hire Graders. CAC seems quite pleased with the rate of coin flow through and the number of unique submitters.

 

If you create a desire for something but then limit access you've created a "club" of sorts.

 

Regarding prices of CAC coins, look up some NGC or PCGS common MS 64 dollar prices then look at the same coin with a +. Often the difference is a pretty minimal amount. Take that same coin in MS 64 and put a CAC sticker on it and put it in a Dealers case. Watch the stupid happen. You are correct CoinsandMedals, they don't sell often.

 

As I stated above, I'm looking into PQ. The primary reason I'm interested is because of a lack of access to CAC. I feel quality coins of the future will get harder and harder to sell without a second opinion. I don't want to be losing money waiting.

 

I was accepted late this year and I am just a humble collector of moderate means and will be unlikely to submit more than 50 coins in any year, so while it may be limited CAC does still add collectors to the approved list.

[orifdoc]

It's pretty interesting to follow these comments and the thread ATS. As far as paying a premium for stickered coins...... Is it perhaps possible that really nice coins have always commanded better prices? Might that be part of it?

[Raisethis2]

 

 

CoinBuf,

 

It's good to know that you were accepted but I'm guessing CAC is accepting members on a first come, first served basis so the question is when did you send in your application?

 

Fishyone,

 

I hadn't heard that. That seems odd.

 

orifdoc,

 

Asking a significant premium and making a sale are two different things. Here in the Chicago area we have a coin show almost every Sunday. As a frequent attendee I see the same coins over and over. CAC stickered coins are far and few and I think that because of their asking price they don't sell often.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

 

CoinBuf,

 

It's good to know that you were accepted but I'm guessing CAC is accepting members on a first come, first served basis so the question is when did you send in your application?

 

Fishyone,

 

I hadn't heard that. That seems odd.

 

orifdoc,

 

Asking a significant premium and making a sale are two different things. Here in the Chicago area we have a coin show almost every Sunday. As a frequent attendee I see the same coins over and over. CAC stickered coins are far and few and I think that because of their asking price they don't sell often.

 

 

I think the same point you make about CAC coins can also be made with respect to non-CAC coins.Many coins are over-priced, period. It's often about the seller - some are reasonable and others are not.

[Conder101]

I think it would be really funny to get one coin in a slab, and send it to all of the stickering services. I want ALL the stickers on one slab.

Can't be done. Eagle eye only does FE and Indian head cents, WINGS only does non-US.

[RWB]

How about a new “Snicker Sticker?” It would have a laughing character on it or maybe Groucho Marx and his cigar. (“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.”)

 

Vigilante graders could surreptitiously apply it during lot viewing to auction coins they feel are overgraded.