Could/Should NGC Grade Capital Holder Coins ?

[TonerGuy]

Saw this on Ebay and thought... NGC could grade coins within a Capitol Holder and seal it like they do with GSAs...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-1976-Eisenhower-5-Proof-Silver-Dollars-Sealed-In-Capital-Plastics-Holder-/201006772191?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2eccefefdf

 

I love Capital Holders and how collections look in them... anyone else share this sentiment and would also like to see NGC leave the coins in those holders and also grade them ?

 

[Walkerfan]

It's a nice thought but then where do you draw the line? Know what I mean? People would want holders of all kinds to be graded then.

[MarkFeld]

No, if for no other reason, because they aren't sonically sealed.

[e1cnr]

bad idea - they could have been the sets since yesterday

 

who cares if you like what they look like

- maybe you should just keep them that way, spend money buying more sets rather than pay for grading of coind like the IKE set linked

[TonerGuy]

No, if for no other reason, because they aren't sonically sealed.

 

Is there no other way to seal them other then sonically that would be tamper resistant ?

[coinman_23885]

No, and in addition to the security reasons already mentioned, what would be the point? The extra plastic can make it more difficult to examine/photograph a coin; thus, in my opinion, this special treatment of plastic holders should be reserved for truly special issues like GSA Morgan/Peace Dollars if any.

[coinman_23885]

bad idea - they could have been the sets since yesterday

 

who cares if you like what they look like

- maybe you should just keep them that way, spend money buying more sets rather than pay for grading of coind like the IKE set linked

(thumbs u

[cpm9ball]

No!

 

Chris

[brg5658]

No, and in addition to the security reasons already mentioned, what would be the point? The extra plastic can make it more difficult to examine/photograph a coin; thus, in my opinion, this special treatment of plastic holders should be reserved for truly special issues like GSA Morgan/Peace Dollars if any.

 

No offense meant, but what's so "special" about the GSA issues? And, what makes them more special than (for example) the brown pack Eisenhower dollars? I'm just trying to understand why people think that a Morgan dollar in a plastic holder issued by the government is so special. The government has issued oodles of things in plastic holders...

 

In another thread on another forum I saw that PCGS now has a large holder into which fits the GSA holder for grading. Seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

 

[e1cnr]

There must be a market that needs to be filled

 

although I can understand stuff like this

[cpm9ball]

No, and in addition to the security reasons already mentioned, what would be the point? The extra plastic can make it more difficult to examine/photograph a coin; thus, in my opinion, this special treatment of plastic holders should be reserved for truly special issues like GSA Morgan/Peace Dollars if any.

 

No offense meant, but what's so "special" about the GSA issues? And, what makes them more special than (for example) the brown pack Eisenhower dollars? I'm just trying to understand why people think that a Morgan dollar in a plastic holder issued by the government is so special. The government has issued oodles of things in plastic holders...

 

In another thread on another forum I saw that PCGS now has a large holder into which fits the GSA holder for grading. Seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

 

 

I agree! I think too many collectors are getting hung up on the value of the OGP.....and COA.....and First Strike/Early Releases.....and.....and.....and.....!

 

If these things are so meaningful, then what happened to the 2005 American Legacy Sets?

 

Chris

[TonerGuy]

No, and in addition to the security reasons already mentioned, what would be the point? The extra plastic can make it more difficult to examine/photograph a coin; thus, in my opinion, this special treatment of plastic holders should be reserved for truly special issues like GSA Morgan/Peace Dollars if any.

 

NGC has certified and graded rolls of coins in plastic packaging...

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/services/certified-rolls.aspx

 

How is that different ? I dont think these are sonically sealed...

 

How are rolls of ASEs special ? And how are GSA issues of Peace/Morgans that special ?

[RWB]

Nope.

[coinman_23885]

No offense meant, but what's so "special" about the GSA issues? And, what makes them more special than (for example) the brown pack Eisenhower dollars? I'm just trying to understand why people think that a Morgan dollar in a plastic holder issued by the government is so special. The government has issued oodles of things in plastic holders...

 

I don't necessarily take the position that the GSA coins should be treated differently; rather, I am saying that I understand why some do and if "special" treatment is going to be awarded to some coins, it should be the GSA coins (and I could see arguments for an extension to all OGP, but I think the value difference that the GSA holders can add is probably the reason for the differential treatment compared to moderns).

 

The reason for this is because a difference in value of the GSA coins. A prime example is the 1878-CC which is worth $1,810 in MS65 according to the NGC/Numismedia Price Guide. A GSA example in the same grade lists at $5,840. Similarly, the non-capped die 1879-CC lists at $3,840 in MS60 and the GSA variant lists for $6,600 in the same grade. This trend applies to other dates as well. Although price guides are often wrong, the auction data (the last time I checked) supported this pricing disparity. Similarly, many common coins (Philadelphia and New Orleans minted Morgans come to mind) command a premium when encased in GSA plastic.

 

If the GSA provenance is going to command huge premiums for the "mystique," "history," or whatever else GSA collectors are attracted to, then I can see a collector wanting to preserve the coin and its original packaging as it left the hoard. This is especially true if that cost the collector an extra $4k (recognizing that this is due to the provenance but that the original packaging may add to the allure for some collectors, especially at those price levels).

[coinman_23885]

No, and in addition to the security reasons already mentioned, what would be the point? The extra plastic can make it more difficult to examine/photograph a coin; thus, in my opinion, this special treatment of plastic holders should be reserved for truly special issues like GSA Morgan/Peace Dollars if any.

 

NGC has certified and graded rolls of coins in plastic packaging...

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/services/certified-rolls.aspx

 

How is that different ? I dont think these are sonically sealed...

 

How are rolls of ASEs special ? And how are GSA issues of Peace/Morgans that special ?

 

Actually if you read the article you linked, you will see that each holder is "sonically sealed and tamper-evident," in addition to possessing other security features. The other holders you reference in the original post are not sealed, and placing layers of plastic on plastic detracts from the ability to examine a coin.

 

With this said, I am a bit surprised to see NGC encapsulating the rolls of ASE. It seems too gimmicky to me given that the market doesn't support a premium for these and appears unlikely to do so in the future. You also cannot see the obverse and reverse of every coin. I don't like it a bit.

[cpm9ball]

No offense meant, but what's so "special" about the GSA issues? And, what makes them more special than (for example) the brown pack Eisenhower dollars? I'm just trying to understand why people think that a Morgan dollar in a plastic holder issued by the government is so special. The government has issued oodles of things in plastic holders...

 

I don't necessarily take the position that the GSA coins should be treated differently; rather, I am saying that I understand why some do and if "special" treatment is going to be awarded to some coins, it should be the GSA coins (and I could see arguments for an extension to all OGP, but I think the value difference that the GSA holders can add is probably the reason for the differential treatment compared to moderns).

 

The reason for this is because a difference in value of the GSA coins. A prime example is the 1878-CC which is worth $1,810 in MS65 according to the NGC/Numismedia Price Guide. A GSA example in the same grade lists at $5,840. Similarly, the non-capped die 1879-CC lists at $3,840 in MS60 and the GSA variant lists for $6,600 in the same grade. This trend applies to other dates as well. Although price guides are often wrong, the auction data (the last time I checked) supported this pricing disparity. Similarly, many common coins (Philadelphia and New Orleans minted Morgans come to mind) command a premium when encased in GSA plastic.

 

If the GSA provenance is going to command huge premiums for the "mystique," "history," or whatever else GSA collectors are attracted to, then I can see a collector wanting to preserve the coin and its original packaging as it left the hoard. This is especially true if that cost the collector an extra $4k (recognizing that this is due to the provenance but that the original packaging may add to the allure for some collectors, especially at those price levels).

 

In that case, I will gladly sell you all of my GSA cases for the measly sum of $1,000 apiece, and you can use the rest of your "savings" to track down and buy the appropriate COA's.

 

Chris

[TonerGuy]

 

Actually if you read the article you linked, you will see that each holder is "sonically sealed and tamper-evident," in addition to possessing other security features. The other holders you reference in the original post are not sealed, and placing layers of plastic on plastic detracts from the ability to examine a coin.

 

With this said, I am a bit surprised to see NGC encapsulating the rolls of ASE. It seems too gimmicky to me given that the market doesn't support a premium for these and appears unlikely to do so in the future. You also cannot see the obverse and reverse of every coin. I don't like it a bit.

 

Ah I missed that line... Either way I still believe it can be done in a way that does give a high level of security to the set owner. If NGC can do GSAs - hard and soft plastic holders, it can be done with a Capital Holder. PCGS even developed a holder that encases the entire GSA.

 

At least with Capital Holders the coins can be removed, examined individually and replaced back into the holder for authentication and grading. Perhaps the types of Capital holders can be limited... Again like the multi-holders I think it has limited appeal (mostly to collectors) but I can see a larger market then sealed ASEs in plastic tubes.

 

Ultimately I would rather see NGC bring back the multi-holder option. Especially now that PCGS is offering something similar. But I certainly understand how that option is more expensive...

[RWB]

"Ultimately I would rather see NGC bring back the multi-holder option."

 

Good product although very expensive.

[Crohnos01]

Is the difference in the treatment of ASE rolls vs. the Capital holders that the ASE rolls are OGP whereas the Capitol holders are not? I could see a reluctance by NGC to take the liability of assigning a grade to something that MUST have been removed and possibly fingered while being placed in the holder. In the link where NGC discusses the ASE rolls, it mentions assigning a grade "if appropriate". That may be to do a CYA in the event they can tell the roll has been opened, coins played with, put back, and then sent in....just speculation on my part, but logical speculation I think.