Is this post mint damage or plancet defect ?

[TonerGuy]

And wouldnt either effect the grade ? Can someone explain how this JFK is an MS66 ?

 

Thanks in advance...

 

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/113617/1983-P-Kennedy-Half-Dollar-NGC-MS-66-Toned

[MarkFeld]

I don't see any obvious post-strike damage. Nor do I see why the coin doesn't deserve to grade MS66.

[bsshog40]

I don't see any obvious post-strike damage. Nor do I see why the coin doesn't deserve to grade MS66.

I think he may be referring to what looks like some die polishing issues?? Which I don't know a whole lot about.

[MarkFeld]

I don't see any obvious post-strike damage. Nor do I see why the coin doesn't deserve to grade MS66.

I think he may be referring to what looks like some die polishing issues?? Which I don't know a whole lot about.

 

That's what I saw and I don't think it would/should cause the coin to grade lower than it does.

[Keigwin]

There was plenty of maintenance to the dies that struck that planchet. But the parallel lines through the date and rim aren't polish lines. They rarely appear on devices because the Mint's tools don't normally reach the recessed areas. And not on rims, of course.

 

The lines resemble reducing roller scrapes like those sometimes found on coins from the early/mid 19th century, don't they? Obviously not here. But it is likely these were on the planchet and not obliterated in the strike. The rim and lower part of the numerals are weak.

 

Planchet damage should be considered when grading. NGC surely saw this and felt the coin deserved 66 nonetheless.

Lance.

 

[TonerGuy]

There was plenty of maintenance to the dies that struck that planchet. But the parallel lines through the date and rim aren't polish lines. They rarely appear on devices because the Mint's tools don't normally reach the recessed areas. And not on rims, of course.

 

The lines resemble reducing roller scrapes like those sometimes found on coins from the early/mid 19th century, don't they? Obviously not here. But it is likely these were on the planchet and not obliterated in the strike. The rim and lower part of the numerals are weak.

 

Planchet damage should be considered when grading. NGC surely saw this and felt the coin deserved 66 nonetheless.

Lance.

 

So it is a planchet defect and not die polishing ? It didnt look like to polish to me either. But it does affect the rims and therefore I would think that alone would get a coin net graded. Or is that just rim dings that does that ?

 

I once submitted a Jeff nickel to NGC with a cracked planchet that got net graded. Why would this be different ?

[MarkFeld]

There was plenty of maintenance to the dies that struck that planchet. But the parallel lines through the date and rim aren't polish lines. They rarely appear on devices because the Mint's tools don't normally reach the recessed areas. And not on rims, of course.

 

The lines resemble reducing roller scrapes like those sometimes found on coins from the early/mid 19th century, don't they? Obviously not here. But it is likely these were on the planchet and not obliterated in the strike. The rim and lower part of the numerals are weak.

 

Planchet damage should be considered when grading. NGC surely saw this and felt the coin deserved 66 nonetheless.

Lance.

 

So it is a planchet defect and not die polishing ? It didnt look like to polish to me either. But it does affect the rims and therefore I would think that alone would get a coin net graded. Or is that just rim dings that does that ?

 

I once submitted a Jeff nickel to NGC with a cracked planchet that got net graded. Why would this be different ?

 

I think Lance was describing (light) roller marks, which, for example, aren't especially rare on some Morgan Dollar issues. The numerous ones I have seen were graded - many of them 65 or higher. And those are very different from a cracked planchet.

[BillJones]

There was plenty of maintenance to the dies that struck that planchet. But the parallel lines through the date and rim aren't polish lines. They rarely appear on devices because the Mint's tools don't normally reach the recessed areas. And not on rims, of course.

 

The lines resemble reducing roller scrapes like those sometimes found on coins from the early/mid 19th century, don't they? Obviously not here. But it is likely these were on the planchet and not obliterated in the strike. The rim and lower part of the numerals are weak.

 

Planchet damage should be considered when grading. NGC surely saw this and felt the coin deserved 66 nonetheless.

Lance.

 

So it is a planchet defect and not die polishing ? It didnt look like to polish to me either. But it does affect the rims and therefore I would think that alone would get a coin net graded. Or is that just rim dings that does that ?

 

I once submitted a Jeff nickel to NGC with a cracked planchet that got net graded. Why would this be different ?

 

I think Lance was describing (light) roller marks, which, for example, aren't especially rare on some Morgan Dollar issues. The numerous ones I have seen were graded - many of them 65 or higher. And those are very different from a cracked planchet.

 

If I were in the market for this coin in the MS-66 grade, I would be disappointed with it if I bought this coin sight unseen. To me an MS-66 should be super attractive, and I don't find the roller issues on this coin attractive. It might of interest to someone who is looking for a "mint error" or a piece that displays mint procedures, but it would not appeal to me as a high eye appeal collector.

 

To me a cracked planchet is major problem. I have been" tire kicking" Humbert - Moffat $50 gold slugs in the upcoming auctions. I spotted one with a cracked planchet. I would have no interest in such a piece. Similarly there was a very rare (3 known) Hard Times token on the market years ago that was stuck on a cracked planchet. I rejected the piece out of hand because I simply don't want a token or coin with that type of problem. It would be my luck that the thing break in half after I bought it, and I'd be stuck with a two part token.

[RWB]

Ugly coin by almost any measure. The "grading companies" and I part company on this type of perversion. Same as calling a weakly struck 1921 Peace dollar "MS-67" becuase it lacks marks -- it also lacks details. Overall impression is much more important in the highest "uncirculated grades."

 

The Kennedy photo suggests overused dies and ones that have partially collapsed from use. The planchet might ve slightly beveled, also.

[WoodenJefferson]

I know how hard it is to find the 83-P's that are well struck, but this one looks like it was found out in the parking lot.

[TonerGuy]

So why does this coin get a net grade when the JFK doesnt...

 

This coin looks less "damaged" than the JFK and its a key date but it gets the a net holder...

 

I really am just trying to understand the differences...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-P-High-Relief-Peace-Dollar-Reverse-Planchet-Flaw-Error-NGC-UNC-Details-Coin-/191007163769?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2c78ea0579

 

Sorry if Im not seeing something obvious... Planchet defects are new to me...

 

 

[MarkFeld]

So why does this coin get a net grade when the JFK doesnt...

 

This coin looks less "damaged" than the JFK and its a key date but it gets the a net holder...

 

I really am just trying to understand the differences...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-P-High-Relief-Peace-Dollar-Reverse-Planchet-Flaw-Error-NGC-UNC-Details-Coin-/191007163769?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2c78ea0579

 

Sorry if Im not seeing something obvious... Planchet defects are new to me...

 

 

Roller marks are the result of intended actions on the part of mint employees. Flaws of the type which appear on the the Peace dollar are defects which result at the time the coin is struck.

 

It can also be a matter of the degree of the flaw.

[RWB]

The "roller marks" on your 1983 half dollar were on the strip before blanks were cut from it. The mint bought large rolls of prepared clad stock and cut the strips and blanks from the stock. In this instance, the defect was in the contractor-supplied material and not in the mint's rolling operation. (The last mint-made blanks were produced for the 1964 dated coinage.)

[MarkFeld]

The "roller marks" on your 1983 half dollar were on the strip before blanks were cut from it. The mint bought large rolls of prepared clad stock and cut the strips and blanks from the stock. In this instance, the defect was in the contractor-supplied material and not in the mint's rolling operation. (The last mint-made blanks were produced for the 1964 dated coinage.)

 

Thanks for correcting my misinformation (and very nicely, too). (thumbs u

[e1cnr]

That half dollar probably looks cool in hand. All the die polish on both sides would probably give it great booming luster and areas possibly prooflike.

 

It also looks to me like the planchet was tapered (from near the end of the roll before punching planchets). The reason I say that is on the obverse from roughly 5 through 7 o'clock and on the reverse near the ES of STATES, the roller marks did NOT get struck out. The rim and lettering is also weak in this area on the reverse.

[TonerGuy]

Okay so the JFK's damage is from something that happened before the striking of the coin and not because of a mistake made by a mint employee...

 

Is that not also true of the defect on the Peace $ or was that there because of a mistake by a mint employee(s) ?

 

Sorry I am not so well versed in the how coins are made and errors in general...

 

Thanks for everyone's input on this...

[Conder101]

(The last mint-made blanks were produced for the 1964 dated coinage.)

True for denominations of 10 cents or larger, the cent and five cent strip continued to be made and blanked at the mint until at least 1976. (I was at the Philadelphia mint in 76. They still had their foundry at that time and watched them pour ingots and roll the strip.)